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NATO = Worthless.
#1
Nato is worthless.

This goes to show that NATO is really worthless.

Quote:BBC defence correspondent Rob Watson says that some member states have been worried about potential casualties among their troops, which has made reaching Thursday's agreement difficult.

(...)

Our correspondent says that to ease the concerns of some member states, it is being stressed that the troops' mission will be to promote peace and stability, and not to hunt down members of al-Qaeda and the Taleban.

That will remain the job of the US-led operation Enduring Freedom.


And it will be mainly the US doing the work, and losing men.

Go f---ing figure.
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#2
6,000 support troops and no front-line troops is better than nothing.

We don't want them getting in the way of our Special Forces, anyway.
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#3
No, they are worthless, and will be more of a hassle for us to deal with in the long run.

Perhaps Jed may have some insider info.
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#4
march 2004

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/...329-4.html

Quote:Fifty-five years ago, the representatives of 12 nations gathered here in Washington to sign the North Atlantic Treaty, which established the most successful military alliance in history.

...

And troops from Slovenia are serving in the international force that is protecting the city of Kabul in Afghanistan.

...

Our unity and our commitment to freedom carried us to victory in the Cold War, and they showed us the way to victory in the war on terror.

IF Nato = worthles THEN Bush = idiot (AND we GOTO home)
Ščepec slaščic za mišičaste pešce s stičišča cestišč.
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#5
COS Wrote:march 2004

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/...329-4.html

Quote:Fifty-five years ago, the representatives of 12 nations gathered here in Washington to sign the North Atlantic Treaty, which established the most successful military alliance in history.

...

And troops from Slovenia are serving in the international force that is protecting the city of Kabul in Afghanistan.

...

Our unity and our commitment to freedom carried us to victory in the Cold War, and they showed us the way to victory in the war on terror.

IF Nato = worthles THEN Bush = idiot (AND we GOTO home)

... IN HISTORY!!!
You misunderstand Bush. It's requiem.
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#6
NATO's only momentum is expanding into the East. When and if Russia is submitted, this tool of American foreign policy will make no sense because it seems difficult to keep together so many states and nations without a clearly outlined enemy nearby.
Since Russia is not willing to "surrender", NATO will strengthen.
P.S. Heh, I am Stratfor in a way. S2
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#7
Green Wrote:NATO's only momentum is expanding into the East. When and if Russia is submitted, this tool of American foreign policy will make no sense because it seems difficult to keep together so many states and nations without a clearly outlined enemy nearby.
Since Russia is not willing to "surrender", NATO will strengthen.
P.S. Heh, I am Stratfor in a way. S2
I think Russia should just tell them all to f.. off and disintegrate, leaving all its nukes to Tatarstan and truning into a bunch of small regional states itself.
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#8
Well, while the EU is trying to create a common European constitution, we already have such constitution- the one of the Russian Federation. Actually, in matters of the relations between the federal state and regions we have to reach a goal contrary to the EU intention, namely decentralization. But since we have a lot of outside enemies, the abolishment of governors' appointment is dangerous. OTOH, the absence of change in regional elites is possibly the main cause for increase in corruption. All in all, it looks like we have to choose between democracy and existance of our state.
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#9
Green Wrote:Well, while the EU is trying to create a common European constitution, we already have such constitution- the one of the Russian Federation. Actually, in matters of the relations between the federal state and regions we have to reach a goal contrary to the EU intention, namely decentralization. But since we have a lot of outside enemies, the abolishment of governors' appointment is dangerous.
it's something I could never understand, terrorists raide a scholl in Beslan and is a response to that Putin announces that governots will now be appointed by him personally rather than elected locally, where's the connection? how exactly do president appointed governors impact on the country's security?


Quote:OTOH, the absence of change in regional elites is possibly the main cause for increase in corruption. All in all, it looks like we have to choose between democracy and existance of our state.
it's a misconception it's what those elites that never change want you to think, they've been at it for years now, trying to implant in your mind the idea that that if they are removed the whole state will collapse, now ask yourself this question why would Russia collapse if for example Zuraboff was made to resign, or if Putin was impeached, what would that cause the country to fall apart? And you're talking here locally, how would having governors elected rather than directly appointed by the president be detrimental to the state security? It would sure undermine the job security of the governors, but when they say state what exactly do they mean? could it be they're talking about themselves then?
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#10
Do you think Orange technologies are impossible in Kaliningrad, Kurils and Karelia?
Do you think Green ideological offensive on Muslim regions is impossible?
Russian insitutions are too weak yet to protect the country from domino downfall.
Note that local parliaments are elected, not appointed, all they have to do is to approve the appointed governor or to reject him.
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#11
How much evidence do we Americans need? NATO is WORSE than WORTHLESS.

COS,feel free to bring your brave warriors home to safety,please,do so.

Let's do some math. America has lost about 4-5 hundred thousand of our men fighting with Europe against tyranny,THIS is what these worthless jerks have to offer in return?

PLEASE America,wise up,the math never has added up!

George Washington was right,foreign alliances SU.CK!!!!!!!
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#12
Green Wrote:Do you think Orange technologies are impossible in Kaliningrad, Kurils and Karelia?
you have to ask the more important question - why is it that the people of the CIS are so suscueptible to orange technologies, as you call them? Imho the answer to this question is because all the governments across the CIS are corrupt thugs who opress their own people, so when somebody calls on the people to topple their government they're only to eager to go ahead and do just that, especially if you supply them with tents and free booze and snacks.

Quote:Do you think Green ideological offensive on Muslim regions is impossible?
Islam, especially radical islam,is on the rise today because it openly preaches against social inequalities and condemns the rich of this worl accusing them of robbing the poor. And not only that, being a religion of action it also calls on people to not just humbly accept their slave status but to rise up and fight against the oppressors. Look at where Islam is now drawing the most support, in the poorest countries in the world, Russia, btw is one such country and Islam is gaining ground there as well. Did you know that a lot of people in provincial Russia are actually in favor of letting Chechnya go and tend to identify with the chechen militants because they have first hand knowledge of what it feels like to be humiliated at the hands of the Russian police. So yeah, Islam looks set to take over even more people.

Quote:Russian insitutions are too weak yet to protect the country from domino downfall.
yet they're strong enough to extort bribes from the people. What's the point to increasing the number of beurocrats if this beurocratic army turns out to be incapable of doing anything but taking bribes?

Quote:Note that local parliaments are elected, not appointed, all they have to do is to approve the appointed governor or to reject him.
yeah sure tell me about it, they're elected, then the president offers somebody for the position of governor in their region and they reject him, then they reject the president's candidate a second time and if they reject a third candidate (by the way my understanding is that the president can keep proposing the same candidate), then they simply get dismissed. That's some democracy, mon ami, - vote for the president's candidate or get dismissed.
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#13
Answering to your first question I think there are two kinds of people susceptible to orange tricks: West-oriented group who make their choice deliberately and also the common rabble who join any kind of "revolution", cause they like showy fireworks and free snacks. Actually the second part suffers the most from the revolutionary "hangover", because they are idiots, "the stuff for any historical event, inert masses".
Like me. :evil:
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#14
About Islam. (Sorry, I can only paste short messages due to some puter bug). Today I have read about Islam in Kazakhstan. You know, the Kazakh are troubled by Islam radicalism spreading too quickly over younger generation, their tutors coming from Middle East with incendiary speeches while their homespan mullahs get to loose.
As for "Islam is a religion of the poor",Islam is on the rise in America.
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#15
When I said about weak institutions, I meant judicial branch independance and the police force.
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#16
I don't want to discuss the last remark you made, because the law of governors' appointment is on trial in the Supreme Court now. Wink1
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#17
Green Wrote:Answering to your first question I think there are two kinds of people susceptible to orange tricks: West-oriented group who make their choice deliberately and also the common rabble who join any kind of "revolution", cause they like showy fireworks and free snacks. Actually the second part suffers the most from the revolutionary "hangover", because they are idiots, "the stuff for any historical event, inert masses".
Like me. :evil:
you're oversimplifying. Th key issue here is that people are disgruntled, they feel cheated by their countries, their government and their elites. Some can articulate their feelings and tell you why they're in opposition, for others, those you refer to as the inert mass, this disgruntlement is at the gut level, lurking there until somebody comes along and puts it to some work in street protests.
Quote:About Islam. (Sorry, I can only paste short messages due to some puter bug). Today I have read about Islam in Kazakhstan. You know, the Kazakh are troubled by Islam radicalism spreading too quickly over younger generation, their tutors coming from Middle East with incendiary speeches while their homespan mullahs get to loose.
As for "Islam is a religion of the poor",Islam is on the rise in America.
can't say much about Kazakhstan, my guess would be that the established muslim leaders in that country who've traditionally been in cohorts with with whoever happens to be running the country at the moment are trobuled by the fact that younger people are attracted to more radical branches of islam. It's all about religion business, no people in church no cash for the priest to live off, it's pure economics.
Regarding the spread of Islam in the US, the US is the richest country in the world, sure but it has to be said that it's the richest primarily in terms of GDP and per capita income, when it comes down to more detailed statistics it turns out there's heaps of people living hand to mouth in mobiles, around 50 million (think about it out of a total population of circa 250 million, 50 million) don't have any kind of medical insurance because they simply can't afford it. No wonder Islam is taking firm root among the black of America because the blacks have been the traditional outcasts in US society for years, the poverty level among the blacks is several magnitudes higher than among the WASP's, so it all figures. New radical moslem leaders are cashing in on social inequalities to build themselves nice congregations full of people ready to lay down their lives for the moslem cause.
Quote:When I said about weak institutions, I meant judicial branch independance and the police force
you know it's funny you should mention those, because far as I know these two rank the highest corruptionwise in Russia. It's common knowledge that police departments run protection rings, ae involved in prostitution and drug trafficing. Think about how chechen militans always manage to effortlessly get inside Russia and hit anywhere they want including Moscow, ever wonder how they manage to carry it off, easy - by tipping off cops.
Same goes for the judiciary, these dudes are expensive in that they won't lift a finger for less than a thousand bucks, but man you throw a russian judge several k and they'll let Manson walk. You know they have ways, I think of course in the case of Manson they wouldn't be able to just pronounce him innocent but they can always sentence him to life suspended. you know like some time ago I saw a report about this case where a bunch of gvnt officials managed to steal several hundred million dollars' worth of diamonds, they all got huge sentences, like 10 - 15 years and even more, all suspended.
Quote: don't want to discuss the last remark you made, because the law of governors' appointment is on trial in the Supreme Court now.
and why is that, you're not a supreme court justice, are you? cause if you're not you won't be breaking any laws by discussing it here.
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#18
To feel disgruntled by the country you live in is absolutely OK, don't you agree? I just can't stand people who start to believe in Big and Kind Uncle Sam or Great Leader Grandpa Lenin, Green Aliens, Space Rays and other crap to come and improve their life for them. This is psychology of infantilism. Ukraine now is in deep shyt. Don't you think it's idiotism to start considerable changes in a country with 11% GDP growth what Ukraine was before the Orange Show ?! Now she has 4% which is only a fault of the West.
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#19
Quote:It's all about religion business, no people in church no cash for the priest to live off, it's pure economics.

I found another point of view.

Quote:But the empirical record evinces little correlation between economics and militant Islam. Aggregate measures of wealth and economic trends fall flat as predictors of where militant Islam will be strong and where not. On the level of individuals, too, conventional wisdom points to militant Islam attracting the poor, the alienated and the marginal-but research finds precisely the opposite to be true. To the extent that economic factors explain who becomes Islamist, they point to the fairly well off, not the poor.

Take Egypt as a test case. In a 1980 study, the Egyptian social scientist Saad Eddin Ibrahim interviewed Islamists in Egyptian jails and found that the typical member is "young (early twenties), of rural or small-town background, from the middle or lower middle class, with high achievement and motivation, upwardly mobile, with science or engineering education, and from a normally cohesive family." In other words, Ibrahim concluded, these young men were "significantly above the average in their generation"; they were "ideal or model young Egyptians." In a subsequent study, he found that out of 34 members of the violent group At-Takfir w'al-Hijra, fully 21 had fathers in the civil service, nearly all of them middle-ranking. More recently, the Canadian Security Intelligence Service found that the leadership of the militant Islamic group Al-Jihad "is largely university educated with middle-class backgrounds." These are not the children of poverty or despair.
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#20
Quote:you know it's funny you should mention those, because far as I know these two rank the highest corruptionwise in Russia.
For me corrupted=weak. Why do they take bribes? Their wages are low, their responsibility is zilch.They have no control and transparency from society.So raise their payments, restructure their system to be more mobile and open and let NGOs monitor them.Anyway this goal needs a) state's good will; b) grassroot movement.
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