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Catalan Independence & Spain's Future Economic Collapse
#41
http://atlanticsentinel.com/2015/01/inde...it-rating/
Sodomia delenda est

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#42
JL Wrote:Spain's troubles, Catalan independence, and insolvency, merged into one thread.
Yeah... Good luck trying to create a new thread. Likely to merged within a week! S2
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#43
(02-02-2015, 06:21 PM)Fredledingue Wrote:
JL Wrote:Spain's troubles, Catalan independence, and insolvency, merged into one thread.
Yeah... Good luck trying to create a new thread. Likely to merged within a week! S2

Hey, waste not, want not, eh Fred? S22
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Hillary Clinton Is Like Herpes, "She Wont Go Away" - Anna Paulina
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#44
Catalonia is finally starting to make it's move: Catalonia leader calls election framed as vote on independence.

Quote:Catalan leaders threw down a challenge to Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy on Monday by pressing ahead with early elections next month portrayed as a proxy for a vote on independence.

Catalan President Artur Mas, who has taken up the secession cause in recent years amid a surge in popular support, formally called the poll for Sept. 27, shortly before a Spanish general election due by year-end.
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Hillary Clinton Is Like Herpes, "She Wont Go Away" - Anna Paulina
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#45
Get ready for the big September 27th regional elections, and the future of what we know as Spain.

Hundreds of thousands of supporters gather for Catalan independence rally

http://cdn.rt.com/files/2015.09/original...8b45a9.jpg

My understanding is that it was over one million demonstrators.

[Image: watch?v=rUqEoR5X_EU]
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Hillary Clinton Is Like Herpes, "She Wont Go Away" - Anna Paulina
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#46
This is a realy huge rally! They might be sucessful in a foreseable future.
I didn't follow this, but I'm surprised.
Maybe the Migrant Crisis added to some sens of urgency with national preservation instincts.
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#47
The interesting thing is that Spain promises to put a halt to their aspirations. Are they going to resort to the use of force? That would just make things worse for Spain.
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Hillary Clinton Is Like Herpes, "She Wont Go Away" - Anna Paulina
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#48
Nearly 1.5 million in the streets

This is maybe the largest rally Europe has seen ever.
Yet, according to the article, Catalonians are deeply divided on the question. It's not sure that the independantists win. Like in Scottland they could end up with a 51% "against".

Some EU officials treathen to let Catalonia out of the EU if they split form Spain. But I don't think that it will happen like that. If things go smoothly and legally through a referendum, the EU will have to accept it, and will accept it. It would be insane to let a region out of the EU and the € zone just because the new country didn't fill the required forms properly.

Spaniards ar emaybe more expressive and go easier in the streets than in rainy Scottland...

I'll admit I'm not expert on this thematic. But no, I don't think there will be use of force.
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#49
I'd like to know what is the major motive of the Catalan movement.
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#50
From what I have read, they are not motivated so much by identity, by the "we are not spaniards" feeling.

These poeple are fed up with the corruption (or percieved corruption) of their central governement and think that change will be better. They want better public finance management.

Many Flamish in Belgium think like that too. Many Flamish are fed up with the traditionaly elected Socialist governement of the Wallons (the french speaking south). But some of them have also a strong Flamich nationalism feeling. Maybe more than Catalans.
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#51
What is that I keep saying Fred? The world is downsizing, as tribalism manifests itself. People want to have more of a say in what goes on in their lives, and the bigger the government, the less they can do this. I've been saying this since before this forum was begun.

All this "One World Government" that has Collectivists having erections all day long, isn't going to work out as they think. I hope I am alive so I can watch the People's Republic of China split into many little pieces. Or how about Russia? This century is going to be far more interesting than the last one, that's for certain. S22
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Hillary Clinton Is Like Herpes, "She Wont Go Away" - Anna Paulina
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#52
I dunno... About "The world is downsizing, as tribalism manifests itself", I mean. The world gets smaller because communication broadens the scope of what people see and hear. It used to be a man might never travel over his own small horizon. Now, that horizon comes to him. Sure, his family and village may have always been everything to him, but suddenly he understands that there are outside ideas and people who really exist. Some can make his life better, and some can make it worse - so he must start to look at them and see what they are about.

It is hard to maintain an insular philosophy when the outside world becomes evident.

The one thing I hope for, is something to overcome the tribalism and allow different peoples to draw together. Nothing focuses the mind better than knowing you are about to die, and nothing fuses people together better than you all face the same fate.

Maybe it's just a winnowing process... As progressive collectivism destroys more and more, the alternative and more successful ideas gain ascendance. It may take an invasion from outer space to draw everyone together, but as the world gets smaller, it will eventually happen.
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#53
Ok, how about "groupism" or perhaps "entities"? As for "tribalism", that does not necessarily mean ethnic tribalism. The point is that as we act globally, we think locally. And the smaller the group, or entity, the more individual power the individual possesses. That is why countries are splitting up and the size is smaller.
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Hillary Clinton Is Like Herpes, "She Wont Go Away" - Anna Paulina
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#54
Yes, countries are splitting up because the size is smaller. This is because the groups or entities have more knowledge at their disposal to confront the issues that concern them. For the nonce, those controlling regimes are still in charge, but are becoming less so. The end result will be the individuals uniting in such a way to challenge the old ways. As new groups solidify, they will replace the old. Hopefully, these new groups will have truth to anchor them together because of the rise of intercommunication. The old regimes lie and disinform to maintain power, but that strategy fails as communication wins in the end.

The real reason collectivism is bad is because it is power trying to maintain itself, rather than people coming together. One is bad - the other is good. The saving grace is in the spread of truth to overwhelm disinformation.
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#55
There are a lot of happy pro-secession voters in Catalonia tonight. Now, if only they can make it all work to their favor.

SPAIN: PRO-SECESSION PARTIES IN CATALONIA WIN LANDMARK VOTE
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Hillary Clinton Is Like Herpes, "She Wont Go Away" - Anna Paulina
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#56
Be interesting to see how Madrid and the EU react.
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#57
React to what? Nothing will happen.
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#58
One more step closer.

CATALAN LAWMAKERS APPROVE PLAN FOR SECESSION FROM SPAIN
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Hillary Clinton Is Like Herpes, "She Wont Go Away" - Anna Paulina
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#59
They seem very decided to go through. Eventualy it will happen. It still depends on the result of the referendum. If they win I hope it will go peacefuly.

Interresting that the radicals are against austerity. They think that once independant they will be able to borrow and spend more? The goofs!
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#60
Spain is Very concerned about their gravy train province wanting a divorce.

Spain asks top court to suspend Catalonia secession motion
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Hillary Clinton Is Like Herpes, "She Wont Go Away" - Anna Paulina
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