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economic collapse: How Will It Affect Us?
#1
Will it happen? What are your opinions?
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#2
Yes, its really, really going to happen. When? No idea. But one thing is certain: the longer this is strung out, the worse it will be.

I don't know if you are still a registered Jackass, or not, but MacDaddy is doing his utmost to ruin things, in order to usher in the new Collectivist Euro-Socialist state. And if that means a major depression, he's all for it. Dumbasses are helping out, but not for that extreme. They're just run by Progressive elements within that wing of the Big Government Party.

But to answer your question, its going to happen, and it will be every bit as bad as the Great Depression.

The most important thing is not if, but how long it will last and how bad it will be. If things go along as they have been, and another Jackass, or Big Government Dumbass gets elected, think in terms of a 'Decade'.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
Hillary Clinton Is Like Herpes, "She Wont Go Away" - Anna Paulina
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#3
Mostly concurring with the above.

Sure it is going to happen, sure cannot say when, sure John is correct -- the more it is delayed the worse it will be. And I will agree with JohnL about McDaddy.

It will be worse than Great Depression too, because the US is losing international positions that did not matter much in the 1930s.

The big question: is it a bad thing or a good thing? Not for the US, but for the humanity as a whole.... I think good. S6

Anyway, come 2016 I'm voting for a Demonrat.
Sodomia delenda est

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#4
how can one prepare?
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#5
(05-14-2014, 02:13 AM)Anonymous24 Wrote: how can one prepare?

Going after Russian and Saudi gas and oil export customers would be a step in the right direction.
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#6
I don't buy the collapse view at all until the dollar is not the international currency. When it isn't then we have insurmountable problems and this will not be a nice place to live.
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#7
(05-19-2014, 12:56 PM)Palladin Wrote: I don't buy the collapse view at all until the dollar is not the international currency. When it isn't then we have insurmountable problems and this will not be a nice place to live.

With the obvious collapse of the EURO & the dissolution of the European Union & talk from titans of banking & industry regarding the collapse of China I think the USA and the dollar are the prudent options.
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#8
I tend to agree here with Palladin and Paul. Whatever weakness you can indentify in the US dollar, there is no better alternative, except maybe gold. But that is not used as a common currency. The Euro has the major inherent weakness of being a shared currency among many different nations. The USA has the advantage of being the currency of one nation that mostly speaks the same language. China may have a larger population, but their economic base and infrastructure still have many years of catching up to do before they can equal the US. Plus communist governments are not known for their ability to generate rapid growth. Command economies are best at producing superficial growth, but beneath the surface are always headed in a downward spiral--the same kind of downward spiral that did in the Soviet Union. Command economics are actually based on cheating, and cheating only works for so long. Of course, what the US does with its massive federal debt and continuing deficits is a kind of cheating, too. The question is which kind of cheating can keep the pyramid scheme going the longest--European, US, or Chinese. Let's face it. If you can, buy gold!
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#9
(05-19-2014, 01:36 PM)Ron Lambert Wrote: buy gold!

Tangible assets do not base macro-economic growth. Speculation is the basis of growth. Economics is nebulous. Gold, real-estate & tulips were/are thought to be tangible but upon inspection of history are also found to be also speculative.
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#10
Quote:Speculation is the basis of growth.

One of the modern fallacies, from the same league as AGW or family-friendly sodomy.

The US' economy is speculation-based. Works for a while, but eventually a De-industrialized country cannot compete.

Ron Wrote:Whatever weakness you can indentify in the US dollar, there is no better alternative
.

At the moment, but it is changing....

Quote:the U.S. dollar remains the top global reserve currency, involving 33% of global foreign exchange holdings at the end of 2013, according to the IMF. It was, however, at 55% in 2000.
(source: The Birth of a Eurasian Century -- an interesting article in itself.)
Sodomia delenda est

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#11
Thing is, when you pronounce collapse on the US economy, you are not considering the problems all others face. We have some strengths that no other nation has.

Our government is working to destroy these strengths, such as individual entrepreneurship, but, it's still more latent here than all other states combined.

I am no longer a "yank" patriotically, but, facts are facts, it is not the Nipponese, Russians,Chinese or Indians coming up with technical advancements daily, it is still Americans.

We have a level of physical security no one else has except other states in the Americas.

We still do not have the internal problems India, Russia and China face such as Marxist insurgencies, Islamic unrest, religious warfare,etc. We are not as physically "dead" as all European states demographically because of immigration(this is coming to a close out though as Mexicans have now stopped having kids).

As awful as I think the US is compared to 40 years back, we're still way ahead of the closest competitor I would say.

Brazil is an up and comer and they are about to have a major revolt there over the way the state has acted vis a vis the people and their soccer world cup status. India is sick with their Hindu nationalism stupidity and caste system which will always be a break on their greatness.

China may replace us, but, until the dollar is no longer the big dog, we're not going anywhere fast economically. If idiots like Bush JR & Obama continue to manage the state, we'll be like France or Spain with long term unemployment , which is still not "collapse" status.

Plus, we have most of Europe hanging onto us like little dogs, so in a way they help us out with trade and investment most don't have. Example, about all the auto factories European builders built have been over here in the last decade.
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#12
Like William, I am much more into Classical Economics than the rest of you. And based on where I have been taught, a country cannot continue to get away with squandering its resources the way we have been doing.

And I don't care what the Keynesian Superstition tells us, eventually we are going to have to pay the piper for all this debt. Its coming, and the longer we play this Superstition game, the worse it is going to be.

If you don't believe we are going to have to pay the piper, I don't care. But you mark my words, when the collapse comes, LOOK OUT! And printing/digitizing money is not going to be the answer. Mark my words folks. You can talk about how we are not going to get our testicles in a vise all you wise. But I don't want to hear any of you squealing and weeping over your crushed nuts when it does.

The only thing I hope comes out of all this stupidity is that Keynesian economics finally meets its demise. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
Hillary Clinton Is Like Herpes, "She Wont Go Away" - Anna Paulina
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#13
(05-19-2014, 04:29 PM)Palladin Wrote: Thing is, when you pronounce collapse on the US economy, you are not considering the problems all others face. We have some strengths that no other nation has.

Our government is working to destroy these strengths, such as individual entrepreneurship, but, it's still more latent here than all other states combined.

I am no longer a "yank" patriotically, but, facts are facts, it is not the Nipponese, Russians,Chinese or Indians coming up with technical advancements daily, it is still Americans.

We have a level of physical security no one else has except other states in the Americas.

We still do not have the internal problems India, Russia and China face such as Marxist insurgencies, Islamic unrest, religious warfare,etc. We are not as physically "dead" as all European states demographically because of immigration(this is coming to a close out though as Mexicans have now stopped having kids).

As awful as I think the US is compared to 40 years back, we're still way ahead of the closest competitor I would say.

Brazil is an up and comer and they are about to have a major revolt there over the way the state has acted vis a vis the people and their soccer world cup status. India is sick with their Hindu nationalism stupidity and caste system which will always be a break on their greatness.

China may replace us, but, until the dollar is no longer the big dog, we're not going anywhere fast economically. If idiots like Bush JR & Obama continue to manage the state, we'll be like France or Spain with long term unemployment , which is still not "collapse" status.

Plus, we have most of Europe hanging onto us like little dogs, so in a way they help us out with trade and investment most don't have. Example, about all the auto factories European builders built have been over here in the last decade.

^I think you nail down the issues nicely.
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#14
John,

There are more factors than ideology when investing. The US can get away with tons of stupidity others can't.

Not be cause we're "exceptional" either. Cause of where we live and the people who came here to form the nation were a tad more adventurous than those who didn't.
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#15
Patrick, you have a government related job at ORNL, which you will not lose when the collapse occurs. Good for you. But I don't, and the overwhelming majority of Americans don't either.

And even if we miraculously don't collapse, we will slowly stagnate, because of our terrible debt to income relationship. I don't care what the Keynesians tell us. We cannot continue to borrow and spend like there is no tomorrow. This is Common Sense 101.

Tell you what. If this does occur, I want you to come here and tell me that you were wrong. And crazy as I am, I was right, ok? The only problem is that I won't be laughing along with you.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
Hillary Clinton Is Like Herpes, "She Wont Go Away" - Anna Paulina
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#16
Quote:you have a government related job at ORNL, which you will not lose when the collapse occurs

I would not be so sure about the sacredness of government jobs.

It is probably true that the government will not be firing its workers (half the population btw) for some time, but hyperinflation will erase the value of the salaries quickly. People running small essential businesses may be in the best position to survive economically (if they survive the crime wave).
Sodomia delenda est

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#17
John,



I don't see the end of the world like you do, what difference does it make where I work? Why does it make you mad I don't see us all dying in a blaze of sh.it?

People just like you have been predicting the same end of the world scenario now for a century. You just don't have the ability to see beyond your locked in stone world view.



Why hasn't the UK sunk in the ocean already, they made 10X the errors we've made and for 2X as long, too. Still there, still prosperous, not going anywhere.
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#18
What end of the world Patrick? I believe you are using extremes here to make your point. I'm talking about an economic collapse, not the end of things. You must be thinking of some other mother here. S13
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
Hillary Clinton Is Like Herpes, "She Wont Go Away" - Anna Paulina
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#19
(05-19-2014, 04:58 PM)John L Wrote: .... a country cannot continue to get away with squandering its resources the way we have been doing.

Squandering which resources? The dollar as the world's reserve currency is more of an economic advantage than an actual resource. I'm not completely certain that wealth redistribution in all of it's ugly nasty little insidious forms (bank bailouts, food stamps ... and the absolute worst ... inflation) completely 'destroys' capital ... it's a painful inefficiency, but mostly capital finds a way toward self preservation. The problem is that self preservation doesn't lead to growth. We've bought into the low interest rates for eternity myth more than ever ... Electricite de France is selling 100 year bonds!! As for more traditional resources ... we've barely begun to tap them ... energy development is doing great, but because it's only occurring on private lands ... can you imagine what we would be producing if our government wasn't conducting a war on carbon? Copper development in this country effectively shut down in the '80s ... sure we're extracting from existing reserves, but nobody is really breaking any ground to develop new ones ... same with steel. Being stuck in idle and not realizing our potential as a nation is not the same as "squandering resources". Most of our resources will still be around when somebody finally manages to turn off the stupid switch. I disagree with the notion of a 'collapse' ... it will be more of a long tedious slide. I'll agree that, at least for now, we are squandering our standard of living ... and the lives of a lot of young people that will never, gain skills or be very productive. But the fact is that we won't go back to being wealthy and prosperous until people go back to thinking that wealth and prosperity are 'good' ... and right now we are being governed by people who obviously don't believe that. Here is their template for a 'proper' nation's conduct.
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard."
-- Henry Mencken
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#20
What I was referring to was monetary resources. Its a thing called Debt! And that is definitely resources of credit that we are handing to our children and grandchildren. You knew what I meant Jack. S14

As for NK, have you ever been stationed there? I have and in the south part, it really, really gets cold in the winter. NKorea is even worse. They should be praying to Karl Marx that AGW is real.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
Hillary Clinton Is Like Herpes, "She Wont Go Away" - Anna Paulina
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