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Full Version: London Bombing Claimed By Al Qaida group
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mv Wrote:Chechens are not directly relevant to this attack (albeit I understand the sense of justice fulfilled expressed in the posts above), but Livingstone, Halloway, and a collection of radical imams are.

Imagine thousands of chechens in Britain, who were gangsters during perestroyka, fighted under Dudayev and Basayev... What are they doing now? Are they working? It's impossible. For sure they are racketeers, killers, sell weapon and explosive... Sooner or later they must participate in terrorism. They aren't leaders, but they participate... It's the only job suitable for chechens.
I don't think the number is thousands; dozens would be more plausible.

Yeah, sure, they are most likely connected to some criminal operations, and probably are available for hire for anything, but the numbers are probably too small to have much of an effect.

Incidentally, there were some reports about a Chechen connection to Madrid, which -- to the best of my knowledge -- led nowhere.
mv Wrote:I don't think the number is thousands; dozens would be more plausible.
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It's data from russian TV - about 20 000 including members of family. In fact it's economical immigration mostly.
bh Wrote:
mv Wrote:I don't think the number is thousands; dozens would be more plausible.
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It's data from russian TV - about 20 000 including members of family. In fact it's economical immigration mostly.

If true, Brits are nuts. But then there were reports of tens of thousands of Somali's in the US (I think they are settling Maine).
Gunnen4u Wrote:I doubt that France will ever be attacked. They seem to go after nations whom are closely allied with us.

Spain has been left alone since Madrid, and France/Germany have alway opposed any Iraq conflict, so its likely they will be left alone as well.
No. Spain has not been left alone since Madrid.
eaglestrikes Wrote:No. Spain has not been left alone since Madrid.

Perhaps I missed something then?
Back in the bad ol days of the Red Brigade, and the PLO as well as the Red Faction, and the Rosa Brigada. (Red Brigade) and other terrorist organizations what the intell boys found out was the the enemy of my enemy is my enemy also. Translation. All those factions came together to include Bader-Meinhoff and the result was chaos in a great many places. Italy, Germany, Japan, Palestine and elsewhere.
Guess what? It is happening again. The IRA is already implicated, and the organization claiming credit is a 'franchise' or splinter group not directly aligned to OBL. The PLO is tied in and the training it appears was done through Afghanistan, and Iraq using both as training grounds. Seems the one ol boy on the bus may have accidentally discharged his. Wasn't ready to meet Allah and the Virgins, but hey things happen and he is gone, along with 12 Brits.

gunnen4u.
This is ETA.
Crime/Incidents
Guardia Civil arrest three more ETA terrorist suspects
By: ThinkSpain

Three suspected ETA terrorist suspects were arrested during the early hours of yesterday morning by Guardia Civil officers in the Basque country and Navarra after a High Court order. Eder Aritz Lizaso was finally arrested at his family home in Zizur, after officers initially raided a property rented in his name in Estella. Jorge Diez Ulzurrun was arrested on a street in Pamplona old town after they failed to find him at his home address. The third man, Mikel Ciaurriz Marco, who was arrested in Forua (Vizcaya), is believed to be closely linked with Javier Perez Aldunate, who was arrested in Basauri on the 11th February, and is in jail awaiting trial for an alleged planned sniper attack on King Juan Carlos in Palma de Mallorca last year.

Wednesday, March 16, 2005.
This too or Tambien as they say.

Thursday, February 10, 2005
Basque terrorist group ETA in Madrid
Police investigating the car bomb which exploded in Madrid yesterday suspect that two members of the terrorist group ETA may be living permanently in Madrid. They base their hypothesis on the fact that the telephone used by the terrorists to ring the Basque newspaper Gara and give their usual bomb warning yesterday was bought in Madrid last November, just before ETA put small bombs in five petrol stations surrounding the Spanish capital city.

Yesterday's bomb was bigger than the bombs planted by ETA recently, and 36 people were slightly injured. The terrorists used the same kind of explosives as the one they used in the car bomb which exploded in Getxo three weeks ago.

Yesterday's incident was a mediatic victory for ETA. The bomb exploded just hours before the King Juan Carlos and Mexican president Fox were due to arrive for the opening of the yearly contemporary art exhibition ARCO in a nearby building. And the news story received instant attention from the worldwide media. However the Spanish Interior Minister, José Antonio Alonso claimed that recent arrests of ETA members have seriously weakened the structure of the terrorist group and that police operations over the next few days would continue to do so.

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They are also tied to Al and the boys who are tied to the PLO, and Hamas, and they are tied to the Wahabist in London in the Various Mosques, who are tied to the Taliban and the list goes on, and on.
Go here and start clicking. Get's interesting. This list is slighly out of date.
http://members.aol.com/TeacherNet/Terrorism.html
and wasn't there a few unexploded bombs found shortly after the pullout in Spain?
ghoullio Wrote:and wasn't there a few unexploded bombs found shortly after the pullout in Spain?

You are correct. Apparently the bombs were not sophinticated, but done by nonexperts. This means that the terrorists themselves are not professionals. Easier to catch their mistakes and take advantage of them.
i know they are still counting the bodies, but when i heard the latest count (49), i thought there should have been more. it was kind of a weak attack. the bombs in Spain were much more effective.

were the Terrorists counting on higher traffic than what was actually there? or was this the effect they desired to have?
ghoullio Wrote:i know they are still counting the bodies, but when i heard the latest count (49), i thought there should have been more. it was kind of a weak attack. the bombs in Spain were much more effective.

were the Terrorists counting on higher traffic than what was actually there? or was this the effect they desired to have?

probably inexperience. The Spanish bombers were unable to really pass on their experience because they are either dead or in prison.

Also note that one of the subway trains is still stuck in the tunnel it was going through at the time. The opening was only 14 feet wide, so expect there to be a heavier death count here.

I wouds suspect somewhere arount 75-80 when all is done. Still smaller than spain. And it is worth noting that the Spanish trains were above ground, making it easier to get on and off the train without being caught. Subways allow for certain stealth, but also restrict ease of movemeht.
John L Wrote:The Spanish bombers were unable to really pass on their experience because they are either dead or in prison.

I don't share your optimism.
1. Under russian TV suspected in Spain events were released from custody.
2. Shahids were consumables, they hadn't experience as a sapper. Sapper could be the only (in Spain) and he is still alive for sure. But it does not mean they have 1-2 sappers only. They are enough experienced after Iraq, Chechnia etc...
3. In London terrorists used bombs without additional damaging elements, totally about 16kg in trinitrotoluol equivalent. In Spain situation was quite different.
Rocky, you'd better post foto of Vanessa Redgrave defending great "freedom-fighter" Zakayev. It would be better for understanding of cause-and -effect relations.
But you are right, they are innocent people, they are innocent useful idiots.
The picture of Rocky examining meat carcasses in the aftermath of London bombings...

Not sure what you are trying to say...
OK, it appears that these bombs were SB's, and home-grown (Leeds).

Thus,

1. not AQ.

2. this time Debka scored: they were saying "SB's" from the beginning.
I fully expected the perps. (the canon-fodder) to be Brits, however there are indications that the 'mastermind' may not be or has 'international connections' with Islamist movements. Whether these connections prove to be 'al-Qaeda' or not is probably a question of the use of labels.

I can say two things in favour of the perps

1) They were acting out of princple, insane though the principle may seem.

2) If they were suicide bombers, they were not cowards. Cowards would plant the bombs on the trains and skid-addle.

In the UK politicians and moderate muslims and all sorts of others are 'standing together' to condemn these actions all very good. Where I differ with these people is when they say - 'these extremists are misrepresenting Islam - Islam is a religion of peace.' The briefest reading of the Koran will show that it promotes both peace and violence - so it can be used to justify either.

I can't help but notice the parallels between Islam and democracy each proposes some ideal world of peace and bounty as long as you follow the rules. But if you don't want to follow the rules - a little bit of violence will
help things along. At the moment the West is way out in front on that score.
One thing to keep uppermost in mind is the ability of both the U.S. and Great Britain to uncover the nascent terrorist cells and prevent them from acting. The U.S. has documented hundreds of spoiled terrorist acts already, and Great Britain, France, Spain, The Netherlands, Israel, and other nations have done so as well.

The terror cells have an advantage in that they can hide in the shadows and remain undetected until they do anything stupid which results in their capture. One of the four alleged London terrorist bombers was a teacher of disadvantaged, and all four had forged positive community relationships. Richard Marcinko. the Rogue Warrior, who authors Spec Ops books about fighting terrorists and other enemies of the state, has often remarked on Terrorists being unable to refrain from bragging about themselves, and documenting everything they do. The worst failure of their secrecy is usually from the terrorists, themselves.

What I find interesting is that there were only four of them. This seems to me to be more of an ad-hoc terrorist event than a grandiose scripted one from on-high. I look at this as a boot-strapped emergency action - possibly caused by being alerted to being uncovered. Perhaps MI-5 was closing in on them and they acted before they could be apprehended. One thing for sure - the more effective the security forces are, the less we know about what they are doing. Perhaps the terrorists' clandestine contacts got picked up and they lost any means to communicate with other terrorists, so they went off on their own - imitating the Spanish bombings as best they could.

Of course, an ad-hoc action can be claimed by al Qaeda as their own, even if it wasn't - but far more likely is that they, or somebody else, sent prearranged signals provided for them... Possibly a one-way message.

A possibility I find enormously rewarding is that they may have been part of a larger cell that turned and decided not to kill themselves or innocents, and the few involves in this are all that were left of a much larger, originally more effective cell.
Quote:A possibility I find enormously rewarding is that they may have been...
I would like to be able to find something like that as well. Are you willing to share what you are smoking? :lol: :lol:
Sorry to disappoint, but I'm breathing nothing but fresh country air... just don't step in it!
From ArabNews:

Quote:LONDON, 15 July 2005 — British police have warned that a second terrorist attack on London is even more likely, following the uncovering of a massive explosives factory in a safe house in Leeds. Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair gave the somber warning to Londoners yesterday and stressed that “there are lots more secret Al-Qaeda terrorist cells operating within the UK.”
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