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Coffee Drinkers Live Longer?
Water vs. caffiene is not a valid comparison. We need water. We do not need caffiene.

When Ellen G. White wrote her counsels concerning coffee and tea, the word caffiene was unknown.

It is possible there is something besides the caffiene that is objectionable. I believe coffee and tea also contain tannic acid--the same thing that is used to tan leather. And there is something very peculiar about tea. Conventional tea is "cured," so that it turns black. I am very suspicious of that. I have drank green tea and white tea. All are from the same plant. Green tea is not cured, and white tea comes from the newer, more immature leaves. For some reason, green tea has less caffiene than regular black tea, and white tea has less caffiene than green tea.
Evidently White was wrong about coffee.

...Unless living longer and healthier is objectionable. If you look hard, you'll probably find stuff she never warned about is dangerous, too.

Water can kill. Some people never drink water because the local stuff is toxic. Nothing survives reality. Some people don't drink milk. Some people have unreasonable phobias, but like Justin Playfair said in They Might be Giants, Don Quixote may be right, because the windmills really might have been giants, after all. In an insane world, it is the same who are crazy and the insane who get it.
(05-30-2012, 05:03 PM)WmLambert Wrote: No, Ron. It may be the healthiest drink there is.

Too much water can kill you.

Are you talking about drowning?
"You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." Dick Cheney
Good one, Quadrat. And for that matter, you could drown in coffee.

I do not accept it as proven that caffiene is good for you. I question any "studies" that claim such as being spurious, since they contradict so many contrary studies. Bill, you are believing what you want to believe, not what is really proven by sound evidence. Ellen G. White gave many evidences that she was divinely inspired. I think what she said about coffee came from God, trying to warn us about improper use of what He intended as a stimulant for emergency use. Our Creator is the one who would be best informed about what things are good for us, and what things are to be avoided. I am thankful that God cares enough about us to give us such information, even in modern, post-Biblical times.

I would remind you of the massive, government-sponsored studies involving tens of thousands of Seventh-day Adventists, that SDAs on average live 12 years longer than the general population, and this despite the fact that not all SDAs follow Ellen G. White's counsels.
From my 2005 archives:

Quote:Coffee is good for you.

Coffee: The New Health Food?
Plenty of health benefits are brewing in America's beloved beverage.
By Sid Kirchheimer
WebMD Feature
Reviewed by Michael W. Smith, MD

Want a drug that could lower your risk of diabetes, Parkinson's disease, and colon cancer? That could lift your mood and treat headaches? That could lower your risk of cavities?

If it sounds too good to be true, think again.

Coffee, the much maligned but undoubtedly beloved beverage, just made headlines for possibly cutting the risk of the latest disease epidemic, type 2 diabetes. And the real news seems to be that the more you drink, the better.
Reducing Disease Risk

After analyzing data on 126,000 people for as long as 18 years, Harvard researchers calculate that compared with not partaking in America's favorite morning drink, downing one to three cups of caffeinated coffee daily can reduce diabetes risk by single digits. But having six cups or more each day slashed men's risk by 54% and women's by 30% over java avoiders.

Though the scientists give the customary "more research is needed" before they recommend you do overtime at Starbuck's to specifically prevent diabetes, their findings are very similar to those in a less-publicized Dutch study. And perhaps more importantly, it's the latest of hundreds of studies suggesting that coffee may be something of a health food -- especially in higher amounts.

In recent decades, some 19,000 studies have been done examining coffee's impact on health. And for the most part, their results are as pleasing as a gulp of freshly brewed Breakfast Blend for the 108 million Americans who routinely enjoy this traditionally morning -- and increasingly daylong -- ritual. In practical terms, regular coffee drinkers include the majority of U.S. adults and a growing number of children.

"Overall, the research shows that coffee is far more healthful than it is harmful," says Tomas DePaulis, PhD, research scientist at Vanderbilt University's Institute for Coffee Studies, which conducts its own medical research and tracks coffee studies from around the world. "For most people, very little bad comes from drinking it, but a lot of good."

Consider this: At least six studies indicate that people who drink coffee on a regular basis are up to 80% less likely to develop Parkinson's, with three showing the more they drink, the lower the risk. Other research shows that compared to not drinking coffee, at least two cups daily can translate to a 25% reduced risk of colon cancer, an 80% drop in liver cirrhosis risk, and nearly half the risk of gallstones.

Coffee even offsets some of the damage caused by other vices, some research indicates. "People who smoke and are heavy drinkers have less heart disease and liver damage when they regularly consume large amounts of coffee compared to those who don't," says DePaulis.

There's also some evidence that coffee may help manage asthma and even control attacks when medication is unavailable, stop a headache, boost mood, and even prevent cavities.

Is it the caffeine? The oodles of antioxidants in coffee beans, some of which become especially potent during the roasting process? Even other mysterious properties that warrant this intensive study?

Actually, yes.

Some of coffee's reported benefits are a direct result of its higher caffeine content: An eight ounce cup of drip-brewed coffee contains about 85 mg -- about three and a half times more than the same serving of tea or cola or one ounce of chocolate.

"The evidence is very strong that regular coffee consumption reduces risk of Parkinson's disease and for that, it's directly related to caffeine," DePaulis tells WebMD. "In fact, Parkinson's drugs are now being developed that contain a derivative of caffeine based on this evidence."

Caffeine is also what helps in treating asthma and headaches. Though not widely publicized, a single dose of pain reliever such as Anacin or Excedrin contains up to 120 milligrams -- what's in a hefty mug o' Joe.
Boost to Athleticism

It's also caffeine -- and not coffee, per se -- that makes java a powerful aid in enhancing athletic endurance and performance, says physiologist and longtime coffee researcher Terry Graham, PhD, of the University of Guelph in Canada. So powerful, in fact, that until recently, caffeine in coffee or other forms was deemed a "controlled" substance by the Olympic Games Committee, meaning that it could be consumed only in small, designated amounts by competing athletes.

"What caffeine likely does is stimulate the brain and nervous system to do things differently," he tells WebMD. "That may include signaling you to ignore fatigue or recruit extra units of muscle for intense athletic performance. Caffeine may even have a direct effect on muscles themselves, causing them to produce a stronger contraction. But what's amazing about it is that unlike some performance-enhancing manipulation some athletes do that are specific for strength or sprinting or endurance, studies show that caffeine positively enhances all of these things."

How does this brew affect growing minds and bodies? Very nicely, it seems, says DePaulis. Coffee, as you probably know, makes you more alert, which can boost concentration. But claims that it improves a child's academic performance can be exaggerated. Coffee-drinking kids may do better on school tests because they're more awake, but most task-to-task lab studies suggest that coffee doesn't really improve mental performance, says DePaulis.

But it helps kids' minds in another way. "There recently was a study from Brazil finding that children who drink coffee with milk each day are less likely to have depression than other children," he tells WebMD. "In fact, no studies show that coffee in reasonable amounts is in any way harmful to children."

On the flip side, it's clear that coffee isn't for everyone. Its legendary jolt in excess doses -- that is, more than whatever your individual body can tolerate -- can increase nervousness, hand trembling, and cause rapid heartbeat. Coffee may also raise cholesterol levels in some people and may contribute to artery clogging. But most recent large studies show no significant adverse affects on most healthy people, although pregnant women, heart patients, and those at risk for osteoporosis may still be advised to limit or avoid coffee.

The bottom line: "People who already drink a lot of coffee don't have to feel 'guilty' as long as coffee does not affect their daily life," says Hu. "They may actually benefit from coffee habits in the long run."

In other words, consume enough caffeine -- whether it's from coffee or another source -- and you will likely run faster, last longer and be stronger. What's enough? As little as one cup can offer some benefit, but the real impact comes from at least two mugs, says Graham. By comparison, it'd take at least eight glasses of cola to get the same effect, which isn't exactly conducive for running a marathon.

But the harder you exercise, the more benefit you may get from coffee. "Unfortunately, where you see the enhancing effects from caffeine is in hard-working athletes, who are able to work longer and somewhat harder," says Graham, who has studied the effects of caffeine and coffee for nearly two decades. "If you a recreational athlete who is working out to reduce weight or just feel better, you're not pushing yourself hard enough to get an athletic benefit from coffee or other caffeinated products."

But you can get other benefits from coffee that have nothing to do with caffeine. "Coffee is loaded with antioxidants, including a group of compounds called quinines that when administered to lab rats, increases their insulin sensitivity" he tells WebMD. This increased sensitivity improves the body's response to insulin.

That may explain why in that new Harvard study, those drinking decaf coffee but not tea beverages also showed a reduced diabetes risk, though it was half as much as those drinking caffeinated coffee.

"We don't know exactly why coffee is beneficial for diabetes," lead researcher Frank Hu, MD, tells WebMD. "It is possible that both caffeine and other compounds play important roles. Coffee has large amounts of antioxidants such as chlorogenic acid and tocopherols, and minerals such as magnesium. All these components have been shown to improve insulin sensitivity and glucose metabolism."

Meanwhile, Italian researchers credit another compound called trigonelline, which gives coffee its aroma and bitter taste, for having both antibacterial and anti-adhesive properties to help prevent dental cavities from forming. There are other theories for other conditions.

WebMD Feature

SOURCES: Tomas DePaulis, PhD, research scientist, Vanderbilt University's Institute for Coffee Studies; research assistant professor of psychiatry, Vanderbilt University Medical Center, Nashville. Terry Graham, PhD, University of Guelph, Canada. Frank Hu, MD, PhD, associate professor of nutrition and epidemiology, Harvard School of Public Health, Boston. Hu, F. Annals of Internal Medicine, January 2004; vol 140; pp 1-8. Benedetti MD, Neurology, July 12, 2000; vol 55; pp 1350-1358. Ross, G. TheJournal of the American Medical Association, May 24, 2000; vol 283; pp 2674-2679. Gazzani, G. Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry, Feb. 27, 2000. Leitzmann, M. TheJournal of the American Medical Association, June 9, 1999, vol 281; pp 2106-2122. Giovannucci, E. American Journal of Epidemiology, June 1, 1998; vol 147; pp 1043-1052. Pagano, R. Chest, August 1988; vol 94; pp 387-389.

Medically updated March 4, 2005
Reviewed on January 26, 2004
© 2004 WebMD, Inc. All rights reserved.
©2005-2007 WebMD, Inc. All rights reserved.
WebMD does not provide medical advice, diagnosis or treatment.

From my archives from 2006:

Quote:Drinking coffee 'is good for the heart'
By Celia Hall, Medical Editor (Filed: 5/12/2006)

One to three cups of coffee a day may protect people from heart disease and strokes, according to research which contradicts numerous studies that have suggested that coffee is bad for you.

The good news for coffee drinkers comes from a report in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition and is based on a study of 27,000 older women, followed for 15 years.

It found a reduced risk of cardiovascular disease by about 30 per cent in women who had a moderate intake of coffee. The analysis, part of the Iowa Women's Health Study, found that up to 60 per cent of antioxidants in the diet may come from coffee.

Antioxidants protect cells from damage and reduce the inflammation that encourages arteries to narrow.

Active parts of coffee include caffeine and polyphenols. Polyphenols are also found in red wine and they too have been linked to a reduction in the risk of cardiovascular diseases in people who drink one to three glasses of red wine a day. The researchers in the Iowa study also pointed out that a Scottish survey of 11,000 men and women found that coffee drinking was associated with a reduction in deaths from all causes.


The Iowa Women's Health Study investigated caffeine intake and postmenopausal breast cancer incidence among 34,388 Iowa women aged 55 to 69. No association was found between coffee and breast cancer. Similarly, a Harvard study of almost 122,000 nurses found that those who drank coffee had lower rates of breast cancer than those who drank no coffee.

A recent study of 61,000 Swedish women over nine years concluded that coffee does not cause colorectal cancer. Several studies have found that coffee drinkers may even have a lower risk of colorectal cancer, but results have not been consistent.

Although some studies have shown that excessive coffee drinking could cause bladder cancer, others have found that it is more likely the excessive smoking along with the coffee that causes this type of cancer.

Caffeine may protect against Parkinson’s disease.
Parkinson’s disease is a progressive nervous disease that destroys dopamine-producing brain cells. The resulting symptoms are tremor, a slowing of movement, weakness and facial paralysis. Researchers believe that caffeine’s helpful effect may be that it reduces the amount of dopamine depleted from the brain.

A Harvard School of Public Health study published last May reported that men who drank four to five cups a day of caffeinated coffee cut the risk of developing Parkinson’s disease nearly in half compared to men who consumed little or no caffeine daily. Women who consumed between one and three cups a day also cut their risk of developing Parkinson’s disease nearly when compared to women who drank less than a cup a day. But this apparent benefit was lost at higher levels of intake.

Caffeine and osteoporosis.
Although caffeine causes more calcium to be excreted in the urine, the Osteoporosis Society of Canada says that two or three cups of coffee are not harmful if you get enough calcium in your daily diet. Dietitians recommend drinking a glass of milk for every mug of coffee, or having a café au lait (preferably with skim milk to keep the fat content down).

Caffeine and athletic performance.
Researchers have found that caffeine enhances physical endurance. However, it does not appear to improve short-term high-intensity activities like sprinting. Since it can raise an athlete's metabolic level, international sports organizations limit the amount that can be found in urine.

Caffeine helps relieve headaches.
Caffeine increases the power of ASA and other pain relievers, and is often combined with them to treat headaches.

Coffee may protect against cirrhosis of the liver.
A study at the Kaiser Permanente Medical Care Program in Northern California that looked at seven years of data found that coffee drinking might be protective against alcoholic cirrhosis of the liver. Studies in Italy and Japan have likewise indicated that coffee may prevent cirrhosis of the liver, a disease causing damage and scarring of the liver tissue, and progressive decreasing of liver function.

Caffeine and heart disease.
European studies have shown that coffee consumption may increase serum cholesterol levels. However, that is due not to the caffeine but to substances called “cafestol” and “kahweol” found in the coffee’s oils. When drinking boiled, unfiltered coffee, as more Europeans do, these substances remain. So long as you drink filtered drip coffee or instant coffee, which Canadians typically tend to do, odds are you’re not increasing your serum cholesterol levels. That’s because filters remove most of these substances, as does the process that goes into making instant coffee.

A Harvard study of 45,589 men, published in 1990, found no link between excessive coffee drinking and heart disease.

These are all huge studies - researched for years. Now, the latest studies just out this past month underscores the same findings.

BTW: quadrat, there are instances where people have died from drinking too much water and dying from it. Everything in moderation. There was nothing "toxic" in the water - just too much water.
There used to be similar magazine articles and "studies" promoting the use of tobacco, mostly from scientists paid by the tobacco companies. These so-called medical and scientific professionals are probably on the payroll of the coffee cartels.

I don't believe a word of it. It is propaganda, not science.
No - each of these research studies are solid and not corrupted, as you can see by checking out any of them. The sheer size and integrity of them overwhelms the purely apocryphal incorrect preconceived notions that some believe with no data. Tobacco studies and Marijuana studies come in several flavors. There are two sides with agendae and the data has been scrubbed in the weaker studies. The real studies are uncontested. Same thing happens with the "gay" gene. There are real studies and frauds.

If you want to check this out, any studies that are favorable to Marijuana spell it "Marihuana" and the antithesis spells it "Marijuana". It's like a secret handshake in a fraternity. (This last point is not scientific, of course, but may make an interesting psychological study of its own, one day.)
I would rather go by what I believe God inspired Ellen G. White to write on the subject.
Why not what Joseph Smith, Jr. was inspired to write in 1840, [the same time frame as White who became famous when the Millerites needed a rationalization for the Great Disappointment? She was a Millerite, wasn't she - and completely sold on that until it was proved wrong?) The Bahá'í Faith see manifestations of God in the common man as "progressive revelations". The Jehovah Witnesses see their publication, The Watchtower as prophetic and inspired by God. Then there is Buddha, Muhammad, Nakayama Miki, and others. Cassandra and Nostradamos all have followers who point out their "truths" as proved by history.

If prophesy exists, it has overlaps and inconsistencies that are ignored by its followers. Since the Bible says you can tell Satan's works by it's results, the conflicting prophesies point his way, not Heavenward, neh? Remember science shows that beliefs happen outside of logic, and then are held religiously regardless of truth or validity. We are designed to believe something, right or wrong, and if it hits the wall and sticks - then you have faith.
(06-04-2012, 12:25 PM)Ron Lambert Wrote: I would rather go by what I believe God inspired Ellen G. White to write on the subject.

My question do you know G-d inspired her? Did G-d tell you? Or did she tell you?

And why 'inspire', when all the Creator has to do is just 'snap' make it so?


Uh, John, that's the "Free will" concept. Tortured and stretched this way and that - it means God wants a creation that can think on its own and not just be automatons. Why He wouldn't just make them that way is another issue.
(06-04-2012, 12:55 PM)WmLambert Wrote: We are designed to believe something, right or wrong, and if it hits the wall and sticks - then you have faith.

Yes I believe that Magdalena Neuner doesn't hit the targets when I watch Biathlon on the telly, that's why I turn it of for a minute when she's on the shooting range.
"You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." Dick Cheney
John L, this is an odd place to put this, but since you asked how I know Ellen G. White was a prophet, I need to put it here:

There are Biblical tests for a prophet. The following is adapted from an article at this link: ( ) I have streamlined and shortened much of this, and also added my own words.

Test Number One: Deuteronomy 18:21-22:

"And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the Lord hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him."

In other words, if a prediction a prophet makes does not come to pass, he is a false prophet! Some valid prophecies may be conditional, such as in the case of Jonah. He prophesied that Nineveh would be destroyed. God told him that if Nineveh didn't repent, He would destroy it, but they heeded Jonah's word and they repented, so God didn't destroy it.

Test Number Two: Numbers 12:6

"And he said, hear now my words: if there be a prophet among you, I the Lord will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream."

According to the Bible, a true prophet of God receives his communications from God by two distinct methods: dreams and visions. Ellen G. White testified that she was called by name in vision, many times talked to Jesus Himself, and was explicitly told that Jesus wanted her to be His messenger to the people.

Test Number Three: Numbers 24:4 and 16

"He hath said, which heard the words of God, which saw the vision of the Almighty, falling into a trance, but having his eyes open...He hath said, which heard the words of God, and knew the knowledge of the most High, which saw the vision of the Almighty, falling into a trance, but having his eyes open:"

Therefore, test number three of these divine manifestations that God gives to identify a true prophet while in vision, is that their eyes remain open.

This perfectly describes what would happen to Ellen White while she was in vision. People in her day would wave their hands in front of her face trying to make her blink. On several occasions men would take their fists and act as if they were going to hit her, then would stop just a couple of inches from her nose! Never once would she blink while in vision. She was oblivious to what was happening around her!

Test Number Four: Daniel 10:17

"For how can the servant of this my lord talk with this my lord? for as for me, straightway there remained no strength in me, neither is there breath left in me."

Another test of a true prophet is that they have no breath while in vision. In other words, they don't breathe….
During some of Ellen White's first visions, people would hold a mirror in front of her mouth to see if there was any condensation on it. One man even came up and put his hand over her nose and mouth to see if she was breathing.

In one instance, there was a spiritualist physician who practiced hypnotism, in Parkville, Maryland, who bragged, "Ellen White just hypnotizes herself. If she ever 'went into vision' when I was around, I'd snap her out of it. She wouldn't pull that kind of stuff around me."

One day she went into vision when this man was in the room. Now was his chance to "snap her out" of her "mesmerized" state. So he went up to her and began doing the things he believed would bring her out of her hypnotized state. Suddenly, he turned and ran for the door. Just as he got out the side door, the deacon grabbed him by the arm and said, "Where are you going, doctor?"

He turned around and in a strangled voice said, "My God! She doesn't breathe!"

Test Number Five: Daniel 10:18

"Then there came again and touched me one like the appearance of a man, and he strengthened me."

Before a vision, a prophet may be very weak in physical strength. But when taken in vision, a true prophet will suddenly receive supernatural strength. On one occasion, Sister White lifted a Bible that weighed approximately 18 pounds, and held it out at arm's length for over 30 minutes! The strongest men could only do this for a couple of minutes. She was a frail woman who weighed less than 100 pounds.…Also, while holding the Bible, Ellen also quoted the scripture on the pages exposed at that moment, without looking at them. One of the brethren climbed up on a chair so he could see where in the Bible she was pointing, and she correctly quoted each text she pointed to.

Test Number Six: Jeremiah 28:9

"The prophet which prophesieth of peace, when the word of the prophet shall come to pass, then shall the prophet be known, that the Lord hath truly sent him."

A true prophet absolutely does not lie. His predictions will be one hundred percent fulfilled—unless, as previously noted, they are conditional prophecies that depend upon the choices people may make. People like Jeanne Dixon are only right about 30% of the time, and brag about it if they ever get up to 60%.

Test Number Seven: 2 Peter 1:20

"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation."

A true prophet does not give his own interpretation of scripture. Every prophecy he or she proclaims will agree with already established truth. If they receive new light, it must agree with the old light God has already given. There can be no exception to this. God never changes, and He IS Truth.

Test Number Eight: 2 Peter 1:21

"For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."

So, a true prophet prophesies in the name of the Lord, not in his own name. A true prophet will manifest the fruits of that same spirit because he or she speaks through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

Ellen G. White wrote her tremendous “Conflict of the Ages” series, which includes Patriarchs and Prophets, Prophets and Kings, The Desire of Ages, The Acts of the Apostles, and The Great Controversy, where she gave a commentary on the key events of Bible history, including the life of Christ, and the final history of the earth up to the time of the end—and beyond. She says that she was privileged to receive visions of many of the scenes she wrote about. Sometimes she gives insights not directly spelled out by Scripture, such as that the Mary who anointed Jesus’ feet at the feast at Simon’s house, and whom Simon despised thinking that if Jesus knew what sort of woman she was He wouldn’t let her touch him, was in fact first led into sin to begin her life of prostitution by Simon himself, who was her uncle.

Test Number Nine: 1 Corinthians 14:3

"But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort."

In other words, a true prophet gives direction to God's true church. And a true prophet's messages will cover all of these three areas: Edification -- to instruct morally; Exhortation -- this means to strongly advise; and Comfort -- to soothe in distress or sorrow, to console. All of these three things will be exemplified by a true prophet. During her lifetime, Ellen G. White wrote and gave thousands of private counsels to individuals concerning things she could not possibly have known about, unless she had been shown them in vision. Some of her counsels which seemed to have more general application, were included in the nine volumes of her Testimonies for the Church.

In one case involving a man who was very advanced in the Masonic Order, Ellen G. White gave counsel to this man that Satan was using Masonry to lead him astray. She also related to him in person things she had seen in vision that took place at a very secret meeting of the Masonic Lodge, and even gave him the secret hand gestures that should only have been known to someone at the highest level of Masonry. The man confessed he was convinced and convicted, and left Masonry, and consented to have her testimony to him published in Testimonies for the Church.

Test Number Ten: Isaiah 8:19-20

"And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them."

How could it be any plainer? God says, "To the law," what's the law? It is the ten commandment law of God, " . . . and to the testimony . . ." What's the testimony? The "testimony" is the rest of scripture. " . . . If they speak not according to this word [the 10 commandments and the Bible], it is because they have no light in them....

Ellen G. White received her first visions while she was still a Sunday-keeper. But she never gave any testimonies calling Sunday the Sabbath. And when the light was presented to her by her brethren that the Sabbath had never been changed, she accepted it and began to teach the seventh-day Sabbath. She espoused the principle of “present truth,” where there is a continual progression in our knowledge of truth, and of the Lord’s leading us into further truth as He sees we are able and ready for it.

Test Number Eleven: 1 John 4:1-3

"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they, are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is in the world."

A true prophet believes in the incarnation of Jesus Christ, and will never question the fact that Jesus came in man's fallen nature, in our fallen flesh. The Bible says any person, or church, claiming that Jesus Christ came to this earth in any other way, than in the fallen flesh that you and I have, is the spirit of antichrist, which would teach us a false Christ to take the place of the true Christ in our affections.

In other words, it's imperative that we understand correctly Christ's human nature while on this earth. Ellen White believed and taught the correct biblical definition of Christ's human nature: He came to this earth in our nature, in our fallen, human flesh. But in spite of that, He never yielded to temptation; He was sinless, and you and I can be victorious over all sin in our life through the power, and the blood, and the strength of our Lord, Jesus Christ, our perfect Example. Hebrews 4:15: "For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities [not Adam's - the infirmities before he fell - he didn't have any - our infirmities] ; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin."
. . . .
Test Number Twelve: Matthew 7:15-16

"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. . ."

In other words, look at what their ministry produces. If all they produce is a good time, with theme parks and water slides, and all they spend their time doing, is telling people to send them money…that person is a false prophet.

In her book Ministry of Healing, published in 1904, Ellen G. White said: "Tobacco is a slow, insidious, but most malignant poison. In whatever form it is used, it tells upon the constitution; it is all the more dangerous because its effects are slow and at first hardly perceptible." (p. 328)

In her book Early Writings, published in 1849, Ellen G. White made the following prediction, concerning the mysterious “rapping” involving the Fox sisters:

“I saw that the mysterious knocking in New York and other places was the power of Satan, and that such things would be more and more common, clothed in a religious garb so as to lull the deceived to greater security, and to draw the minds of God's people, if possible, to those things, and cause them to doubt the teachings and power of the Holy Ghost.” (p. 43)

At that time, there were no mediums, trances, or spirit messages. This is when modern spiritualism originated.

In addition, Ellen G. White had many visions concerning the Civil War, and what was really going on behind the scenes that caused such things as “The Panic of Bull Run.”

In Early Writings she also said: "The nations are now getting angry…." (p. 36)

In an article in the Signs of the Times, Mrs. White wrote: “The tempest is coming, and we must get ready for its fury, by having repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. The Lord will arise to shake terribly the earth. We shall see troubles on all sides. Thousands of ships will be hurled into the depths of the sea. Navies will go down, and human lives will be sacrificed by millions. Fires will break out unexpectedly, and no human effort will be able to quench them. The palaces of earth will be swept away in the fury of the flames. Disasters by rail will become more and more frequent; confusion, collision, and death without a moment's warning will occur on the great lines of travel…. Oh, let us seek God while he may be found, call upon him while he is near!”—April 21, 1890, p. 242.

Ellen G. White also wrote books about health principles, giving extensive counsel that modern experts in the field have testified gave sound and well-balanced guidelines. The influence of those guidelines on the church has been to produce a church membership that government-sponsored studies have shown lives 7-12 years longer than the general population. (Seven years longer for vegetarians, 12 years long for those who are vegans.)

She also gave timely advice on where and when to locate new institutions such as colleges and medical centers, and the church always prospered when it followed her advice. She gave extensive counsels on the principles of true education. Although she had only a third grade education herself, there is hardly any field where she did not give profound comments and advice. The SDA Church now has the largest mission work (including many hospitals and treatment centers) throughout the world of any denomination except the Roman Catholic Church (which has over 100 times the membership), and the largest private educational system of any denomination except the Roman Catholic Church.

Sorry Ron, but I am not going to attempt to wade through all that. But you still didn't get my point, and still use the word 'know' rather than 'assume'. She had died before you were born, so you are going on other's pronouncements, right?

But anyway, I was just asking you that question, and not intending to debate her spiritual clairvoyance.

John L, God has certainly impressed, convinced, and convicted me that Ellen G. White was a genuine prophet, based on evidence such as I provided, including eyewitness testimony of her contemporaries. I do not claim He has spoken to me verbally--that would make me a prophet. Since she died in 1915, what other alternative is there than to go by eyewitness testimony and the evident prescience of her published statements and predictions (of which I only gave a very few examples)?
Here are a few more predictions made by Ellen G. White. Remember, she died in 1915.

Prediction: There would be two world wars, separated by a short time of peace. The second would involve even more nations, and would see millions killed. This was originally published in the Second Advent Review and Sabbath Herald of August 21, 1861:

Quote:I was shown the inhabitants of the earth in the utmost confusion. There was war, bloodshed, want, privation, famine and pestilence, in the land; and as these things were without, God's people began to press together, and cast aside their little difficulties. Self-dignity no longer controlled them. Deep humility took its place. Suffering, perplexity and privation, caused reason to resume its throne, and the passionate and unreasonable man became sane, and acted with discretion and wisdom.

My attention was then called from the scene. There seemed to be a little time of peace. Then the inhabitants of the earth were again presented before me, and everything was in the utmost confusion again. Strife, war and bloodshed, with famine and pestilence, raged everywhere. Other nations were engaged in this confusion and war. War caused famine. Want and bloodshed caused pestilence. And then men's hearts will fail them for fear, "and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth." (Included in Testimonies for the Church, vol. 1, p. 268)

Prediction: Cancer can be spread by "cancerous germs.":

On page 313 of Ministry of Healing, published in 1905, Mrs. White said:

Quote:Flesh was never the best food; but its use is now doubly objectionable, since disease in animals is so rapidly increasing. Those who use flesh foods little know what they are eating. Often if they could see the animals when living and know the quality of the meat they eat, they would turn from it with loathing. People are continually eating flesh that is filled with tuberculous and cancerous germs. Tuberculosis, cancer, and other fatal diseases are thus communicated.
It was not until 1910 that Francis Peyton Rous proved that some cancers are caused by viruses, and it was many more years before it became widely known and accepted. Rous received a Nobel Prize for his work in 1966.

Prediction made in 1901 that might refer to the attack on the World Trade Center on 9/11/2001:

Quote:On one occasion, when in New York City, I was in the night season called upon to behold buildings rising story after story toward heaven. These buildings were warranted to be fireproof, and they were erected to glorify the owners and builders. Higher and still higher these buildings rose, and in them the most costly material was used. . . .

The scene that next passed before me was an alarm of fire. Men looked at the lofty and supposedly fire-proof buildings and said: "They are perfectly safe." But these buildings were consumed as if made of pitch. The fire engines could do nothing to stay the destruction. The firemen were unable to operate the engines.—Testimonies for the Church, vol. 9, pp. 12, 13.

Prediction of increasing disease in animal foods eventually making even dairy products unsafe:

Quote:There is no safety in eating of the flesh of dead animals, and in a short time the milk of the cows will also be excluded from the diet of God's commandment-keeping people. In a short time it will not be safe to use anything that comes from the animal creation. [written in 1898]—Pacific Union Recorder, Nov. 7, 1901.
In recent times we have learned of new diseases such as Mad Cow disease, that can be communicated to humans.

Predictions concerning slavery existing in the time of the end:

Quote:Then commenced the jubilee, when the land should rest. I saw the pious slave rise in triumph and victory and shake off the chains that bound him, while his wicked master was in confusion and knew not what to do; for the wicked could not understand the words of the voice of God. Soon appeared the great white cloud.—Early Writings, p. 35.

At present, Sundaykeeping is not the test. The time will come when men will not only forbid Sunday work, but they will try to force men to labor on the Sabbath. And men will be asked to renounce the Sabbath and to subscribe to Sunday observance or forfeit their freedom and their lives. But the time for this has not yet come, for the truth must be presented more fully before the people as a witness. . . .

Slavery will again be revived in the Southern States; for the spirit of slavery still lives. —Manuscript Releases, vol. 2, p. 299.

On that last statement, note the actual wording of the XIII Amendment to the U.S. Constitution:

Quote:Article XIII.

Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

Note that this wording does allow slavery to be used as punishment for crime. So the Constitution would not even have to be changed for slavery to be revived.

Here is a link to the page where I got these, which has many more predictions:
Pointless to present the worthless rants of this women here. Plants are contaminated with germs as well, the e-coli event last year in Gemany is an example. She lived in the time that discovered germs as the cause of many diseases, there was a lot of speculation that they also cause cancers, and thousands of people wrote their thoughts on this down. The first virae discovered infect plants, and that was during her lifetime. Pestilence isn't caused by want or bloodshed, but germs.
I don't see she mentioned the most important aspect of how to treat food, in a hygienic manner. Wash it, keep it cool, problem solved. That's why her babble is worthless. Meat has always been the best food for humans, only meat contains the proteins needed by the brain. Flesh is completely harmless compared to the sheer number of plants that contain for humans deadly poisons, and plants only are the basis for every single intoxicant known to man, coffee, alcohol, tobacco, drugs.
"You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." Dick Cheney
Q, flesh is not pure and clean and safe. Great precautions must be taken, among them thorough cooking. Meat contains diseases of many kinds, as well as toxins from the environment that are concentrated in animals, especially scavengers (like pigs) and predators. Ellen White wrote many counsels concerning such things as treatment of food in a hygienic manner, including whole books. Her multitudinous counsels on diet and health are taken as virtual blueprints for Adventist sanitariums, hospitals, and other health facilities.

E-coli bacteria is the type of bacteria that normally colonizes the human intestines. It does not get onto plants unless humans contaminate the plants in their handling of them.

Plants do not normally contain alcohol. Alcohol is a decomposition product of yeast acting on some plants or fruits, which is the heart of the process of producing liquor. While some plants contain drugs, such as foxglove contain digitalis which can stop your heart, those drugs also have medicinal value when properly used. Digitalis is used to treat some heart problems.

Pestilence is produced as a result of the conditions involved in starvation and bloodshed. Many outbreaks of cholera and other diseases not normally a problem occur during wartime, especially on the battlefield, in the aftermath of battle, and in areas where military action has made it impossible to cultivate and harvest crops.
Did the hag ever suggest to wash your hands before a meal, or to use knife and fork? There you go. I bet tobacco is a wonderful plant for Miss White when you cook and eat it, just smoking it is bad. It is. But she had no clue why. Pestilence can mean any disease, but is commonly used for the plague. War has nothing to do with it, and diet does nothing about it. Antibiotics do. Read up some people who didn't do guesswork like this woman, but scientists who worked to add real knowledge. Semmelweiss perhaps.
"You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." Dick Cheney
Q--do you have any idea what you are talking about? Of course Ellen G. White advocated washing your hands before a meal. I have never heard of anyone eating tobacco. I have heard of people chewing tobacco. I believe Ellen G. White referred to it as a filthy habit.

Yes, as you said, pestilence can mean any disease. In the past it has meant cholera just as much as it ever meant bubonic plague. It can mean Smallpox. It can mean bird flu. It can mean Mad Cow Disease. War has much to do with it. Even in the case of bubonic plague, during the seige of Constantinople by the Saracens, the Saracens would use catapults to launch the bodies of plague victims over the walls into the city. So in that case war directly involved the spread of pestilence.

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