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Middle East Meltdown - 1
#1
Tunisia, the most successful country of North Africa finaly slipped into chaos. Their dictator fled and Tunisia forces battle with gunmen.

Fortunately, the islamists are not yet part of it. But they will come IMO.
#2
They probably had lots to do with behind the scenes.
'It's not who votes that matters, it's who counts the votes'  |  György Schwartz, Budapest, Hungary
#3
Islamists were not the main force at the beginning of the Iranian revolution. Communists were not one at the beginning of the Russian revolution, nor in the series of Chinese revolutions that ended with establishment of PRC. Ditto for the serious of Afghan coups of 1970 that eventually delivered power to Communists and then to Islamists.

Does it matter? Wink1 --- if the revolution is successful, it will radicalize most likely into an Islamist dictatorship. Which can then infect currently secular Algeria, Morocco, and Frogistan.
Sodomia delenda est

#4
I think the main animation in Tunisia was the terrible economy caused the people to start looking for a cause and the old guy and his wife have had a good time on Tunisia's dime.

Things were fine until the prolonged economic blahs.

To MV's point,the most determined/ruthless and organized bad guy wins the brass ring everytime.

I suspect the Tunisians will severely regret the last week's fruits before too long.
#5
yep.

I find it amusing that Celeste's forecast for 2011 as well as Stratfor's talk about spontaneous unrest by unemployed young professionals undermining European regimes...but instead the unraveling begins in Arabland.
Sodomia delenda est

#6
been there in 1995, didn't like it. obtrusive, greedy people, the country a hot mess of sand, rocks, and trash. still had the same president 15 years later, behold. recall they were proud that women were equal, saw few veiled ones. wanted to visit carthage, but there's little left to see. the presidental palace bordered the ruins, and i thought about half of their military was there for its security. still use a camel-leather bag i bought there, tough beasts. get an al queda government now, who cares?
"You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." Dick Cheney
#7
Decent article here. Violent revolts rarely turn out well:

HERE
#8
Good find. Should watch her for more bits of wisdom...she makes sense.
Sodomia delenda est

#9
quadrat Wrote:been there in 1995, didn't like it. obtrusive, greedy people, the country a hot mess of sand, rocks, and trash. still had the same president 15 years later, behold. recall they were proud that women were equal, saw few veiled ones. wanted to visit carthage, but there's little left to see. the presidental palace bordered the ruins, and i thought about half of their military was there for its security. still use a camel-leather bag i bought there, tough beasts. get an al queda government now, who cares?


I was there in 1975 and hated the place, their idea of fun was watching a silhouette of a French exotic dancer dancing behind a sheet strung across the stage. They call the cops after we pulled down the sheet several times.
'It's not who votes that matters, it's who counts the votes'  |  György Schwartz, Budapest, Hungary
#10
Quote:Islamist movement at forefront of Tunisia's protests

Tunisia's underground Islamic movement has emerged at the forefront of nationwide protests against its leadership and appears set to emerge as the strongest political force in elections.

Al-Nadha is lead by the London-based exile Rachid Ghannouchi who has said that he will return to the country as soon as the threat of life in prison is lifted.

Mr Ghannouchi has the best claims to an electoral following in Tunisia after the disintegration of the ruling party. He has wide core support at the country's universities and his followers secured 17 per cent in 1989's election – an unrivalled following in Tunisia's rigged electoral system.

Senior lieutenants of the fundamentalist leader were yesterday prominent in the thousands strong crowd that demanded the resignation of all ministers – including Prime Minister Mohammed Ghanouchi – tainted by service to ousted dictator, Zine el-Abidine Ben Ali.

Sadouk Chourou, a Tunis lawyer, has been seen organising groups within the protest.

Ali Laraiedh, the Al-Nadha vice president, said that party activists of the banned movement had been mobilised.

While repeating the group's message, he gives only guarded signals about the agenda the group would pursue if it tastes power. Mr met with the prime minister during the week to set out Al-Nadha's demands.

"The people have not yet achieved everything they could have done. We want a government that is able to make a democracy and that means the prime minister must go," he told The Daily Telegraph. "It is too early to talk about what happens after the election but we will move like other Islamic parties, just that we will be a little more emancipated."

Tunisia's strong record of promoting women's rights and Progressive stance on social issues such as the sale of alcohol is vulnerable as its political system is torn apart by the popular uprising.

Sana Bel Mkaddem, a Tunis resident, said she was fearful her rights would be eroded after elections. "We need to know what the parties represent. Most Tunisians are open-minded and view religion as a private issue but because of the past of this country, I'm worried that we could see the Islamisation that we've seen in other countries."

Traditional views retain a strong following that Al-Nadha could capture in the elections. "The youth need jobs but they also don't understand the faith," said Sara Abid, 65, a restaurant owner. "I hope our country can bring them back to God."

While the party leaders have refused to outline specific plans Ennadha supporters have expectations of change. "I want my fiancé to wear a veil but she says she can't because the university rules don't allow covered women in the classrooms," said one unemployed Tunis man. "I think women can work but must follow the family's wishes."


Rather than ban this Islamic movement they should have killed its leaders. Now we have another mess do deal with in the near future.
'It's not who votes that matters, it's who counts the votes'  |  György Schwartz, Budapest, Hungary
#11
Sodomia delenda est

#12
Islamism is going to wipe off the remnants of modern culture in the whole muslim world.
It's easier to be poor when you fanaticaly believe in God and Religious Rules of the Quran.
#13
Fred,

I wouldn't be so pessimistic. More likely is the vast majority of Muslims will refuse to head backwards culturally after a good,hard fight.

We just happen to be living in the rear guard fanaticism of thinkers like Bin Laden.

After enough suffering,they learn. The people of Fallujah,Iraq were among the most "religious/conservative" Muslims and they got sick of the nonsense over time and actually supported an infidel intervention.

I'm no fan of Islam's,but,I am of humanity,they'll get this right over time.
#14
Fredledingue Wrote:Islamism is going to wipe off the remnants of modern culture in the whole muslim world.
It's easier to be poor when you fanaticaly believe in God and Religious Rules of the Quran.

Yeap, I think it is - well, they will wipe off anything that cannot be used to conquer, such as communications, weapons, etc. Everything else will be backwards.
#15
Are you saying it is not now? There is little of culture to wipe out in the Islamic world.

More of a concern would be

Islamism is going to wipe off the remnants of modern culture in the whole western world.

obviously true... but again I'm not sure if the West will have any culture left by the time of Islamic takeover... the West is self-destructing.
Sodomia delenda est

#16
mv Wrote:Are you saying it is not now? There is little of culture to wipe out in the Islamic world.

More of a concern would be

Islamism is going to wipe off the remnants of modern culture in the whole western world.

obviously true... but again I'm not sure if the West will have any culture left by the time of Islamic takeover... the West is self-destructing.

As the saying goes, When you believe in nothing, in particular, you will believe in anything. Or words to that effect. Clearly the West has lost it's moral compass, and in danger of losing everything else.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

#17
Fredledingue Wrote:Islamism is going to wipe off the remnants of modern culture in the whole muslim world.
It's easier to be poor when you fanaticaly believe in God and Religious Rules of the Quran.
It is also easier to be manipulated by demagogues if you are poor, unfree, subjected to the police state and propagandized by zealots every day who have the power of the gun barrel.

In Pakistan, there is not such autocratic rule (except that the military lurks behind the scenes), however there is rampant corruption and ineptness with various societal problems. This, with poverty, frustrates citizens and makes them susceptible to most any group that promises to improve the decadent order that rules them.
Jefferson: I place economy among the first and important virtues, and public debt as the greatest of dangers. To preserve our independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our choice between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude. If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of caring for them, they will be happy.
#18
jt Wrote:It is also easier to be manipulated by demagogues if you are poor, unfree, subjected to the police state and propagandized by zealots every day who have the power of the gun barrel.

I have a bad feeling that being poor, unfree, or manipulated by democrats has nothing to do with it, the reality is simpler.

Muslims are required to violently shake their heads five times a day, and more devoted specimens hit their heads on the ground for more bang.

Try this for a month, and you will go postal too. Wink1
Sodomia delenda est

#19
They must all have bruised brains by now.
#20
Yes. And this is why, by the way, it is fine to make fun of various Christians, Joose, Buddhists et al, but not the Muslims ... never make fun of handicapped.

Meanwhile ---> EGYPT.
Sodomia delenda est



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