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The divided states of Europe
#61
Cameron just want to secure the financial hub of the City, all the crooks who did the massive pubprime and then soveriegn losses for millions of investors and eventualy bankrupted the country.
Of course he doesn't like the idea of the European Commission looking into that!
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#62
(12-12-2011, 05:35 PM)Fredledingue Wrote: Cameron just want to secure the financial hub of the City, all the crooks who did the massive pubprime and then soveriegn losses for millions of investors and eventualy bankrupted the country.
Of course he doesn't like the idea of the European Commission looking into that!

Fred. Fred. It doesn't matter what Cameron wants in the short run. Really, it doesn't. What matters is what I stated earlier. The two systems are incompatible with each other. The overwhelming majority of Brits are not, I repeat....not going to give up their sovereignty to a bunch of Franco-German Statists Over There, Period! And this is something the other nations on the mainland really need to learn before they allow the noose to be drawn too tightly around their necks.

I'm serious here.

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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#63
First off there will never be a tea party movement in the Franco-German countries, they just don't think this way, although it is slowly changing. In order to have a tea party movement you have to be willing to focus on the rights of the individual, but Germans especially are way too concerned what others might think about them. This causes them to always view themselves through the eyes of others resulting in their collectivist tendencies. Even when they disagree with something, if they perceive that others agree, they will choose to be agreeable rather than stand up for what they believe.

As for tribalism. You are mad nuts or stupid to think Germans don't think this way. Two neighboring villages always have a deep seeded resentment of one another and in some areas even different discernible dialects, and it spills out in some very weird ways. The farther away you get the greater the dislike.
"And down through the centuries the robes have never failed to keep the public at a respectful distance, inspire a decent awe for the professions, and impart an air of solemnity and mystery that has been as good as money in the bank. The four faculties of theology, philosophy, medicine, and law have been the perennial seedbeds, not only of professional wisdom, but of the quackery and venality so generously exposed to public view by Plato, Rabelais, Molière, Swift, Gibbon, A. E. Housman, H. L. Mencken, and others. What took place in the Greco-Roman as in the Christian world was that fatal shift from leadership to management that marks the decline and fall of civilizations." - taken from a speech by Hugh Nibley
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#64
John, Cameron said himself that the reason why they rejected the pact was that it's a treath to the financial businesses of the City. (mentioned "the City")

He didn't even concealed the fact that he is bending to bankers.

UK has a tradition of off-shore banking. British banks sent billion to Iceland off shore accounts before Iceland crashed in 2009, Gernesey is the equivalent of your Caiman Islands -just the climate is different-.

It has nothing to do with sovereignty, or typical anglo-saxon individualism. Not this time.

Especialy since the Franco-German pact doesn't concern the rights of the individuals. Don't mix the liberty of the individual persons and that of the individual countries. Countries are not individuals.

The pact concern the ability or the inability thereof of countries to spend above their means. And because banks make huge profits selling sovereign bounds, you will understand that Cameron wants to protect this industry.
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#65
Fred, just because someone tells you one thing does not mean that that is the main reason in the person's mind. Cameron may have been discussing the immediate point, but he was not telling everyone the underlying reason. I just explained the main underlying reason. It's deep and you won't see it because there are a lot of things obscuring it.
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#66
John, seriousely, given all the anger against the banks here (and in the UK) with the Occupy Movement and such, Cameron would have done better telling some nationalist or something about the right of the poeple or the right for democracy or some obscure deep reasons, I'm sorry evade me at the moment, or any other BS that sounds like a good street prostest slogan rather than just saying "Yeah, we want to protect the banks (again)".

Protecting the banks is precisely what poeple hate right now and are angry over, and you have this politician saying that he's doing just that.
I know the election season in UK is far away but still...
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#67
Quote:Terror cleric Abu Qatada CANNOT be deported to Jordan because it breaches his human rights, European judges rule

A hate cleric described as Osama bin Laden's right-hand man in Europe could be released to a life on benefits in months after a court ruled he could not be deported from the UK.

In a blow to British government, radical Muslim, Abu Qatada was told by the European Court of Human Rights he would not have to go back to Jordan where he has been convicted of terror charges in his absence and may even walk free some time in the spring.

The UK now has three months in which to appeal against the ruling, but if the government does not do this, Qatada - once described as 'a truly dangerous individual' - could walk free.

This is because he is not currently facing trial in Britain and has not been convicted in accordance with UK law..

European judges ruled that he could not be deported because 'there remains a real risk that evidence obtained by torture will be used against him' and he would not receive a fair trial.

Qatada is an iconic figure for many supporters of Jihad and today's ECHR decision flies in the face of UK law Lords who ruled almost three years ago that he could be sent back to Jordan.

It is the first time the Strasbourg-based court has found that an expulsion would be in violation of the right to a fair trial.

This is what one can expect should Libtards accomplish their goal of one world government. However, when it comes to native Brits, apparently they have no rights under their legal system.
'It's not who votes that matters, it's who counts the votes'  |  György Schwartz, Budapest, Hungary
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#68
Extradite him to Hades.
Jefferson: I place economy among the first and important virtues, and public debt as the greatest of dangers. To preserve our independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our choice between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude. If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of caring for them, they will be happy.
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#69
(12-13-2011, 09:18 AM)TheMan Wrote: As for tribalism. You are mad nuts or stupid to think Germans don't think this way. Two neighboring villages always have a deep seeded resentment of one another and in some areas even different discernible dialects, and it spills out in some very weird ways. The farther away you get the greater the dislike.

Good point, and they also support different football clubs. I guess the problem is that Germans don't fly a German flag or two on the roofs of their homes, and another two in the garden. We are aware when we are in Germany, without pointing it out. Did you know there are about 100 times more flags of football clubs in private possession than national flags? Here's a pic of a German village. No black, red and gold flag whatswhoever. That stinks of tribalism.

[Image: burg-bibra-landkreis-schmalkalden-meinin...-26603.jpg]
"You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." Dick Cheney
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#70
It looks like things are about to become even more divided, and we are not just talking about the PIIGS either. Matthew Lynn, founder of Strategy Economics, says that The Euro is Already a ‘Zombie Currency’. This is going to be interesting, and a Suicide Watch needs to be started. Personally, I'm surprised it is still carrying on, even if it is dead on its feet.

Quote:Lynn believes that any progress made by European politicians is irrelevant as the euro has already turned into a “zombie currency”.

He says countries can no longer use the single currency for imports meaning it is effectively ceasing to act like money.

“There are already reports that oil traders don't want to supply clients in Greece,” Lynn said.

“Why not? Because in six months’ time when payment falls due they may not get paid in the currency the deal was struck in – but one worth much less.”

Lynn says that wealthy European investors are fleeing the euro to safe-havens such as the London property market.

He warns that the euro is de-monetizing because trade has stopped flowing, investment has been postponed, output has declined and unemployment has begun to rise.

He suggests that peripheral member states with high bond yields should be allowed to leave the euro and predicts that their recovery would be swift if they were allowed to do so.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#71
It looks like the toes of Daniel's image in Daniel 2 are still divided:

Quote:"Whereas you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter's clay and partly of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; yet the strength of the iron shall be in it, just as you saw the iron mixed with ceramic clay. And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken. And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay." (Daniel 2:41-43; NKJV)

Even intermarrying all the royal houses of Europe did not work to unify Europe. Looks like having one currency, the Euro, is not going to work, either.
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#72
Reading what this expert is writing I can all but think how desperate those who bet against the euro must be.
To pay to publish such a string of nonsens and lies is truely a sign of desperation.

he Wrote:He suggests that peripheral member states with high bond yields should be allowed to leave the euro
They are already allowed to leave the euro. Nobody forces anyone to stay if they don't meet the requirements anymore.
But no one wants to leave the second strongest currency in the world for a reason.

he Wrote:and predicts that their recovery would be swift if they were allowed to do so.
Sure! want to see that! With 1000% annual inflation (new currency depreciation to be more exact), there will be a flood of large denomination banknotes! Hahaha!
What a buffoon!

he Wrote:Having any kind of functioning currency, even if it is one that has hugely depreciated in value, and doesn't have much respect in the currency markets, is a lot better than having no currency at all.”
Yes, in Italy, Spain, Portugal and south of France, we can't find any coin or banknotes anymore. Poeple must bring something to bart against if they want to buy food. For valuable goods like cars or electronic gold and diamonds are accepted.
When poeple try to take money from ATMs, it reads "Sorry your account is acredited a certain amount, but no currency is attached to this amount. Please try again another day."
When we negociate trade payment on the telephone we usualy say:"How would you like to be paid: in corn, weath or olive oil (esp. Greece)... What?... No, sorry we don't have what you call 'currencies'."
ROTFLMAO! S6

he Wrote:wealthy European investors are fleeing the euro to safe-havens such as the London property market.
No way they put their money in this. Does he realy think people are that stupid here?

he Wrote:He says countries can no longer use the single currency for imports meaning it is effectively ceasing to act like money.
Well, if some british wants to by stuff from an euro zone company they will have to pay in euro (€). No other currency accepted, (unless they pay a special fee for money convertion at their own loss).
Now if we import, we do pay in the currency the seller asks. It can be american dollars, australian dollars, renminbis, whatever...
It's their problem not ours. Doesn't mean our currency ceased to exist.

he Wrote:The euro is already dead. It no longer meets most of the criteria of a working form of money,
I'll show him a banknote out of my wallet and go with him to any shop in any of the 17 euro currency countries and he will see if it stopped functioning.
...
€100 is still buying for €100 of goods, you know.
...and... yes it's still work! Whaaa! Cool heh?

Well why do I lose time writing this anyway???
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#73
Euro is still stronger than the $. The idea was an exchange rate of 1:1, remember? You Americans must be jealous that your states have none of the liberties a country of the EU has to change its laws.
UK for example just increased the income threshold to £18,600 before they can bring a foreign spouse or partner to the UK. A very reasonable law which doesn't exist in the People's Republic of America, where each bum without income of his or her own can import his or her private Mexican to suck the welfare system dry. Isn't socialism great?
"You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." Dick Cheney
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#74
(08-22-2012, 06:24 PM)John L Wrote: It looks like things are about to become even more divided, and we are not just talking about the PIIGS either. Matthew Lynn, founder of Strategy Economics, says that The Euro is Already a ‘Zombie Currency’. This is going to be interesting, and a Suicide Watch needs to be started. Personally, I'm surprised it is still carrying on, even if it is dead on its feet.

And speaking of suicide, Depression, Suicides Rise as Euro Debt Crisis Intensifies.

Quote:Europe is approaching a crisis as the region’s debt crisis and austerity measures increase the rates of depression, suicide and psychological problems – just as governments cut healthcare spending by up to 50 percent, according to campaigners, policy makers and health organizations.

A growing number of global and European health bodies are warning that the introduction and intensification of austerity measures has led to a sharp rise in mental health problems with suicide rates, alcohol abuse and requests for anti-depressants increasing as people struggle with the psychological cost of living through a European-wide recession.

“No one should be surprised that factors such as unemployment, debt and relationship breakdowns can cause bouts of mental illness and may push people who are already vulnerable to take their own lives,” Richard Colwill, of the British mental health charity Sane, told CNBC.

“There does appear to be a connection between unemployment rates and suicide for example,” he said, referring to a recent study in the British Medical Journal that stated that more than 1,000 people in the U.K. may have killed themselves because of the impacts of the recession. “This research reflects other work showing similar rises in suicides across Europe.”
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"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#75
Well, those who kill themseles just because they are short money deserve it. No goernement backed healthcare would save them.
There are billions of poeple living in dire poverty and who don't commit suicide.

Also healthcare spendings were cut by 50% in Greece only.
In other places it's more like 5% or 10% if any.
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#76
And in true form with this thread, while EuroLand may look like one country, it is on the verge of becoming a bunch of splintered states once more.

Here is something to ponder seriously: 42% of Austrians think Hitler rule wasn't all bad. But there is more:

Quote:54% answered that neo-Nazi groups would be successful in the Austrian elections, if there was no law banning them.

The point here is that the combination of Democracy, Welfare State Euro-Socialism, and runaway spending, has created such conditions that almost all of Europe is ripe for the advent of strong leaders, i.e. tyrants, who will be able to promise the citizenry security from bankruptcy, and get elected via democracy. Later they can fabricate an emergency and take over as dictators, while finding a scapegoat for all their perceived problems.

Also, who needs an official neo-Nazi party to obtain this? Any legal party will do nicely, as long as the leadership is controlled by the right individuals.

I've talked about this earlier, and still believe that the only group able to fill the bill here, as perfect scapegoats, will be Muslims. And that will lead to conflict like there is no tomorrow on the continent of Europe. In fact, one or more major continental cities will probably feel the effects of nuclear terrorism.

This is all going to begin happening in pretty rapid order once the EU, and the Euro, collapse. Then just sit back and watch RealityTV start happening to a television nearest you.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#77
Yes, many European countries are almost ready for a real demagogue. But not quite, I think.

The problem is that the thought that staying in the EU is more worthwhile than leaving it still persists, and it will be difficult to get rid of until times get worse or a superior demagogue comes along.
Jefferson: I place economy among the first and important virtues, and public debt as the greatest of dangers. To preserve our independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our choice between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude. If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of caring for them, they will be happy.
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#78
They assume it helps them economically to be in. Probably does most of them doesn't it? No tariffs,etc?
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#79
Yep, the goodies of free trade keeps the strong ones in and the bailout money keeps the weak ones in. That is why it is so hard for a demagogue to convince them to drop out. But at some point the murkiness will disappear if the stress continues.
Jefferson: I place economy among the first and important virtues, and public debt as the greatest of dangers. To preserve our independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our choice between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude. If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of caring for them, they will be happy.
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#80
(03-16-2013, 05:16 PM)Palladin Wrote: They assume it helps them economically to be in. Probably does most of them doesn't it? No tariffs,etc?

Patrick, they already had that with the European Economic Community, known as the European Common Market. The Treaty of Rome established this in 1957. Tariffs were ended, borders could be crossed without passports, and a host of nice freedoms. But the countries retained their autonomy, and currency.

But being the consummate Statists they were, they just had to Bugger things up by taking the simple and making it complicated. Imagine that.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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