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economic collapse: How Will It Affect Us?
I think Jude was very clear on cutting spending and cutting deficits and checking punitive taxes to balance the budget and take the economy into a positive direction. Isn't that the definition of making the economy roar?

How bond and stock investment works is something altogether different. Many analysts complain about the specifics and technical aspects of both. All I'm saying that an economy that is growing at five percent or more allows both investors to prosper.
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Any sort of 'normal' economy is impossible under Obama. Now that we've all clarified FUD as a term ... that's the crux of it. To start new businesses, to create new jobs, to take any sort of risk ... the purchase of capital equipment, etc., requires some degree of confidence. I wouldn't call what Bill is describing as a 'roaring' economy ... I'd call it a return to a normal economy ... one that does not require ZIRP in order to barely function for the last seven years. When, ever, in our history has capital in the form of cash actually had negative value? ... how did bludgeoning 'savers' ... not investors ... 'savors' become a standard practice?? It's unheard of ... it's completely stupid.

I totally agree with Bill on this. We could put Barney the Purple Dinosaur in the White House ... and the only direction for our economy would be UP.
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard."
-- Henry Mencken
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(08-29-2015, 10:43 PM)WmLambert Wrote: I think Jude was very clear on cutting spending and cutting deficits and checking punitive taxes to balance the budget and take the economy into a positive direction. Isn't that the definition of making the economy roar?

How bond and stock investment works is something altogether different. Many analysts complain about the specifics and technical aspects of both. All I'm saying that an economy that is growing at five percent or more allows both investors to prosper.

Well then, perhaps you can show me some links. And not just in passing. I'll say again, this is where the Austrians have it all over the Supply-Siders. Just remember, I cut my teeth on S-S with Uncle Jude's courses at SS University.

I'm now a von Heyak follower, just as is Dr. Walter E. Williams.
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Hillary Clinton Is Like Herpes, "She Wont Go Away" - Anna Paulina
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(08-30-2015, 12:11 AM)mr_yak Wrote: I totally agree with Bill on this. We could put Barney the Purple Dinosaur in the White House ... and the only direction for our economy would be UP.

But that is not what Bill was talking about. He was talking about a "Roaring Economy". That can only occur when we begin to get our 'Fiscal' and 'Monetary' house in order. We are going to be starting out, having dug ourselves in such a hole, that we may never be able to completely recover. And both wings of that party are to blame here.
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Hillary Clinton Is Like Herpes, "She Wont Go Away" - Anna Paulina
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(08-30-2015, 12:31 AM)John L Wrote: ...He was talking about a "Roaring Economy". That can only occur when we begin to get our 'Fiscal' and 'Monetary' house in order. We are going to be starting out, having dug ourselves in such a hole, that we may never be able to completely recover. And both wings of that party are to blame here.

I think this all started with Fredledingue mentioning that the Fed was going to raise interest rates. It looked as if everyone was assuming such a thing was just a ruse by government to control the economy. In a way it is, because they've boxed themselves into a corner trying to keep stocks high but keeping bonds worthless and injuring that part of the investment community. My point was that the only way to allow the bond investors to regain some profits is if the economy as a whole is doing good enough to handle it while the stock investors don't want to run and hide. That comes with an economy well over 3-4% growth. After that point is reached, both investments can share the same market and bring in income for their investors.

I never said a roaring economy is caused by controlling either the Fed interest rates or some stock manipulation. It is obviously the other way around.

FUD is a motivating factor, for sure. Both Jude and the Austrians are right in that. But what comes first is like the chicken and the egg. I guarantee, if someone politically slaps down the EPA, as an example, it would affect the economy instantly. Same thing for many actions that puts fear into Progressives. Plow the ground and the harvest will be huge.
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Bill, the Fed didn't box itself into a corner willingly. It was trying to keep things running after this president, and the last one, managed to keep spending far more than we made. Granted, McDaddy is the biggest offender, but living beyond one's means it the main cause. We're Broke! And all the Fed is doing has been to just postpone the inevitable.

As for my mentioning the "roaring economy" I just mentioned that you stated that above. I never mentioned it being caused by "controlling either the Fed interest rates, or stock manipulation". Must be some other Mother said that. I'm just saying that unless we begin to get our fiscal and monetary house in order, we will continue to creep along. We really need a constitutional balanced budget amendment which will force All presidents and congress to live frugally. Otherwise....................................

Oh, and get rid of that stupid Keynesian Superstition.
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Hillary Clinton Is Like Herpes, "She Wont Go Away" - Anna Paulina
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Bill, I had a long reply made up, but it got deleted, when I accidentally screwed the pooch. I'll just let it go at that. S11
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Hillary Clinton Is Like Herpes, "She Wont Go Away" - Anna Paulina
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Thanks, John. I'll just mention that Bush 43 had actually brought down the deficit and was actually bringing down the total cost of government when the Dems took over. The problem then was it was not less spending that was doing that, but still too much spending coupled with an economy that could cover it.

The Dems created that down economy on purpose in order to blame it on the administration. They also worked to squander whatever they could and then crucify the administration for not spending enough. When Obama took over, the strategy was to let the economy get back to where it was - but they did exactly the opposite of what was necessary to do that, and made it worse. A fifth-grader in charge could have done nothing and the economy could have recovered. Obama, of course, is not that bright, and did nothing right. He thought the economy would recover on its own with him in charge, even when throwing on the brakes with attacks on coal and big oil.

Obama paralleled Jude in one particular, but never really comprehended what it meant. Jude said the economy could self-correct almost instantly. He was asked how fast, and he said as fast as someone who looks down and sees a twenty dollar bill on the ground could bend over and pick it up. I think Jude was putting much credence on the power of tax cuts via the Laffer Curve.

Taking care of bureaucratic grasping and punitive taxes and regulations, on top of cutting spending could make the economy explode. Bush 43 thought he could grow government and still keep in the black, but it was not optimum and relied on bipartisanship and the Dems not sabotaging everything. They did, and his plans couldn't work.

Remember in Texas, as governor, Bush worked with Dems and his state did prosper. His first term as President, he tried that, and at least half of it was truly bipartisan, and he worked to establish his own strategies, while giving the Dems many of their ages-old long-term dreams, that they could never accomplish themselves. (Sorta like only Nixon could open China.) The paradigm shift occurred when the Dems started losing the things that they held as their own campaign planks. He had Democrats in key positions in committees working on things they desperately wanted, so they could share in the successes. The Democrat uber alles party leaders realized they had nothing to run on in the future with Bush working both sides of the aisle and still cutting the debt and deficit. In a one week period, all Democrat committee participants resigned their positions and left all these working committees. The next week, the adversarial attacks began, and economic sabotage leaped into full gear.

This first-term Bush strategy is part of the impetus of eliitist GOP leaders, like Boehner. They thought that bipartisanship was a goal in itself. They honestly think themselves noble in trying to do things that profit both Left and Right and still keep the economy going. The problem, of course, is that the Dems don't want that to ever occur, because there is no noble to raw power politics. The pragmatists, like Clinton, always argued the ends justifies the means, and never missed a chance to shoot down their opponents.

I guess what I'm saying is that our economy is so powerful, that if left alone, it will grow and strengthen. Even with a drag on that growth by collectivists and nanny-staters, the economy can still grow, just not as well. I'm a purist and want the best, not mediocrity. The problem is that it is always hard to sell extreme behavior if less extreme behavior is still acceptable to the middle-of-the-roaders.
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Obama is by far the worst of the lot. However the GOP, while not as bad, have also kept getting us further in debt. In fact the only time when we actually produced a surplus lately is when there was a Jackass president(Bubba), and a Dumbass congress. That may have been the best mix, but by just looking at the times when there were president and congress held by one party only, the results are dismal. This could be expected with Jackasses. But Junior, is still a loser there.

[Image: 45229-land-Baseline1-yellow.png]

We definitely need a constitutional amendment that requires a balanced budget. But you will never get this out of either wing of the Big Government Party. Sorry Bill, but we really do need a true Second Party that is actually dedicated to Individual Liberty, Fiscal responsibility, and Limited government. We get neither from either of those two wings, and you can defend the Dumbasses all you wish, but it just makes you look foolish at best. And "The Donald" ain't going to accomplish anything for all the swooning mass of 'so called' Conservatives, who are hypnotized his lofty promises, and crude behavior. Gah
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Hillary Clinton Is Like Herpes, "She Wont Go Away" - Anna Paulina
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(08-30-2015, 07:58 PM)WmLambert Wrote: I think this all started with Fredledingue mentioning that the Fed was going to raise interest rates. It looked as if everyone was assuming such a thing was just a ruse by government to control the economy.

It's not a ruse to control the economy. It's a ruse to reinforce the 'illusion' that the F'ed (or the government) has the capacity control the economy.

The Kool Aid being served is that everything is great. Therefore, things should 'naturally' return to an environment in which the simple act of holding cash in simple instruments like CDs is punished by an effective 2-3% penalty need no longer apply. You can't make the former argument in the midst of a policy in which savers are flayed at the alter of the "velocity of money". If things are so great, money should be able to maintain it's own velocity. If they aren't then it remains necessary to torture 'savers'. Pick one or the other ... you can't have both ... although the F'ed has been pretending it for at least four years. The idea of backing out of ZIRP has been trotted out and withdrawn since 2011 ... with no progress made to date. Go figure? It's hard to imagine that anyone takes them seriously. If they can't even take the meager, half-assed effort of stepping up by a measly 25 basis points or so ... within the year, their credibility moves even further into crapper ... which is a horrible and ironic place to store the F'ed's most critical 'ass'et.
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard."
-- Henry Mencken
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So, how are things headed for the future? If this is the case, then things could really be in for a rough time.

McDonald's franchisees say the brand is in a 'deep depression' and 'facing its final days'

Quote:McDonald's franchisees believe the brand is in a "deep depression" and could be facing its "final days," according to a new survey.

"We are in the throes of a deep depression, and nothing is changing," one franchisee wrote in response to the survey by Nomura analyst Mark Kalinowski. "Probably 30% of operators are insolvent."

Another wrote, "The CEO is sowing the seeds of our demise. We are a quick-serve fast-food restaurant, not a fast casual like Five Guys or Chipotle. The system may be facing its final days."

I have known that the Big Mac was in some trouble, but not this much. If, no not if but when, the economy crashes Big Time, McDonalds, may be gone.
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Hillary Clinton Is Like Herpes, "She Wont Go Away" - Anna Paulina
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Something you need to know is southern democrats are really Republicans,so for Bush to have succeeded in "working with democrats" was simple.

The only differences I can discern are the southern democrat is pro union (not pro public, just pro private union) and the GOP is inveterately hostile to labor unions.
The GOP would be wise to take a more neutral stance instead of being the suck boy for uber wealth, these uber wealthy Americans are using us like borrowed mules, the second their wealth is better protected by a left wing agenda like ObamaCare or Burlington Northern shipping Canadian oil here instead of a pipeline, BYE BYE!
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You are thinking that because basically Democrats and Republicans(elites anyway) are all of the same party: the Big Government Party.
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Hillary Clinton Is Like Herpes, "She Wont Go Away" - Anna Paulina
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Anymore they appear to be. I read once where the democrats "made their peace" with corporations in the 1970s.

I am not for any leftist taxation/regulatory regimes, but, it is not wise to side with capital at every turn when you harm average people.

"What is good for GM is good for America" is only partially valid and sometimes destructive since they learned how to buy state agents so well.

GOP voters would be wise to view every decision through a more neutral filter in the future, USA based corporations would as likely make cash building stalags and gulags for "revolutionaries" as B-52s to win the cold war, this is a fact.
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The Republican Party cannot be reformed as the base would like. Its just impossible, short going in with guns, pitchforks and rope. And that will never be allowed, so the ruling elites are there for the duration.

It has to be replaced. Sorry Bill, you can make all the excuses you want, but it is never going to happen. This entire thing will just keep on going along, and getting progressively worse, until enough finally do something about it.

I've already seen a subtle, but important shift over at Breitbart. Used to be when I would down the DOP, there would be all sorts of members just castigating the living hell out of me. Now, not a single peep, and on top if that I get lots of thumbs up ratings for my saying so. The Republicans are about out of slack. If a few big names leave the party, there will be a HUGE stampede to the exit door. The Law of Diminishing Returns has long past been reached.
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Hillary Clinton Is Like Herpes, "She Wont Go Away" - Anna Paulina
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Sorry, John. Just saying something does not make it so. History shows that there is only one way to get the results you are looking for, and that does mean fixing the party from what it is now into what you want it to be. Just saying that an unsuccessful thing will just keep going along is nonsensical. The Whigs were replaced by the Republican Party because it didn't just keep going along. The Republican Party of Lincoln already existed within the Democrat-Republican Party, and the Whigs were just too unnatural to last. It was based on conflicting issues and Pragmatic attempts to ignore differences. The Democrat-Republican Party was the single Party, and its division into two is what started the current two-party system.

Since then, all the changes in either party happened by reforms from within.

If the claim is that monied interests are all that secures the GOP as run by the Boehner elites (What is often known as Rockefeller Republicans) then think about the fact that those same monied interests are what also drive the Democrats. What would the current Democrat system look like without George Soros?

No, the only answer is a grass-roots movement that uplifts the issues and goals we want which then becomes the GOP. Most Parties mature around a few Charismatic leaders, but that party (Historically, every third party) will disappear unless the issues are mutual.

There will oftentimes be bad cyclic adventurism by people who want the Constitutionally-limited Republic to fail. There will also always be the counterbalance, which I happen to think is more logical and stronger than the alternative, and will always prevail in the long run.

The problem is, that it takes an effort, and the faith that hard work will be rewarded.
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