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What Ever Happened To Winning Their Hearts And Minds?
#21
Quote: just think it's an obvious no brainer IF you support USA global hegemony. And you do,so why suggest we should act passively after 9-11?

First, I don't support USA global hegemony unless it comes naturally through our economic prominence. I don't support it if we have to get it through military force.

Second, the appropriate response to 9/11 was to invade AFghanistan, which is what we did. Lashing out on a nation that had nothing to do with 9/11(IraqA)to essentially scare and bully other nations was a bad idea.
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#22
Like bullying those innocent Germans in 1942 after Japan assaulted the USA? Germany was innocent and we had no business with that bunch after Pearl Harbor!

Gosh,that's not a realistic view of the world,IMO.
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#23
Quote:Like bullying those innocent Germans in 1942 after Japan assaulted the USA? Germany was innocent and we had no business with that bunch after Pearl Harbor!

Gosh,that's not a realistic view of the world,IMO.

Iraq didn't attack us. They weren't involved in the attack on us. Period.
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#24
Anonymous24 Wrote:Whether or not Saddam was as bad as Pol Pot etc. is beside the point. The point is: we had no business invading Iraq, even if Saddam was a genocidal maniac.
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The gassing of Kurds in Halabja occured 20 years ago. That had not much with the situation in 2003 to do. And we don't know if this was ordered by Saddam or if it was done by the military without clear presidential orders.

So we cannot say that Saddam was more of a genocidal maniac than the Turks or anyone else in the region. Pol Pot was quite something else since he killed millions of his own citizens.

/track_snake
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#25
Anonymous24 Wrote:
Quote: just think it's an obvious no brainer IF you support USA global hegemony. And you do,so why suggest we should act passively after 9-11?

First, I don't support USA global hegemony unless it comes naturally through our economic prominence. I don't support it if we have to get it through military force.

Second, the appropriate response to 9/11 was to invade AFghanistan, which is what we did. Lashing out on a nation that had nothing to do with 9/11(IraqA)to essentially scare and bully other nations was a bad idea.
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We can all agree that 9/11 had nothing to do with the invasion in Iraq 2003. If I should defend the decisions of the administration at that time I can say that the assault on Iraq was a response to information (at that time) that Saddam possessed WMD:s, a will to spread democracy in the region by attacking Saddam, and a belief that UN inspectors were not doing their job.

But what actually came out was that there were no WMD:s, that it was naive to think that democracy could be spread by destroying the Baath party, and that UN inspectors probably were doing their job as good as they should.

/track_snake
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#26
Anon,

Yes,Iraq has attacked us repeatedly since 1991,but since you consider US service personnnel "not us",you continue this mantra you've assumed.

Most Americams aren't like you yet.

But,in this example I gave you,Germany still hasn't attacked the USA,so we assume you considered our war with Germany wrong,stupid,illegal or some such thought as well.

Germany never took the first shot at an America before we joined in attacking them twice. Germany never attacked us,period. Not even the soldiers whom you see as non entities.
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#27
Quote:But,in this example I gave you,Germany still hasn't attacked the USA,so we assume you considered our war with Germany wrong,stupid,illegal or some such thought as well.

Germany never took the first shot at an America before we joined in attacking them twice. Germany never attacked us,period. Not even the soldiers whom you see as non entities.

They declared war on us first. Within a few days after Pearl Harbor, Germany legally declared war on us. This was before we declared war on them.

Quote:Yes,Iraq has attacked us repeatedly since 1991,but since you consider US service personnnel "not us",you continue this mantra you've assumed.

N. Korean soldiers have taken pot-shots at U.S. troops repeatedly since 1953. Should we invade them?

Put things into context. Iraqi mortars firing on U.S. planes they have no chance of hitting is no justification for war. The only justification for war is a direct attack on our homeland; or a direct attack against an ally.
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#28
So we have no justification for any war in US history other than the second one? War of 1812? Course that wouldn't have happened if we didn't do the first "illegall" war,right?

I don't recall another example where a nation-state attacked the USA.

You oppose NATO as well like me do ya?

Germany declared war on us first? We had been actively supplying logistics for a few years before 1942 silly,we had already taken sides against Germany. The more you try,the less you make sense with this "Iraq didn't attack us nonsense". Neither did Germany! What difference did that make to common sense and the necessity of fighting Germans?
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#29
Quote:So we have no justification for any war in US history other than the second one? War of 1812? Course that wouldn't have happened if we didn't do the first "illegall" war,right?

There's justification for the Revolutionary War, since the British were an occupying power.

The Mexican War was unjust, and indeed many at the time spoke out against it.

The War of 1812 was just because the British attacked us first.

In truth the justification for the Civil War is tricky. I probably could find a reason why it was just, but I'd need to learn more about it. But putting aside being just, it was pragmatically a good idea. Unlike Iraq.

Spanish-American War was immoral but a good idea nonetheless.

WWI there is definitely justification for since the Germans not only declared unlimited submarine warfare against us, but also sent a memo to Mexico urging Mexico to invade the southern U.S.

Vietnam was immoral and a bad idea.

Persian Gulf War was definitely just because Kuwait was our ally. BUT, it was also pragmatic since we didn't try to occupy Iraq.
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