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economic collapse: How Will It Affect Us?
#41
(06-02-2014, 10:47 PM)Gunnen4u Wrote: Prepare to kill people.

I think that's thinly covered in #4. Too subtle? Some people can't do that. That's covered in #5 ... as in what me worry?

[Image: Alfred_E_Neuman.jpg]

Seriously, better know how to #2 regardless of how you handle the bad guys. If you starve or shit your guts out with giardia ... you'll be just as dead as any pacifist.
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard."
-- Henry Mencken
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#42
There was an Argentinian blogger who wrote a couple of books even on how to survive economic meltdowns such as those that have racked Argentina several times. It was disturbing in a way how civilized man will have to alter their natures to cope. However, also surprising was how society continued to function in a way after adjusting itself to a new reality.

Also, stockpile condoms, because if you have your shit together and come up as relatively successful, there will be plenty of trading vagina for a place to sleep and a meal. Basically, gender roles and relations revert to that of more quaint times.
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#43
I'm still not certain just where to place this: either here or at the "The Coming Economic Insolvency" thread. In fact, both threads really belong together as one.

Anyway, we have some wonderful news about this last quarter. The economy shrank 2.9%. But not to worry, because the downturn was the result of an unusually bad winter.

But wait! I thought we were in the middle of Climate Change: i.e. global warming. How is this possible? And note the BBC picture showing last winter in order to buttress the Big Lie.

It will be interesting to see what the next quarter has to show us. S18
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Hillary Clinton Is Like Herpes, "She Wont Go Away" - Anna Paulina
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#44
(06-28-2014, 01:07 AM)Anonymous24 Wrote: This one is specifically about how society will change.

Before we go into this, we all really need to know where you are now coming from. I've noticed quite a change in your postings over the last few years, even though you have been here much less.

What is your political leaning now? How do you view the world politically and economically? If you are going to get the best reply we need to have a pretty good understanding what you are really looking for.

For instance, most of us here, with a few exceptions, are sick and tired of all this meddling and sticking our noses into other's business. We've become more C.Liberal/Libertarian in our thinking. We just want government out of our homes, out of our business, and out of other people's business. Its a total waste of time, resources, lives, and we are squandering our children's heritage, your included.
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Hillary Clinton Is Like Herpes, "She Wont Go Away" - Anna Paulina
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#45
I find this piece by Nick Hanauer to be a waking moment to all the super rich out there to be right on the spot. You will find that Nick pulls no punches on the pachyderms or the jackasses on doing what's right. It's a short read.

The Pitchforks Are Coming for... Us Plutocrats

Quote:This is, in other words, an economic approach that can unite left and right. Perhaps that’s one reason the right is beginning, inexorably, to wake up to this reality as well. Even Republicans as diverse as Mitt Romney and Rick Santorum recently came out in favor of raising the minimum wage, in defiance of the Republicans in Congress.

***

One thing we can agree on—I’m sure of this—is that the change isn’t going to start in Washington. Thinking is stale, arguments even more so. On both sides.

But the way I see it, that’s all right. Most major social movements have seen their earliest victories at the state and municipal levels. The fight over the eight-hour workday, which ended in Washington, D.C., in 1938, began in places like Illinois and Massachusetts in the late 1800s. The movement for social security began in California in the 1930s. Even the Affordable Health Care Act—Obamacare—would have been hard to imagine without Mitt Romney’s model in Massachusetts to lead the way.

Sadly, no Republicans and few Democrats get this. President Obama doesn’t seem to either, though his heart is in the right place. In his State of the Union speech this year, he mentioned the need for a higher minimum wage but failed to make the case that less inequality and a renewed middle class would promote faster economic growth. Instead, the arguments we hear from most Democrats are the same old social-justice claims. The only reason to help workers is because we feel sorry for them. These fairness arguments feed right into every stereotype of Obama and the Democrats as bleeding hearts. Republicans say growth. Democrats say fairness—and lose every time.

But just because the two parties in Washington haven’t figured it out yet doesn’t mean we rich folks can just keep going. The conversation is already changing, even if the billionaires aren’t onto it. I know what you think: You think that Occupy Wall Street and all the other capitalism-is-the-problem protesters disappeared without a trace. But that’s not true. Of course, it’s hard to get people to sleep in a park in the cause of social justice. But the protests we had in the wake of the 2008 financial crisis really did help to change the debate in this country from death panels and debt ceilings to inequality.

It’s just that so many of you plutocrats didn’t get the message.

Dear 1%ers, many of our fellow citizens are starting to believe that capitalism itself is the problem. I disagree, and I’m sure you do too. Capitalism, when well managed, is the greatest social technology ever invented to create prosperity in human societies. But capitalism left unchecked tends toward concentration and collapse. It can be managed either to benefit the few in the near term or the many in the long term. The work of democracies is to bend it to the latter. That is why investments in the middle class work. And tax breaks for rich people like us don’t. Balancing the power of workers and billionaires by raising the minimum wage isn’t bad for capitalism. It’s an indispensable tool smart capitalists use to make capitalism stable and sustainable. And no one has a bigger stake in that than zillionaires like us.

The oldest and most important conflict in human societies is the battle over the concentration of wealth and power. The folks like us at the top have always told those at the bottom that our respective positions are righteous and good for all. Historically, we called that divine right. Today we have trickle-down economics.

What nonsense this is. Am I really such a superior person? Do I belong at the center of the moral as well as economic universe? Do you?

My family, the Hanauers, started in Germany selling feathers and pillows. They got chased out of Germany by Hitler and ended up in Seattle owning another pillow company. Three generations later, I benefited from that. Then I got as lucky as a person could possibly get in the Internet age by having a buddy in Seattle named Bezos. I look at the average Joe on the street, and I say, “There but for the grace of Jeff go I.” Even the best of us, in the worst of circumstances, are barefoot, standing by a dirt road, selling fruit. We should never forget that, or forget that the United States of America and its middle class made us, rather than the other way around.

Or we could sit back, do nothing, enjoy our yachts. And wait for the pitchforks.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2...z35yTgSuwF
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#46
Right here is where this fellow shows his ignorance, and Collectivist proclivity.

Quote:Dear 1%ers, many of our fellow citizens are starting to believe that capitalism itself is the problem. I disagree, and I’m sure you do too. Capitalism, when well managed, is the greatest social technology ever invented to create prosperity in human societies. But capitalism left unchecked tends toward concentration and collapse. It can be managed either to benefit the few in the near term or the many in the long term. The work of democracies is to bend it to the latter. That is why investments in the middle class work. And tax breaks for rich people like us don’t. Balancing the power of workers and billionaires by raising the minimum wage isn’t bad for capitalism. It’s an indispensable tool smart capitalists use to make capitalism stable and sustainable. And no one has a bigger stake in that than zillionaires like us.

Here is what he is doing all at once: He is promoting Fascism, and also scorning it, all in one paragraph. He wants an appearance of capitalism, but with all the Big Government controls, with less individual incentives. That Robert, is one of the two main tennents of Fascism. Its called Corporatism.

Personally, I don't give a rats rear end if someone makes billions, just as long at they don't cozy up to politicians and allow themselves to be corrupted by them. That's why more billionaires are Jackasses, followed somewhat by Dumbasses. One party is completely dominated by Progrressives(think Fascist), and the other side is pretty much controlled as well. Both parties are Big Government, Statists, and I would love to see all of them suddenly swallowed up by a giant fissure.

Opps, now The Buzz will be reporting me once again to Homeland Security, because I am promoting the destruction of government. My Bad!! S7Gah
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Hillary Clinton Is Like Herpes, "She Wont Go Away" - Anna Paulina
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#47
Have a little faith John L. ... every now and then there is a little glimmer of hope. It may not be much, but it's the (potential) destruction of a wealth redistribution program (mostly benefiting bankers) dating back to the New Deal.

This is "managed capitalism" getting a general smack down. It's driving big government politicians on both sides into a bit of a frenzy. What's not ta love?
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard."
-- Henry Mencken
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#48
Yeah, you're right Jack. After all, it could be full blown socialism, or even worse..............................see my signature. Spiteful
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Hillary Clinton Is Like Herpes, "She Wont Go Away" - Anna Paulina
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#49
"Anonymous24 Wrote:... economic collapse - how will it change society?

From elsewhere ... right now I think stagnation is the on going prognosis .. not collapse. But either way, it will force people to re-evaluate how they 'value' things. For instance ... Obamacare is forcing people into high deductible plans. Instead of the $20 copays we have gotten so used to, most people will get a bill for about $150 when they visit their doctor. Apparently, if you believe the apologists for the 2.9% economic contraction, the cause was either the cold weather or unusually reduced spending on healthcare. When costs for services effectively are increased by nearly 8 fold, sure, ... people will visit their doctor less and spend less. If it's for the sniffles, it's a money saver, if it prolongs and exacerbates a more serious conditions ... resulting in an amputation, allows a tumor to grow to another stage or two, etc ... then it leads to a far more costly outcome. The Fed has been trying it's hardest to increase the rate of inflation, that's one of the few successes that government has scored lately ... unfortunately, wages have continued to stay flat ... the "change to society" will not be a 'collapse' it will be a long protracted decline in our living standards. Travel costs more, food costs more, health care ... unless it's completely offset by subsidies ... cost more ... damn near everything costs more ... so people will adapt to getting by on less. People get the government and living standards that they deserve. And this will continue until people somehow realize that they deserve better. And until this occurs people will be more depressed and frustrated. That's how it will affect society.
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard."
-- Henry Mencken
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#50
(06-28-2014, 09:47 PM)John L Wrote: Yeah, you're right Jack. After all, it could be full blown socialism, or even worse..............................see my signature. Spiteful

Hey, I just gave you an example where fascism can potentially get rolled back in Congress. It could be just another bug on the windshield, or it could be an actual stake through the heart of a state sponsored capitalism 'initiative' dating back to FDR. Are you completely devoid of optimism??
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard."
-- Henry Mencken
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#51
(06-28-2014, 06:21 PM)John L Wrote: Right here is where this fellow shows his ignorance, and Collectivist proclivity.

Quote:Dear 1%ers, many of our fellow citizens are starting to believe that capitalism itself is the problem. I disagree, and I’m sure you do too. Capitalism, when well managed, is the greatest social technology ever invented to create prosperity in human societies. But capitalism left unchecked tends toward concentration and collapse. It can be managed either to benefit the few in the near term or the many in the long term. The work of democracies is to bend it to the latter. That is why investments in the middle class work. And tax breaks for rich people like us don’t. Balancing the power of workers and billionaires by raising the minimum wage isn’t bad for capitalism. It’s an indispensable tool smart capitalists use to make capitalism stable and sustainable. And no one has a bigger stake in that than zillionaires like us.

Here is what he is doing all at once: He is promoting Fascism, and also scorning it, all in one paragraph. He wants an appearance of capitalism, but with all the Big Government controls, with less individual incentives...

Can't be too focused on the term "Capitalism", as promoted by the KGB, to deflect the idea of the Free Market into a pejorative definition more easily ridiculed. They wanted to nuance the idea into one better defined as greed and avarice.

What should be studied now, is the attempt to redefine it as something that must have social consequence. See: "Corporate Social Innovation and the Future of Capitalism".
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#52
(06-03-2014, 12:37 AM)Gunnen4u Wrote: There was an Argentinian blogger who wrote a couple of books even on how to survive economic meltdowns such as those that have racked Argentina several times. It was disturbing in a way how civilized man will have to alter their natures to cope. However, also surprising was how society continued to function in a way after adjusting itself to a new reality.

Also, stockpile condoms, because if you have your shit together and come up as relatively successful, there will be plenty of trading vagina for a place to sleep and a meal. Basically, gender roles and relations revert to that of more quaint times.

I'm not sure it will be that bad. We have an aging population, and the crime rate actually went down during the Great Depression.
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#53
(07-07-2014, 12:49 PM)Anonymous24 Wrote: I'm not sure it will be that bad. We have an aging population, and the crime rate actually went down during the Great Depression.

Don't expect that this time around. The mores of the citizenry are different. Also, there has been a degradation of Christianity, which is important. Christianity teaches morality, and todays lack thereof is far higher.

This collapse will be entirely different, just as the cause for the collapse will be different. The Great Depression was caused First by Wall Street's fear of the Smoot-Hawley protectionist bill, which shut down trade. And Second, a stupid president(Hoover) did exactly the polar opposite one does in order to get the economy running again.

This one will be different because we are totally Broke, and will be in receivership. Add an idiot, following application of the Keynesian Superstition, And you REALLY have the ingredients for a massive catastrophe.
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Hillary Clinton Is Like Herpes, "She Wont Go Away" - Anna Paulina
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#54
what do you think of this, apparently on July 1st some law was passed which now makes it possible to pinpoint when the dollar will collapse:

http://pro.stansberryresearch.com/1404EO...g=0&h=true
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#55
I'm still listening to the presentation, since I cannot put it on pause. But I suspect it is a financial presentation.

As MacDaddy stated earlier, We are going to "begin again the work of remaking America". This was code for "dismantle our current system, and remake it all over again. And his idea of this is the classic Collectivist welfare state, which can only be finished with the removal of our current constitution and the implication of a top down system, with elites such as himself, in charge of our very lives.

He's been stating such things, over and over, but it just sounds so positive, and few have actually looked closely at what all this "Remaking of America" entails. He has to tear it down completely, before he can remake it over completely. And everyone, including yourself, are going to pay the heavy price of this remaking.






Obama Is Remaking America Into Socialism
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Hillary Clinton Is Like Herpes, "She Wont Go Away" - Anna Paulina
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#56
what about the aging population?
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#57
(07-12-2014, 07:15 PM)John L Wrote: I'm still listening to the presentation, since I cannot put it on pause. But I suspect it is a financial presentation.

As MacDaddy stated earlier, We are going to "begin again the work of remaking America". This was code for "dismantle our current system, and remake it all over again. And his idea of this is the classic Collectivist welfare state, which can only be finished with the removal of our current constitution and the implication of a top down system, with elites such as himself, in charge of our very lives.

He's been stating such things, over and over, but it just sounds so positive, and few have actually looked closely at what all this "Remaking of America" entails. He has to tear it down completely, before he can remake it over completely. And everyone, including yourself, are going to pay the heavy price of this remaking.






Obama Is Remaking America Into Socialism

Here's a new link that leads to a text article:
http://pro.stansberryresearch.com/1404EO...g=0&h=true
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#58
Yeah, I hate those Stansberry "cannot interrupt" videos. What could be explained in 30 seconds is dragged out forever.

Much better to search for

Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA)

...as well as Hiring Incentives to Restore Employment Act

Both appear to be the same Act.
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#59
(07-07-2014, 12:49 PM)Anonymous24 Wrote: I'm not sure it will be that bad. We have an aging population, and the crime rate actually went down during the Great Depression.

Anon,

How about answering your question with a question? How will it affect us? How much corruption are you prepared to swallow? We are being swarmed by Central American children ... why are conditions in their countries so bad? ... famine? ... ... floods? ... drought? ... plagues of Locusts? ... they are fleeing their shithole countries because their countries are corrupt shitholes that have become so corrupt that they can produce nothing but poverty ... and maybe a few bags of coffee beans. We've managed to maintain our living standard by epic borrowing and exporting debt ... right now we are importing corruption. We have abandoned any pretext of legally defending our border ... we have openly welcomed lawless entry into the United States. It's only one example but corruption permeates every level of our government. The IRS has openly violated the law ... records and documents that ... by law are supposed to be preserved ... have went poof ... with no explanation other than the arrogant explanations of the new commissioner before Congress. Lois Learner is getting a six figure pension in exchange for taking the 5th ... after proclaiming her innocence. Our President's response to a confrontation over illegal usurpation of power is "sue me". Mississippi and Louisiana are two of the poorest states in the country, they also have the highest levels of statewide corruption. If you can't see a correlation between corruption and poverty, you are completely blind.

I sincerely doubt there will be a collapse ... that would be quite disruptive. What you will see over the coming years is a steady erosion in your living standard. You keep asking about "what about our aging population". If they can work, they'll keep working. If they can't they'll have to live on their resources ... if they can't they'll begin to live in squalor. There's a recent poll out showing millennials to be more socially liberal but more fiscally conservative. Translation is, I don't want old people to suffer, but I certainly don't want to pay for their upkeep. There will be some point where, through attrition, AARP will lose it's political clout ... and grandma and grandpa will start eating more dog food.

G4U quotes ... " ... surprising was how society continued to function in a way after adjusting itself to a new reality." Not really, central bankers and politicians still have enough smoke and mirrors to mostly avoid complete catastrophic collapse. But not enough to avoid the erosion .... you can get people used to new 'realities' and continue to 'function' ... all it takes is a little time and a few distractions.

Devaluation of our currency, higher food costs, stagnant wages, rationed healthcare, resources devoted to anyone who walks across our borders, complete disincentive to start new businesses ... a government that giggles and snickers when it lies to us and violates it's own 'laws' ... militarization of local, state and federal law enforcement .... how do you suppose this will affect us?
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard."
-- Henry Mencken
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#60
"You keep asking about "what about our aging population"."

When I referenced that, I meant that there wouldn't be as much societal chaos, since most people were older and settled.
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