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Is Pope Francis Digging Himself Into A Hole?
#1
It looks like the new pope is showing his true colours of late: Here Are 11 Top "Screw Capitalism" Lines in Pope Francis' New Message.
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#2
1,5,6 ,9(partially) resonate with me personally.

John, think about this a moment.

1) How can it be that a 2 point loss in the Dow is news and the death of a person who lost their way is not? That's not even about capitalism, that's about priorities of a populace.

5) I share his empathy for these folks. His comment to me isn't about capitalism, it's about why are there so many of these folks and so many Christians and the 2 seem not to meet often enough? That's what Jesus challenged us to do, serve humanity personally. They need my help, I need to help them. Doesn't mean I'm a socialist.

What did Jesus do as soon as He explained all authority had been given to Him in heaven and on earth? He took off His robe, put on a slave's apron and washed the 12's feet. That's a heck of an example, so I agree with the Pope here.

6) I often comment we are getting "another shopping mall" as if that is something sublime. Those left behind should move us. They are our main objects of concern according to the bible. I realize some are willful bums, that's always been the case.

9) I agree entirely with his views here as relates to believing Christians. I have responsibilities to treat folks in a kind way, honorable, respectful and to share my profits if I am an employer.

I disagree with the pope inasmuch as his views might be directed to non Christian society or to secular economic organization, we Christians have no business forcing others to share our views of anything.

The rest is deservedly called collectivist horse poop.
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#3
I posted something about this earlier, but can't remember where I placed it. But this thing about the Pope, and his statements are a bit troubling to me. And I am not alone either. Adam Shaw, a Roman Catholic, is also deeply concerned.

Pope Francis is the Catholic Church’s Obama – God help us

Somehow, in retrospect, an Argentine pope doesn't seem to be the best choice. The last thing we need is more Peronist Fascism spread around the world. I could be wrong, but this bothers me a good bit. And the use of coercion and force for redistributing wealth does not advance the plight of poverty.

Teaching the blessings of Free Enterprise is the only effective way to go. But I'm getting the impression this pope has trouble understanding such foreign concepts as Free Enterprise.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#4
NOTE: I found it, and have merged the two threads.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#5
One thing that makes his comments less problematic is if you know Catholic doctrine. What he's saying is within Catholic doctrine. That precludes socialism explicitly AND remember, he is speaking to believing Catholics only. His message is not for society or even other Christians anymore than my pastor's sermons are, they're for the faithful in his assembly only.

Article below is from a very conservative Catholic(faith and politics):

http://theweek.com/article/index/250062/...pe-francis
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#6
Looks like Venezuela's bishops would like for their boss to know that Collectivism is not what he thinks it is.

In truth, it is not "Marxist Socialism", i.e. "Communism" that is destroying Venezuela. No need to go that far, since traditional "Socialism" is doing very well without having to go that far. But they understand the main problem here. Now if only the pope can somehow wrap his brain around it as well.

Quote:The bishops said the long lines of people trying to buy food and other basic necessities and the constant rise in prices are the result of the government's decision to "impose a political-economic system of socialist, Marxist or communist," which is "totalitarian and centralist" and "undermines the freedom and rights of individuals and associations."

The Venezuelan bishops specifically stated that the private sector was critical for the well being of the country. The document, read by Monsignor Diego Padron in Spanish, said the country needs "a new entrepreneurial spirit with audacity and creativity."

So not only did these bishops diagnose the cause of the misery correctly; they also warned that communism harms the poor most of all.

The Venezuelan archbishops make the useful observation that if capitalist economies have problems, socialist alternatives are far worse for the poor and needy.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#7
Read the article IBD posted about the Pope's views. They are not about secular collectivism, they are addressed to believing Catholics. Some of his views are valid, he knows capitalism exceeds socialism and that capitalism still leaves behind some folks.

He laments the fact that there are plenty of well off folks( I consider myself well off) that are believers that do not give a da.mn about less fortunate people. That is awful, the man is right there. It's from one end of the bible to the other, folks like me should be helping poor folks.

That's really his point, it isn't about secular state business as much as you think.
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#8
The Pope did stick his foot in his mouth today agreeing that anti religious comments should not be allowed. That's stupidity.
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#9
We have to remember that Roman Catholicism, despite its modern dissembling, is at heart a totalitarian regime, that Protestants had to go to all-out war against for over thirty years to free themselves from it. 7.5 million people were killed the hard way, one at a time, with swords and spears and arrows, in Germany alone. One of the last emperors of the "Holy Roman Empire," Emperor Ferdinand II, declared, "Better a desert than a country full of heretics." Roman Catholicism has changed its outward appearance, but has not changed at heart. Let them regain political control, and see how much they really respect tolerance and religious liberty. Many Catholic leaders even in modern times have been known to curse the idea of religious liberty and freedom of conscience, but outwardly keep it quiet for now.

Muslims, who think that Christianity is weak and readiliy susceptible to conquest by bullying tactics and terrorism, do not realize what a truly horrific sleeping giant they are in danger of awakening. Roman Catholicism was slaughtering dissidents and opponents centuries before Mohammed was born. If things continue the way they have been, there will be a civil war in Europe, led by a church using secular governments to do its bidding, that will result in not one single Muslim being left alive in Europe. I believe this is what the Bible prophecy of Revelation 8:8, 9, is describing. (Note that in Bible prophecy, "sea" and "waters" are prophetic symbols that mean "peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues."--Rev. 17:15 last part. They usually refer to the populations of the Old World--Europe and the Middle East. And in Daniel 7, creatures or beasts in the sea symbolized nations or kingdoms, as explicitly defined by an angel in Daniel 7:17. Blood, of course, signifies warfare. The burning mountain being cast into the sea represents a great empire motivated by violent zeal being cast again into the political affairs of nations.)
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#10
You think the USA has "religious significance" and we've killed our share for less than moral reasons, so why should more of your anti Christian propaganda against the Catholics be trusted by a thoughtful reader?

Did Ms White inform you about these numbers and where was her research published?
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#11
First of all, Palladin, criticizing the Roman Catholic Church is NOT antichristian. Catholicism all too often in its history has shown itself to be antichristian in both behavior and teaching.

I reported to you the clear interpretation of Bible prophecy, keeping in mind the declaration by the Apostle Peter in 2 Peter 1:20 that "no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation." This means that we must allow the Bible itself to define all its prophetic symbols, allow context to indicate when in history to apply the prophecies, and use common sense analysis--including seeing how passages may be used elsewhere in the Bible, to determine whether they are to be taken literally or symbolically.

As for my source for the figures I gave, here are the links:
The figure 7.5 million killed in Germany in the Thirty Years War: http://www.bookofhorriblethings.com/ax02.html
The statement by Emperor Ferdinand II: http://schillerinstitute.org/educ/hist/e..._1618.html

Ellen G. White obtained many of her historical accounts from history texts, such as Merle D'Aubigné's A History of the Reformation, and James Wylie's History of Protestantism, as well as Wylie's History of the Waldenses.

By the way, many responsible scholars offer as a conservative estimate that the Roman Catholic Church has martyred over 100 million "heretics" throughout its history. Palladin, just how many people do you believe America has killed "for less than moral reasons," as you put it? I would suggest that you are the one who is mouthing propaganda--Anti-American propaganda.
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#12
(01-15-2015, 06:10 PM)Palladin Wrote: The Pope did stick his foot in his mouth today agreeing that anti religious comments should not be allowed. That's stupidity.

Check what he actually said.

There is a difference between saying "one should not insult religion" and "insulting religion should not be allowed".

TBH, I like what he said. I don't want to see Charlie pornographers banned, but I find cosmic justice in them being dead.
Sodomia delenda est

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#13
As a undergraduate historian, I can truthfully state that the Roman Catholic Church was indeed set up as a less than representative organization. And yes, it was totalitarian in many respects, and exercised its edicts far worse than many today would even suspect. In fact the manner in which it included certain biblical books, and excluded others, were final and not open to discussion. And that was one of the very least of its problems. Dogma was decided by a inner circle, and again, one had better not cross that tiny group, upon peril of life, liberty, and other things.

If Palladin thinks the Holy Church in Rome has not been guilty of some very horrendous crimes during its tenure, he should take a college level course or two, from some scholars with detailed knowledge of such things. And they did these things because they could. They had absolute power at times, and as the saying goes, "Absolute power tends to corrupt absolutely." And the blame he assigns this country of committing is chicken feed in comparison to the Holy See use of getting others to do their directives.

But times have changed, just as that same church is not calling for crusades to combat its ideological enemies. Fortunately the Church of Rome has learned many valuable lessons, and today they don't deserve the hatred they still are harvesting from past deeds.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#14
Ron,

Yes, your commentary is very anti Christ, you just don't know it. Catholics are believers and as such, we owe them the unity and virtue love we owe Christ around the basic we all agree on if we're orthodox Christians as they are in Christ , check out His prayer to The Father in John 17.



The truth is they have their flaws which Ellen White grossly exaggerated in ignorance of scholarship( for example, no German has ever heard of your nonsensical portrayal above, it's so exaggerated to look like a bad cartoon story).

Other's HAVE done as bad or way worse with said power, look at atheist rulership in the 20th century era, look at pagan rulership and Jewish religious rulership when the church was born, extreme "disgusting" was perped against fellow Jews in Jerusalem for example, same among the pagans.




John,


There is very strong evidence as early as late 1st century AD the books we have with the exception of 3 minor epistles( seems like the questionable one's were II Peter, 3rd John and I can't recall the 3rd one) were what the earliest believers respected as inspired.

There was a text called "The Shepherd of Hermes" that almost made the canon in the 1st century. It's a great work of theology, it just never received high enough regard to be considered inspired.



The "other Gospels" in question were all penned in the 2cd century AD by Alexandrian Jews who didn't even know the proper names of Palestinian Jews in the 1st century when Jesus was here and most importantly, where Jesus lived His ministry life, they are as inauthentic as the book of Mormon or Koran are and not eyewitness accounts of the historic Christ.

IF they had been accepted, there would be no Christian faith, this faith is not about ghosts, it's about 1 unique Jew who was supposed to comprise all of Israel for Israel's sake and the world's, to consume their sin and return to life bodily according to varied OT Messianic passages, these gnostic gospels aren't about that.



I promise your research did not include this research, just the fact the gnostic gospels don't even know proper names of 30 AD Israeli Jews ought to make any reasonable human know they are not about 30 AD Jesus of Nazareth.



Of course no Catholic would accept them, no believer would have accepted them. They just borrowed a famous name by the 2cd century and developed another version of Platonic religion.
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#15
Palladin, it seems evident that I have vastly more knowlege of history than you do. I know what I am talking about. You do not. I have exaggerated nothing. I have said nothing that was not 100% accurate and completely verifiable. As far as I have been able to research, neither did Ellen G. White.

I do recognize Roman Catholics as Christians. It is the Papal system that has hijacked their church and brought in pagan teachings and tactics (back when Bibles were few and only 5% of the population could read) that I am forced to conclude is the villain of the ages. Jesus promised that "the gates of hell" will not prevail against the church. That I hold to be true--even if the gates of hell are in the church. Throughout the ages, Satan's primary mode of attack against any church, denomination, religious organization, is to hijack it and try to bend it to his will, so it will misrepresent God to the world. The continual "calling out" into new congregations (that is the literal meaning of the Greek word for church, ekklesia) has been the divine response to this. The church needs organization to accomplish its various mission objectives more efficiently. And yet we always pay the price as time goes by, and people less than fully converted and dedicated to the Lord manage to reach positions of authority. The willingness of people to regard their church as their righteousness that they zealously defend against any criticism provides a welcoming climate for agents whom Satan can use to enter positions of leadership. (The only antidote to this is to understand and fully embrace the gospel truth that the Lord alone is our Righteousness.)

If you read my recent novel, Angel in the End of Time, a Parable of the End Times (published as an E-book through Amazon), you would know that I make deep and telling criticisms of my own church, because serious wrongs have been happening in my church and subtle errors have been creeping in over the 165 years of its existence. Ellen G. White made many pointed criticisms of the leading brethren, and for this she was "encouraged" by denominational leaders to go away to Australia for five years. She died in 1915, so there has been no Living Testimony for 100 years to reprove those who would lead the church in the wrong direction. I conclude that my church is not yet hopeless, but it will have to undergo a process Ellen G. White predicted for our church, a grievous "Shaking," where messages of reproof would come from the Lord, and many will rise up against it, producing the Shaking. This will be the ultimate fulfillment of Jesus' parable of "The Wheat and the Tares." Angels, not men, will remove the tares. White predicted that to many observers, it will seem that the church has fallen. Yet she says it will not fall. As she said in Acts of the Apostles, p. 11, "From the beginning, faithful souls have constituted the church on earth." Satan wants people to believe it is the church organization, or its leaders, who are the church. White predicted the day will come when all our church's administrators and pastors will be in prison, and the work of the Lord will have to be finished by laymen, led by the Holy Spirit. White said in Testimonies to Ministers, p. 300, that "The Lord will use ways and means by which it will be seen that He is taking the reins in His own hands." I have always regarded that as the most hopeful thing she ever wrote.
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#16
Pal,

I'm really not ready to think that Ron is the anti-Christ.
Sodomia delenda est

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#17
Thanks, MV! S1

By the way, I believe that for the most part, church scholars who decided on which books should be included in the Bible ("the Holy Canon of Scripture"), made the right decisions for clearly sound reasons. I only regret that Catholic scholars decided to include the Apocrypha, in that sacred cannon. They obviously had reservations about those books, and almost did not included them. Protestants were wise to exclude them, since they hint at things like reincarnation, and have other problems. Although there is historical interest in some of the accounts of the Apocrypha, corrupted as they may be. For example, it is the Apocrypha that tells us that it was Jeremiah and his loyal companions who removed the Ark of the Covenant and hid it in a cave, so it would not fall into the hands of the Babylonians when they conquered Judah. Ellen G. White said the Ark has never been disturbed since it was hidden, but at God's appointed time it would be brought forth for the world to see--for within it are the tables of stone on which the Ten Commandments were written. There is a time coming when that will be vitally important to the world.
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#18
My pleasure. S6

There is no such thing as right decision or wrong decision..... especially taking into account that nearly the entire OT, except for the Moses' part, was never considered sacred by Jews.... effectively belonging to the same category as Apocrypha: respected, not sacred. Was taken, could have been dropped.
Sodomia delenda est

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#19
Meanwhile, more fresh Pope:

[Image: 1_11_UPI_Pope_Screen_Shot_2015-01-16_at_...8_PM.0.png]
Sodomia delenda est

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#20
MV,

I don't think Ron is so bad(probably been a better man than me long term), just wrong to constantly accuse his fellow believer like he does with Catholics.

WWIII? Not quite, but, if the US is a receding power, we may really be in for a rough era before our time is up here. Even with my disdain for the US foreign policy, when it dries up, someone must fill the vacuum.
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