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Warsaw Uprising
68 years ago today in the city of Warsaw, a weary and occupied people planned an offensive to repel Nazi Germany from it's lands and secure their independence before the Red Army of the Soviet Union could cross the Vistula and bring their own special brand of Germanization to the Poles. The Polish government had been in exile for 5 years while the resistance network within Poland had been diligently working towards regaining their freedom from tyrannical overlords who had been daily brutalizing Poland for no other reason than that the Poles should be scoured from the Earth to make way for pure German colonists.

The Home Army, under the command of General Tadeusz Bor-Komorowski, received information early on that the promised support by Britain, America, and the Soviet Union might not emerge or play a crucial role in Poland's uprising, but they moved ahead with operations. At W hour, the Home Army put into action over 5 years of planning. Citizens joined regulars in the streets and beat back the German occupation block by block. A city of over 1.3 million people leaped from their homes in the hopes that a few weeks of hard intense fighting would grant them the peace and stability they had been craving since 1939.

At first, early objectives were met; a concentration camp was liberated and all able bodied men joined the forces, a German arsenal was raided, and a few enemy armored units fell into the possession of Polish forces. However, as the Home Army eagerly looked to the East for signs of the advancing Soviets crossing the Vistula river, hope was smashed when the only reinforcements to cross were the small band of Polish soldiers led by General Berling who had been fighting for the Soviets. 5,660 men were slaughtered, wounded, or missing and General Berling was removed from his position by the Soviets for disobeying Stalin's orders while Germany pounded the small force to pieces.

Poland had been sold out by it's allies and now it was going to pay dearly. Entire neighborhoods were massacred. While the initial invasion by the Germans in 1939 had destroyed 20% of Warsaw, the systematic removal of the Poles from their home and the carnage of the uprising had brought the city to over 85% completely destroyed. When the Home Army surrendered, it was disarmed and put into concentration camps. In Wola, as many as 100,000 civilians were killed when elements of the Home Army blended into the civilian population. Of the 350,000 civilians who survived the uprising, 110,000 of them were sent to labor and death camps while the rest were rounded up and dispersed and exiled from their lands. When Soviet forces finally entered Warsaw, the secret police under Stalin rounded up more civilians and former Home Army soldiers and persecuted them further. No punishment had ever been so terrifying and complete than what had been handed to the Poles for simply occupying a land designated by Hitler to become a man made lake to feed irrigation to farms operated by German settlers.

Every year on August 1, the rebuilt and independent nation of Poland gathers in Warsaw to honor and remember the terrible fate it had suffered. An air raid siren goes of once a year while the city falls silent and still. Once a year, 1.7 million people put aside what they were doing and spend one minute to remember the collective loss they shared 68 years ago.

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Too bad they don't mention the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, which was made up of those evil Joooooos. Is there any Polish event for that too?

Chamberlain's action to surrender the Czechoslovakia's Sudetenland left Poland surrounded so that there was no way to move troops to help, yet there were iron-clad treaties guaranteeing support. Russia had the only access, and it flinched. The arguments that Chamberlain used was "...There has come back from Germany to Downing Street peace with honor. I believe it is peace in our time." A year later the German leader derided the agreement as just a "scrap of paper" and invaded Poland on 1 September 1939. One thing Teddy Roosevelt was correct on was "to carry a big stick." Although he is widely considered a Progressive icon - he would be aghast at what it has actually come to mean. The unenforceable treaties compelled England to enter the war.

The NAZI reprisal was the entire heart and soul of the nation's best minds and leaders being taken into the woods and slaughtered. Poland languished for at least a generation because all their leaders and best minds were gone. No entrepreneurs, bookkeepers, or business leaders - not just charismatic political leaders.
I see it as all one event. From the invasion in 1939 to the time Poland freed itself from soviet rule. It's a rememberence of the shit the Poles have had to endure for centuries. Judaism and the extermination of Jews have little to do with this time, they are independent issues within the program of germanization. Hitler decided to scrap the entire country and build a lake while he carved off enough to pacify Stalin. The events in Poland had to do with the eradication of an entire sovereign nation, regardless of race, religion, gender, etc. Most of the plans for extermination camps for the Jews were formed as Germany was crushing Poland, the Poles were practice for the larger problem of solving the Jewish Equation.
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We could have aided Poland. Churchill was rebuked by Roosevelt because FDR was concerned about Stalins mood just before the Malta Conference. The USA sold the lives of the Poles to appease a dictator. We dropped a few air supplies as an Allied action, but the Russians didn't even put parachutes on the crates and what wasn't destroyed fell into German hands. We resupplied the Germans.

It's sickening.
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No, we couldn't have aided Poland. Czechoslovakia was the key, when it was allowed to be surrendered, there was no way to get forces to Poland. War is half determination and half supply-lines. Cutting-off either will win you the war. The Russians had their own agenda and visions of global conquest. They also were working with all of the national treasure tied up with their military and had an idea to live off plunder to make up the difference.

Of course FDR was concerned with Stalin's mood.His state of mind was probably very important, because he was the patron saint of the "Fellow Travelers." They built their own governance based on what Stalin and Duranty told them. Walter Duranty suppressed the starvation of millions of people while glorifying Josef Stalin, and Duranty got a Pulitzer Prize. FDR's advisers were true-believers.

It wasn't until the "Trust but Verify" folks gained control of the White House that foreign affairs began to make sense.
I think if you had been alive then, you'd know on this one William is accurate. There was no thought of confronting the USSR and having another 4 or 5 year war for the Americans and I doubt the west Europeans would have wanted it either.

Everyone is fortunate Stalin didn't challenge us after Yalta because the truth is we couldn't have whipped him if he tried to take all of Europe. The logistics and war weariness would have guaranteed a USSR victory I think.
Patrick I don't believe the USSR could have won had they tried to take Western Europe. Sorry, I don't agree.

But you can always read Harry Turtledove and Robert Conroy to get their ideas about 'what ifs'.

Remember, we had the Bomb, and Uncle Joe didn't. And we also had B-29s with lots of distance capability.

We had a few bombs - not enough to defeat Russia, spread all over Europe busy taking treasure and plunder to pay for its war.
Bill, we had three at the time, if I recall. But there were more in the pipeline, and nothing could have stopped us from building more fairly quickly. Within weeks anyway.

Plus we could have stationed enough bombers in Iran and other middle east countries and literally bombed the living shit out of the USSR's war making factories which were considered immune to danger. B-29s with extra fuel tanks could have wrecked havoc with the Soviets.

Don't tell me we could not have won. Patton was also positive we should have kept on and rolled them up as well.

You people don't realize just how shitty their equipment was, along with poor training. Almost everything was utterly primitive and not built to last for any particular time. Those vaunted T34 tanks were usable for a very short lifespan, and then they became junk. The engines were modeled from a farm tractor, and so loosely put together that they only lasted a few hundred miles before having to be replaced.

Their artillery had to be slowly massed together and never used with any finesse, because most of the officers had no idea how to even read maps. And if you can't use maps well, how do you ever expect to hit an object with the planet's spin taken into consideration. For the very life of me, I cannot understand this mystique those barbarians had on so many people, who should know better.

All they had going for them was numbers, and poor quality at that.

I highly recommend you read those three chapters I posted years ago. The book is a masterpiece and totally debunks all the bullshit we have been fed for decades about the all-powerful Soviets. As a former Armor officer, I've seen their armour up close, and I wouldn't have been caught dead inside those pieces of junk. And if you think they have changed since the fall of the USSR, think again.

Chapter 6:The Hordes(The Threat]

Chapter 7: Mobalizing The Hordes(The Threat)

Chapter 8: Tanks And Other Armor(The Threat)

At the Yalta conference, we agreed to repatriate immediately any and all residents of the soviet union who were to be found in allied controlled lands. We shipped the Cossacks back, against our better judgements, because we wanted an expedite return of our POWs. But Russia held back some of our guys when they thought we were letting a few persons of interest slip through the cracks and we did fuck all about it. Right or wrong, we knowingly sent hundreds of thousands of people to their deaths all to appease Stalin.
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It was all about the FDR legacy that Truman inherited. Truman was given the go-ahead with the decision to bomb Japan, but the FDR administration held Stalin in much higher esteem than was warranted. Looking back in hindsight - we can see how stretched thin they were and how unimpressive their war machinery was, but the contemporaneous belief was that they could pull rabbits out of hats.

Its not the reality that kept us back, but the incorrect perceptions.
(08-01-2012, 12:21 PM)WmLambert Wrote: Chamberlain's action to surrender the Czechoslovakia's Sudetenland left Poland surrounded so that there was no way to move troops to help, yet there were iron-clad treaties guaranteeing support.

OMG! What troops to help, Slovakians? Had wars of their own with the Poles all the time. The population in the Sudetenland was 90% German after WW1, and the elites 100% German. Woodrow Wilson wanted self-determination of the Sudetenland, and it to join Germany or Austria. For all intends and purposes, these lands were German, and Hitler had every right to take them. Czechs and Slovaks weren't amongst the winners of WW1, so to reward them with German lands was to lay a mine that had to go off.

Quote:Too bad they don't mention the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, which was made up of those evil Joooooos. Is there any Polish event for that too?

Good point. No Poles came to their rescue. They hated each other and continue to do so intensely.

Poland managed to wage war with every single nation it had borders with between 1919 and 1939. With Czechoslovakia, Ukraine, Lithuania, and Germany in Silesia. Their problem if they thought they can take on Hitler.
"You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." Dick Cheney

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