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Interesting Discoveries Concerning Jesus
#1
First is the fact that on April 3, 33 AD there is a total eclipse of the sun astronomers know of. I knew of that myself and in the Gospel accounts it is stated the earth went dark at noon during Jesus' crucifixion. So, lots of folks in the Christian community have felt this was that day.


Now we have this:

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/05/2...p=features

I'd say that's the day.
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#2
Sure, but was it the cause or the effect?
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#3
It doesn't prove or disprove Jesus is Messiah/Son of God, it's just fascinating to me.

The early Christians in theory could have dishonorably appropriated the natural phenomena of that day and claimed they happened due to the fact Jews had just murdered Yahweh in the flesh.

Sort of another case of miraculous signs which were not absent from Jewish history.

That is a possibility to consider. Possibility (A).

Another possibility is they just documented what happened. (B)

Considering we know historically Peter, Paul and James were martyred for their faith (Josephus documented James' martyrdom in Jerusalem in his book, "Antiquities"), it's hard to assume (A).

It's difficult to understand the martyrdoms of those 3 if they were lying about seeing Jesus alive again. Especially James and Paul as they were not believers pre resurrection, they had no interests to protect, no emotional attachments, etc. James according to John was harsh to Jesus and Paul was Osama Bin Laden of the first century AD.

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#4
Its well known here that I look at our Creator as a Macro, rather than a Micro manager. With that in mind, it is more than possible that the 'allegory' aspect is again used here, in order to add to the impact of the story. And none of this takes away from the importance of the message, or the event.

None of this affects my belief one way or the other. I continue to view Jesus as the Messiah, which was accurately forecast in the Old Testament several hundred years prior to his coming. All of this verifies, rather than questions, things in my opinion.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#5
John,

The eyewitnesses and their martyrdom are more important with me, but, things like this certainly don't hurt my faith.

I always assumed it happened anyway, but, to find evidence for it is neat , too.

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#6
Heck, after re-reading it, the timing is open to severe questioning. I should have paid closer attention.
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#7
Why do you believe in the 1,800 years old myths of Jesus, but dismiss the living Jesus? What if he's the one who's right, and not believing in him leads to eternal damnation?



"You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." Dick Cheney
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#8
Quad,

This one doesn't have any of the varied credentials the Messiah must have. No one can after 70 AD when the Romans burned down the Temple where genealogical records were kept. He's not even an ethnic Jew, "eliminated"!
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#9
I don't think that a solar eclipse would explain the darkness that spread over the earth when Jesus died on the Cross. The testimony of Matthew, Mark, and Luke is that the darkness lasted from the sixth hour to the ninth hour. (See Matt. 27:45; Mark 15:33; Luke 23:44.) Solar eclipses only last a few minutes. God must have used some other means to produce the long-lasting darkness.

The earthquake evidence is interesting, but does not pin it down to one year.

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#10
(05-26-2012, 05:32 PM)Palladin Wrote: Quad,

This one doesn't have any of the varied credentials the Messiah must have. No one can after 70 AD when the Romans burned down the Temple where genealogical records were kept. He's not even an ethnic Jew, "eliminated"!

My point exactly. Why care about this Jewish crap if you ain't a Jew? Jesus is an ethnic Jew. Eliminated.
"You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." Dick Cheney
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#11
(05-27-2012, 12:20 PM)quadrat Wrote:
(05-26-2012, 05:32 PM)Palladin Wrote: Quad,

This one doesn't have any of the varied credentials the Messiah must have. No one can after 70 AD when the Romans burned down the Temple where genealogical records were kept. He's not even an ethnic Jew, "eliminated"!

My point exactly. Why care about this Jewish crap if you ain't a Jew? Jesus is an ethnic Jew. Eliminated.

I'm still wondering why you are so vexed about others "care about this Jewish Crap"? And yet you are more concerned about it than anyone else. Are we witnessing more Projection here?

___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#12
I'm an anti-theist. Ridiculing religions from every angle is in the job description. My way to better the world one post at a time. In the Thailand forums I have fun with Buddhism.
"You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." Dick Cheney
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#13
Quad,

Cause Yahweh created this "Jewish Crap" to work through because all the Gentiles had decided to worship fallen creatures. I worship the creator, not the created. If you'd like to study up on ancient Gentiles' religions, there is enough literature available to spend years seeing what their gods were like. It wouldn't have been a hard choice 4000 years ago, isn't today.

Back then the Gentiles worshipped parts of creation that had higher intellect than we do, today modern pagans often worship lower parts of creation as you do. That's some serious evolution in reverse isn't it?

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#14
Sigh... There is no creation but what comes out of human imagination. No Gods. No spirits. No poltergeists. There is nothing there.
"You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." Dick Cheney
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#15
So then, Quadrat, how is it that the universe exists? We didn't create it out of our imaginations. The universe could not have created itself. That is the biggest burden atheists must carry--having to explain something that is impossible without intelligent design.
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#16
Are you human? If so, why don't you have my memory?

http://ai-jane.org/bb/thread-12355.html

Your deity dosn't exist by default, and infinite regress. I don't have to explain anything. Your god has to provide proof of his power if you want to make me to live according to your rules, otherwise, leave me the fuck alone.
"You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." Dick Cheney
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#17
Quad,

It's the question you guys can't even begin to answer. At least the Taoist says the universe is a god.

If a paper bag cannot create itself, explain how the universe and all in it did?

Thank you,

Palladin your patient friend
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#18
(05-29-2012, 02:53 PM)quadrat Wrote: Are you human? If so, why don't you have my memory?

http://ai-jane.org/bb/thread-12355.html

Your deity dosn't exist by default, and infinite regress. I don't have to explain anything. Your god has to provide proof of his power if you want to make me to live according to your rules, otherwise, leave me the fuck alone.

PSST!, hey "Q", when you wish to link to a particular post, you don't have to link to the head of each page. That is self-defeating.

Here is what you do. Just go to the post you wish to refer to, and look to the right of the post. On the right hand side there will be a "Post #". If you move your cursor over it, it will highlight the link. Then just right click and copy the link. Then go back and paste that link to your post, and it will always take the reader to that link.

Try it sometimes, ok? But just don't go crazy over it. S5

___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#19
(05-29-2012, 03:48 PM)Palladin Wrote: Quad,

It's the question you guys can't even begin to answer. At least the Taoist says the universe is a god.

If a paper bag cannot create itself, explain how the universe and all in it did?

Thank you,

Palladin your patient friend


The sheer size of the universe, and complexity of stuff in it makes the suggestion that it was created nonsense of mindbogling proportions. Where is your good lord hiding? Before the big bang? How did he get there himself?
A creator might have been a good explanation in the Bronze age, but the more our knowledge about everything has grown, and the more complexity we discovered, the more more implausible became the creator. You know it yourself, instinctively. Nothing the good book says reflects the reality around you.

On a funny note, your argument about the paper bag is rather ours. We use tea. It goes like this: who created the cup of tea? There is nothing obvious about tea plants that says take me, dry me, ground me, put me in a container of china with boiling water, add sugar and milk. It's been evolution, trial and error.
"You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." Dick Cheney
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#20
But that so-called evolution of the cup of tea begs the question, Quadrat. The trial and error was done by intelligent beings. The tea plant and the leaves and the processes involved, and the boiling water, not to mention the teacup--certainly did not come together of their own accord and create anything.

As for the size of the universe--the bigger it is, the more complex it is, the less likely that it created itself somehow. You may imagine you are positing a problem for us by pointing at the size of the universe. But the same problem is immensely bigger for those who would deny the existence of a Creator. At least we have an explanation that is reasonable.

It stands to reason that the universe was Created by an Intelligence. What alternative is there? If you won't accept Intelligent Design, then what alternative can you suggest?
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