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The Facts About the Debt Ceiling
#21
(07-25-2011, 04:17 PM)Huh...What? Wrote: Intelligent people generally develop wisdom far quicker than stupid people, who never do. I put him in the "never will, therefore stupid" category.

Ok, then what is your definition of 'intelligent' since you classify Obama as stupid. I contend he is highly intelligent, but very unwise.

And some acquire wisdom faster than others. I can find many less intelligent, who are far wiser than many highly intelligent, such as the Boy Wonder.

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"Falsehood flies, and truth comes limping after it" - Jonathan Swift, 1710
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#22
Intelligence is the ability to learn/reason, especially from the past. It's also the ability to come up with original thoughts. I see no signs that Obama has this ability. He's very good at parroting. I don't think he's very good at original thought. He is certainly not good at thinking through to the logical end of his actions. He does a lot of "This is what I want to be true, therefore it is true." That is not a sign of intelligence.
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#23
It's not worth arguing with you on this. You are doing the same thing you castigate "Q" for doing.
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"Falsehood flies, and truth comes limping after it" - Jonathan Swift, 1710
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#24
And that would be what, exactly?
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#25
Anyone bother to watch the Obama & Boehner show on TV?
Different eyes see different things. Different hearts beat on different strings.
But there are times for you and me when all such things agree.
-Geddy Lee, Rush.
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#26
Huh, Obama is not a moron. You don't know that there was a financial crisis and you expect a booming economy.
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#27
(07-26-2011, 12:07 AM)Armadillo Wrote: Anyone bother to watch the Obama & Boehner show on TV?

S28

I may have funny quirks, but intellectual masochism is not one of them.

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"Falsehood flies, and truth comes limping after it" - Jonathan Swift, 1710
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#28
I watched it. BHO was up to his usual tricks, excoriating big oil, private jet owners, those making 250k or more and hedge fund managers. More vagueness, more generalities, no specifics. He asked people to write their congressman to insist on a "balanced" proposal, i.e. one with tax increases. Perhaps a hint that he might veto any bill that did not include tax increases. Boehner was brief and logical, in 1/3 the time.

Rumor has it that the Senate is considering a debt raising bill with no extra taxes. If it can be modified to meet house Republican demands, it would be interesting to see if BHO will veto it or not. He would probably sign it if the debt limit was increased far enough to get him past the next election, I wot.
Jefferson: I place economy among the first and important virtues, and public debt as the greatest of dangers. To preserve our independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our choice between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude. If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of caring for them, they will be happy.
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#29
Tea Partiers reject a proposal which includes any tax increase on the wealthiest, even small.
Looks like they may veto a bill that include any tax increase, just for the symbolic appearance that they won over Obama.

They may eventualy vote it if it's short enough to put Obama in the nightmarish situation of having to negociate it again during the presidential campain.
A short term increase is of course unacceptable for the markets.

If a short term increase is passed, Obama should lose the elections to let the GOP president struggling with a budget just a penny under the borrowing limit and have a good laugh.
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#30
(07-27-2011, 08:04 AM)Fredledingue Wrote: Tea Partiers reject a proposal which includes any tax increase on the wealthiest, even small.
Looks like they may veto a bill that include any tax increase, just for the symbolic appearance that they won over Obama.

They may eventualy vote it if it's short enough to put Obama in the nightmarish situation of having to negociate it again during the presidential campain.
A short term increase is of course unacceptable for the markets.

If a short term increase is passed, Obama should lose the elections to let the GOP president struggling with a budget just a penny under the borrowing limit and have a good laugh.

Fred, only the president can veto a bill, not congress or the Tea Party, or anyone else.

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"Falsehood flies, and truth comes limping after it" - Jonathan Swift, 1710
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#31
Looks like the House Jackasses are are trying to get the Boy Wonder to skirt the Constitution: Obama urged to invoke 14th Amendment as debt ceiling deadline nears.

Quote:ep. James Clyburn and a group of House Democrats are urging President Barack Obama to invoke the 14th Amendment to raise the debt ceiling if Congress can’t come up with a satisfactory plan before the Tuesday deadline.

Clyburn, the third-ranking House Democrat, said Wednesday that if the president is delivered a bill to raise the debt ceiling for only a short period of time, he should instead veto it and turn to the phrase in the Constitution that says the validity of the U.S. government’s debt “shall not be questioned.”

“If that’s what lands on his desk, a short-term lifting of the ceiling, the debt ceiling, he should put it on his desk next to an executive order,” Clyburn said at a press conference. “He should sign an executive order invoking the 14th Amendment to this issue.” The Associated Press reported that he was applauded when he suggested the idea at a caucus meeting earlier in the day.
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"Falsehood flies, and truth comes limping after it" - Jonathan Swift, 1710
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#32
Ok, please read "reject" instead of "veto".

About the 14th amendment or whatever is invoked to allow Obama to rule alone, I think it's a good thing when the politics are inapt. The Congress and the House can't agree, lawmakers can't even agree in their own camp, but at some point there is a deadline and someone has to trake a decision.
Obama is the guy who will take this decision.
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#33
(07-27-2011, 04:13 PM)Fredledingue Wrote: Ok, please read "reject" instead of "veto".

About the 14th amendment or whatever is invoked to allow Obama to rule alone, I think it's a good thing when the politics are inapt. The Congress and the House can't agree, lawmakers can't even agree in their own camp, but at some point there is a deadline and someone has to trake a decision.
Obama is the guy who will take this decision.

Fred, there are one or two learned essays recently about this fourteenth amendment thing, and it is a ruse. It's unconstitutional and will never fly, once it is headed for court. And I can tell you that if it reaches the courts before the election, that and the ObamaCare suit will do Obama more harm than he could ever imagine.

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"Falsehood flies, and truth comes limping after it" - Jonathan Swift, 1710
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#34
Morticia interviews The Judge on this very issue.

Interview
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"Falsehood flies, and truth comes limping after it" - Jonathan Swift, 1710
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#35
The 4th section of the 14th:
"Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. ... "

Rather vague. What does "shall not be questioned" mean? Perhaps a constitutional crises is what is needed.

Jefferson: I place economy among the first and important virtues, and public debt as the greatest of dangers. To preserve our independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our choice between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude. If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of caring for them, they will be happy.
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#36
Obama is against changing the constitution. Is not against a balanced budget.
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#37
Of course he's not against a balanced budget. That would be political suicide, after all. But there's more than one way to balance a budget. One is to radically cut government spending. The other is to radically raise taxes. Which do you think Obama favors?
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#38
(07-30-2011, 10:10 AM)Fredledingue Wrote: Obama is against changing the constitution. Is not against a balanced budget.

Fred, actions indeed do speak louder than words. Can you point us to where he has done more than offer words to that effect?

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"Falsehood flies, and truth comes limping after it" - Jonathan Swift, 1710
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#39
The truth is that I have not been all excited about the new deal worked out by everyone. But I was pleased to see that the Balanced Budget Amendment would be voted on.

However, I have been listening to Rush in the background, in the shop, and started paying attention to him, somewhere in the middle of him stating that this is a horrible plan. Obama is going to take advantage of ending of the Bush tax cuts, and also go after the middle class, in order to 'pay their share'.

I think he is right, the GOP has been snookered again. But only time will tell, and if the house membership allows this to be voted on, before reading all the fine print, everyone is going to get hurt.

And there is this from England, where we can almost always count on finding out the real facts, since the MSM is not going to give it to us: Middle classes to be hit by tax increase by the back door

Quote:President Barack Obama today faced furious reaction to his last-minute debt deal, with experts slamming the agreement as a cruel means of hitting middle classes with tax hikes 'through the back door'.

The President and congressional leaders last night finally announced an agreement on emergency legislation to avert the nation's first-ever financial default.

But while the dramatic resolution briefly lifted a cloud that had threatened the still-fragile economic recovery, critics said in the long run the middle classes would bear the brunt of the country's massive debt, with increased taxes set to cover for the White House's reluctance to cut public spending.

Please read the rest of this, and don't forget to take a couple of benzodiazepines before beginning to read.

The point is that you cannot trust either party, and especially the Jackasses, to be anything but in favour of "Tax and Spend" kooks, and they are spending everyone else's money, like there is no tomorrow.

No wonder the stock market is in a funk over all this. S4
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"Falsehood flies, and truth comes limping after it" - Jonathan Swift, 1710
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#40
The middle class and poor are always hit by any tax increase. Any tax increase is accompanied by price increases on the goods/services supplied by those taxed to cover the new taxes
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