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From ITAR-TASS:

Quote: LVOV, May 13 (Itar-Tass) - Ukraine, Poland and Lithuania have decided to create a Joint Parliamentary Assembly.

The speakers of the Ukrainian Supreme Rada, Lithuanian Seimas and Polish Sejm – Vladimir Litvin, Arturas Paulauskas and Wlodzimierz Cimoszewicz – signed an appropriate joint statement in the west-Ukrainian city of Lutsk on Friday.

Ukraine, Poland and Lithuania “are going to increase their contribution to the broadening of the regional cooperation,” the document says. The countries “understand the necessity of working jointly on the implementation of Ukraine’s plans for European and Euro-Atlantic integration.”

A statute of the assembly will determine the composition, framework of reference and principles of activity of the organisation. All the necessary documents will be ready by the time a constituent session of the assembly is held in Kiev this year.

This looks somewhat familiar. A few hundred years ago there was a state which consisted of these three+Byelorussia; and that state -- The Grand Duchy of Lithuania (later, Rzech Pospolita) competed with Moskovia and in essense acted as a shield protecting Western Europe from the east.

Brief history of GDL
Wiki entry

The proposal seems to make perfect geopolitical sense: no single Eastern European state has the mass to resist Russia on its own; but such a loose confederation may be able to both deal with Russia and, at the same time, be a powerful voting block within the EU.

The missing Byelorussian piece is, of course, lines up as the next government to be subverted.

What is even more interesting is that there is a bigger proposal, coming from Saakashvili and published in WashPost on May 10th, where he is arguing for the inclusion of Moldavia and Romania into a new Eastern-European block; this would be a pretty potent GDL+, if such a thing can hold together... (But the historical GDL was a loose confederation, and still managed to hold together for a few centuries...)

Both things coming just after Bush' visits makes one naturally suspicious of the US role in this...

It might be very interesting to see what exactly did Rice study in Russian History and if GDL featured there in some way...

And I'm really surprised that the Stratfor guys did not (YET) think about the GDL idea...Or,perhaps, I'm seeing something that is not there...

Your thoughts? Plausible?

(PS. For the record: I still think that Bush is insane to get into this mess, but at least the GDL concept shows how his strategy may have a chance of succeeding...)

=====

PPS. I got curious enough to ask Stratfor about this. Lets see if they reply.
You may want to compare the image below against the current map of Europe:

[Image: 765px-Rzeczpospolita.png]
It's not political problem, it's medical. Stratfor analyses political problems only.
1. Poland and Lithuania are in EU.
2. Ukraine is in GUUAM.
3. Unification in GDL is exactly what need being a parts of different unions.
Quote:It's not political problem, it's medical

ROFLMAO..

However:
GUUAM does not any longer exist. Uzbekistan withdrew about two weeks ago. Ukraine intends to join EU, and is being welcomed to. It is not clear what would happen to EU if the constitution fails.

More importantly, both blocks (EU and GUUAM) are loose, allow memberships in other blocks, and there are no immediate reasons why a cross-border assosiation cannot exit. The proposed block actually would be more coherent than either EU or GUUAM.
Quote:GUUAM does not any longer exist.
It exists, last sabbath was month ago without Uzbekistan but under strict supervision of US ambassador in Moldova. In fact they don't need Uzbekistan. Georgia + Ukraine + Moldova = alternative pipe-line route from Kazkhstan and Azerbaijan to EU. Reread posts of Ag. What are you watching on TV? Iraq only?

Quote: Ukraine intends to join EU, and is being welcomed to
If Ukraine will join EU, GDL has no sense.

Quote:both blocks (EU and GUUAM) are loose
EU are loose? It's american dream only, but not only american. S2
When Ukraine tries to join EU it does mean ukrainians want to be closer to polish and lithuanian beggars.
1. EU is loose all right: no coordination of foreign policy, and overlap with other blocks (same NATO).

2. There is no contradiction between GUAM (strike one U) and GDL.

3.
Quote:If Ukraine will join EU, GDL has no sense.

Oh, but it does. EU represents too many countries with different interests. Splits and subblocks within EU are unavoildable, unless they can push through a very rapid centralization. And GDL would be a perfect reflection of divergent interests of the new Eastern Europe and the Old Western Core.

4.
Quote:When Ukraine tries to join EU it does mean ukrainians want to be closer to polish and lithuanian beggars

We are not talking about Ukranians, but the current ruling group. You may want to recheck about the Polish role in Yurchenko's success.
1.
Quote:EU is loose all right
There is common economic space, common currency... It's a lot even now. GDL is mirage even in comparing with CIS..

2.
Quote:You may want to recheck about the Polish role in Yurchenko's success.
I remember about their role, but Lviv's municipality even hadn't allowed access of Poles to their cemetery in Lviv (kladbishche orliat). They told: "Thanks and fu_ck off...". Events in Volyn during WW2 are actively discussed in Ukraine media. "Nikto nie zabyt i nichto niezabyto..." Every ukrainian understand - Poland want Lviv back and Vilnius became Vilno. There is no rational sense in unification of Lithuania, Poland and Ukraine. But there is rational sense in GUUAM - oil route!
Quote:But there is rational sense in GUUAM - oil route!...

You really don't need to form a block to protect an oil route...But if you insist on this logic, GDL is an extended GUUAM which would protect the same route much better.

Quote:Poland want Lviv back and Vilnius became Vilno. There is no rational sense in unification of Lithuania, Poland and Ukraine....

Not an issue at the moment, since EU membership contradicts territorial dreams. And anti-Polish feelings would probably recede quickly once the Poles start investing in Ukraine.

Anyhow, since Stratfor was mentioned, perhaps you would be interested to look at Regnum, here.. GDL is the supplementary concept to this article: destruction of Russia would result in a vacuum, and something must fill it.

(PS. Just in case: I never said that destruction of Russia and/or creation of GDL are things that I would like to happen...; but they are seemingly happening anyway)
Quote:And anti-Polish feelings would probably recede quickly once the Poles start investing in Ukraine.
1. Poland wouldn't invest cause Poland is deep shit. It's sad you can't read polish forums. "Poets in politic and politics in poetry" are still bright.
2. Even if Poland would invest, Ukrainian would hate Poles even stronger. Their feelings towards rich aren't kind.
3. Only idiot or Niemtsov can invest in todays Ukraine.
Quote:It's sad you can't read polish forums.

Well, perhaps you could quote some juicy stuff.

Quote: Ukrainian would hate Poles even stronger. Their feelings towards rich aren't kind.

But this is irrelevant. Ukranians always hated everyone around, and this did not stop GDL, RP, and then Russia and SU from ruling them. All that is required is to install a layer of corrupt elite that will handle the masses.
mv Wrote:Well, perhaps you could quote some juicy stuff.


No problem, the best was here:
http://serwisy.gazeta.pl/metroon/1,0,2622663.html
Month ago it was free, now you must pay. I recommend to read posts of readers.

If you don't want to pay:
http://wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/wiadomosci/1...02429.html

Na pytanie: "Kiedy będzie lepiej" , większość odpowiada konsekwentnie: "Już było". Blisko połowa Polaków spodziewa się pogorszenia poziomu życia w przyszłości. To ma być samopoczucie mieszkańców kraju spektakularnego gospodarczego sukcesu?

http://www.poloniainfo.se/forum/temat.ph...temat=4033

http://info.onet.pl/1,15,11,9838772,2944...forum.html

in english:
http://www.bhhrg.org/mediaDetails.asp?ArticleID=126

Euro-zone1 seasonally-adjusted unemployment2 stood at 8.9% in March 2005, compared to 8.8% in February3, reports Eurostat, the Statistical Office of the European Communities. It was 8.8% in March 2004. The EU254 unemployment rate was 8.9% in March 2005, unchanged compared to February. It was 9.0% in March 2004.

In March 2005, the lowest rates were registered in Ireland (4.3%), Luxembourg (4.5%), Austria (4.6%), the United Kingdom (4.7% in January) and Denmark (4.9% in February). Unemployment rates were highest in Poland (18.1%), Slovakia (15.9%), Greece (10.2% in December 2004) and Spain (10.2%).

In March 2005, the unemployment rate for under-25s was 19.2% in the euro-zone and 19.1% in the EU25. In March 2004 it was 18.2% and 18.9% respectively. The lowest rates for under-25s were observed in Denmark (7.1% in February), Ireland (8.0%) and the Netherlands (9.1% in February) and the highest in Poland (36.4%), Slovakia (27.6%), Greece (26.2% in December 2004) and Italy (24.0% in December 2004).
http://europa.eu.int/rapid/pressReleases...anguage=en


mv Wrote:Ukranians always hated everyone around, and this did not stop GDL, RP, and then Russia and SU from ruling them.
Poles always loved their neighbors and achieved great succeses.
TY!

OFT: The difference between the Poles and the Ukranians is that the former contributed a lot to the humanity...while the latter are about as useful as the Arabs: no art or science noticed. But perhaps I was unduly harsh on the Ukranians and missed the first unqualified success of the Ukranian science: Cloning of Richard Nixon Wink1
mv Wrote:OFT: The difference between the Poles and the Ukranians is that the former contributed a lot to the humanity...while the latter are about as useful as the Arabs: no art or science noticed.

1. When drinking whiskey remember - technology of distillation was invented by Arabs. You'd drink orange juice without Arabs contribution to humanity.
2. Even if Gogol would be the only ukrainian contribution to the humanity it would be enough. I'm not surprised average american don't know about Gogol, cause he hadn't written detective novels. Though average american know about KGB General Gogol in James Bond serial S2 S2 S2 :
[Image: gogol.jpg]
3. BTW, please share with us information about polish contribution in humanity: pierogy, kielbasa...
Well, lets see.

Which language did Gogol actually write in? Not Ukranian, and here goes *the only* Ukranian writer or some (imho, minimal) note. The only other Ukranian nationals one knows of are the characters like Khmelnitzky, Mahno, Petlura, Brezhnev, and the idiot who thought that Dioxin is the same as Botox...

OTOH, it is easy to name a dozen of well-known Polish writers..From Senkewitch to Lem. Polish movie directors are plenty, from -- what was his name? -- that child molester to Holland, and not forget Wajda. Ditto for science, beginning with Copernicus. And last, but the best, what would we do without Polish Jokes Wink1
1. Even if Gogol would use Swahili or English language like Nabokov, he was Ukrainian. We are talking about ukrainian contribution in world culture.
2. If Brezhnev was Ukrainian, great kievans - Bulgakov, Sikorski and ... S2 Milla Yovovich are ukrainians as well.
3.
Quote:From Senkewitch to Lem.
So Senkewitch and Lem - 2 writers, not so much.
4.
Quote:...that child molester to Holland
Roma is not only world known child molester? :o Is cinema his hoby?
No wonder Dutches are leaving the country...S4
5.
Quote:what would we do without Polish Jokes
You'd listen armenian radio...
Quote:Even if Gogol would use Swahili or English language like Nabokov, he was Ukrainian.

Try Googling.

"Russian writer Gogol" : 209 matches
"Nonsense writer Gogol": 59 matches
"Ukranian writer Gogol": 4 matches
Just in case: "Armenian writer Gogol": 0 matches

Google does not lie.

Additionally, while Nabokov knew Russian, there is no evidence that Gogol knew Ukranian.

Some more Google statistics:

Samoa writer: 19
Swahili writer: 39
Ukranian writer: 79
Lithuanian writer: 373
Uzbek writer: 417
Navajo writer: 460
Latvian writer: 494
Rwandan writer: 532
Kurdish writer: 1,160
Armenian writer: 1,420
Estonian writer: 1650
Turkish writer: 6,200
Nigerian writer: 9,400
Czech writer: 12,900
Polish writer: 16,100
Russian writer: 96,500
English writer: 132,000
American writer: 562,000

Satisfied? <grin> Ukraine is the ultimate non-contributing nation, well behind Rwandans. Not ready for independence, give it back to the Poles, until they learn the difference between injecting Botox and injecting Dioxin.

I suggest we use the above chart in determining our sympathies :idea:

Quote:You'd listen (to) armenian radio...
ROFLMAO.
No wonder, he is not "Ukranian writer Gogol", but " ukrainian writer Gogol" - 4460 matches. :lol:
bh Wrote:No wonder, he is not "Ukranian writer Gogol", but " ukrainian writer Gogol" - 4460 matches. :lol:

Good try, but no cake:

Search for
Ukrainian writer Gogol : 6,770
Ukranian writer Gogol : 857
Russian writer Gogol : 51,900
My numbers above came from a search in quotes:
"Ukranian writer Gogol" : 4
"Ukrainian writer Gogol" : 20
"Russian writer Gogol" : 210

Still, 1:10 ratio. S2

Applying this alternative spelling to the country list above will improve Ukra(i)nian standing, but still leave them way behind cililized Poles and Czechs.

Furthermore, designating a country that cannot settle on spelling its name was clearly a rush idea... Give them back to the Poles... Wink1
Heh, according to your "googles" logic Nabokov is not russian, but american writer. S2
bh Wrote:Heh, according to your "googles" logic Nabokov is not russian, but american writer. S2

Well, he was. All his more known novels were written in English. Furthermore, the softporn stuff he wrote -- and which made him famous -- simply does not fit into russian literature anyway.

But the Russian claim on Nabokov makes some sense: the ratio is 1:3, not the gogolitical 1:10. Wink1
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