(11-19-2018, 10:38 PM)Ron Lambert Wrote: It has been known for at least 20 years that "stone softening" and the construction of South American ancient walls was done using rhubarb leaves--which is high in oxalic acid, that dissolves calcium carbonate in rocks. I myself have made a soup of rhubarb leaves, put pebbles in it, and seen flakes of dissolved calcium immediately appear in the solution. A lot of the stone blocks that appear high up in the Andes mountains were actually poured there after being liquefied by rhubarb leaf juice.

(11-21-2018, 07:35 PM)WmLambert Wrote: Here's a link for removing Kidney stones and gall stones with Rhubarb juice:

Does this count?

Quote:Abstract

Due to its impressive appearance, Inca masonry, which mostly consists of volcanic, silica containing rock material, has received much attention. A high level of understanding has consequently been reached of the diverse working steps and tools applied. An exception is the reddish mud, “llancac alpa” in the quechua language, and the “gold”, mentioned by early chroniclers as mortar which fitted the stones and later disappeared. Such techniques were related to folklore and not taken seriously. This study tries to understand them and the question was asked: did Inca builders have access to very acid mud? They did, and used the acid mud from their mines, which generated sulphuric acid through bacterial oxidation of pyrite (fools gold). It reaches an acidity of up to pH = 0.5, which is 104 times more acid than humic acid which is known to weather silica containing rocks via silica gel to the clay mineral kaolin. This acid mud allowed dissolving and softening the rock material superficially to a viscoelastic silica gel. The process could be further enhanced more than tenfold by addition of (oxalic acid containing) plant sap, a skill suggested from popular tradition. In special cases moderate heating of crushed pyrite in gaps between chiselled stones generated additional hot sulphuric acid. Where the stone to stone contact transmitted weight, pressure dissolution in the acidic environment removed material, and silica precipitation regenerated material in cracks and pores elsewhere. It is attempted to reconstruct how the Inca builders applied the silica gel technology for shaping stones, for polishing and fitting them. The appearance of shiny and glassy Inca stone junctions and interfaces is explained via solidification of in-situ generated or additionally added silica gel. Modern processes for conservation of stone monuments against environmental deterioration have independently developed similar silica gel based technology.

Quote:There is now very little doubt about how the Ancients actually built these incredible structures and indeed, softened or perhaps melting the stone has always really been the only possible explanation. The ancient Mayans were indeed quite capable of producing very large quantities of
the acids that were used by Dr Davidovits in his experiments from many plants that were quite common to the region in the distant past.
Plants such as: Fruits, Potatoes, Maize, Rhubarb, Rumex, Agave Americana, Opuntia, Ficus Indica and Garlic to name a few.

Quote:Melting Stone With Plants: Was the Mythical 'Green Chisel' A Real Ancient Tool?

.......Ultimately both those substances - Pito and Shamìr - were actually only one with the same formula: hydrofluoric acid, HF, which was extracted from plants. However, they were probably not of the same species because the same plants do not grow in the two geographical areas.

But it is also true that over 40 plants of various species have high contents of the poisonous HF, which they absorb from soil and synthesize, to protect themselves from herbivores, in the form of a compound called fluoroacetic acid.

And to extract hydrofluoric acid from fluoroacetic acid is no more difficult than to make tea: you just have to boil the plant in water, distill the solution, and then concentrate it. HF dissolved in water is manageable, very carefully, at room temperature.

Shamìr/Pito: Continents Apart, Techniques in Common
At this point it is relevant to identify Shamìr and Pito with the richest HF spontaneous plants.

The most probable suspects are Dichapetalum in Africa and Palicourea in South America (coincidentally, the areas of our interest). Both of them are not very attractive and of little economic value, having no known uses (only as a rat poison for Dichapetalum). Today they are not the object of any particular attention.

But, in the mists of time, the discovery of their special virtue, exploited in various ways according to their availability and needs, enabled the first civilizations to create and advance in epigraphy, sculpture, and architecture.

In Peru and Bolivia, where Palicourea abounds, it was used directly and in abundance in the pre-Inca building industry. In Egypt and outside Africa, I believe that only the acid derived from Dichapetalum was used to carry out smaller, expensive works.

Who by, where, and when that precious resource was identified is not known and the "how" is perhaps trivial. Maybe the ancient peoples really noticed what the birds were doing or they saw the action of the plants themselves. Regardless, ancient craftsmen learned from experience, and, as they had learned to use fire, water, and wind energy, they also discovered plant or animal juices that melted stones, healed, or killed. They observed that strength, realized its potential, and put it to good use.

Yet the real mystery is not how that knowledge was acquired, nor who transmitted it to whom, but how it traveled between such distant continents. Because, if it is impossible to believe in a coincidence like that shown by myths, it is equally impossible to understand its path unless we rethink the past on very different terms. But this is another story to be investigated elsewhere.

Quote:... it is impossible to believe in a coincidence like that shown by myths, it is equally impossible to understand its path unless we rethink the past on very different terms. But this is another story to be investigated elsewhere.