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Full Version: Is the Hamas "radical islamic"?
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When I watch the Gaza news of American channels, they always stress "Israel has the right to defend itself". It's a lie - Israel is the agressor. Some wondered in a different thread here why the Hisbollah didn't attack yet from the North, why would they? As Hamas, Hisbollah is a defence organisation against Zionist terror, and as long as Lebanon is not attacked by Israel, they don't hit back.
German news always use the Phrase "the radical islamic Hamas". It's also a lie designed to vilify Hamas. I mean, you've seen what right-wing conservative Muslims in Pakistan, Afghanistan, or Iran look like, kind of malignant Santa Clauses in rags, each of them home to 10,000 bedbugs. Thinking about it, right-wing religious Christians and Jews look quite the same, and so do Hindu and Sikh crackpots. Spiritual satisfaction might lead to negligence of clothing and personal hygiene, civilization and religion are as we know antipodes.
Compare them to the Hamas leaders, who are mostly types in suits, with a proper hair cut, and trimmed beards. They did not and do not intend to introduce sharia or whatever in Gaza, where the Palestinians actually enjoy a rather Westernized society. Few women running around in Hijabs, girls and boys share the same classes at the schools, girls the majority at their university.
Why don't you grab your old "made in DDR" AK47, and head to Gaza, so you can support those oppressed, peace-loving, Pals, ok?
The quality of your rebuttals has somewhat lessened. It's though of course in the face of facts.
quadrat Wrote:The quality of your rebuttals has somewhat lessened. It's though of course in the face of facts.

it's because low quality does not deserve better. Certainly you are capable of rising above the gutter, Fool!
Q is simply reaching out to the Hamas leadership that he admires and adores.

He sorely wants to be accepted by like minded people.

You are right, John L - Q should go there. He won't need to bring anything (except maybe, money) and they'll fix him up with whatever weapon d'jour is appropriate.

Maybe they have a "vest" in Q's size?
There is no argument that can say launching rockets indiscriminately into civilian Israel is defensive.
quadrat Wrote:The quality of your rebuttals has somewhat lessened. It's though of course in the face of facts.

you are once again being disingenuous, Q-ball. you don't care at all for facts! if you did, you would know that Hamas has killed more Palestinians than Israel has this year before the recent arse-wiping Israel has had to do for Hamas. Hamas had a compund where they interrogated and tortured dissidents, Fatah members, and anyone accused of working with Israel.

how can a peaceful organization wholly concerned with the freedom of its people conduct such nightmarish operations? forgetting, of course, the FACT that Israel left Gaza ( AS PROMISED!) and Hamas continued to lob rockets into Israeli territory.

S5

have a nice day, Q.
I thought John's question was valid.
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Galatians 5:22-23

Now look what scum you are. :lol:
Quote:The quality of your rebuttals has somewhat lessened. It's though of course in the face of facts.

Well not exactly. There is no rebuttle for someone who is going refuse reality.

Quote:When I watch the Gaza news of American channels, they always stress "Israel has the right to defend itself". It's a lie - Israel is the agressor.

Nope. Even Al Jazeera describes Hamas' rocket launching as aggression and recognizes that they must stop if there is going to be peace. they even recognize Israel's rigth to defend itself against said attacks. If you look accross the entire spectrum or respected pundits, analysts and news outlests overwelmingly the conclusion is that yes, indeed Israel has a right to defend itself against rocket attacks.

So...there's really no response or rebuttle to someone who'll just sit there and call 2+2 eleven. Anyone can sit there and cry, "Nah-uh" anytime reality is presented.



Ahk
Well, you probably also argue Hamas and the Palestinians have to "make compromises", another standard formula for example used by the media and dumb president of the Americans. Which compromises? For your kind perusal, here's the map of the partition of the chosen land in 1947,

[Image: UN_Partition_Plan_Palestine.png]

of 2009

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Is-wb-gs-gh_v3.png

and here of 2009, showing what large areas of the remaining Palestinian land are actually occupied by Jews.

[Image: 250px-West_Bank_%26_Gaza_Map_2007_%28Settlements%29.jpg]

Should the Palestinians give up more of their property, live in smaller ghettos at the whim of the Jews? Are you not ashamed to adopt and spread the Zionist propaganda?

And who says that Palestinians must not have weapons anyway? That's a nation with the same rights as the aggressor Israel.
quad Wrote:Well, you probably also argue Hamas and the Palestinians have to "make compromises", another standard formula for example used by the media and dumb president of the Americans.

Nice avoidance. You say "American media lies about Hamas rocketing - calling it agression". I respond witht he fact that just about everyone including al Jezeera calls it aggression....bacause it is. You have nothing to say about "American propaganda media" now. Now it's time to side-step into another talking point you don't truely intend to follow up on.

Now you need to tell me what "I would probably argue"....lol...classic arguing what you wish I said instead of dealing with what I did say. ...and you're still going to end up a train wreak with this.


So to answer your segway-to-avoid: Why are you showing me a map from "yesterday"?

Why not show me the map of before and after Roman expulsion and attempted genocide of the Jews? Palestinians had about as much area as they have now during Roman rule. What did the Jews do? Well they tried rebelling against their "evil colonial occupiers" and were cast to the Four Corners. In fact the entire region has been cursed ever since that rebellion.

THIS is what the region looked like under Roman rule in the 1st century BC/1 century CE:

[Image: firstcenturypalestinejd2.gif]

Look's about the same. Palestinians have been under one thumb or anothers ever since. The creation of the Israeli state was to coincide with basically the first full fledged Palestinians state but the Arabs just couldnt live with that.


Ahk
Quadrad

Hamas and Hezbullah are Islamist.
What are you talking about?

They are not fighting for a land, the are fighting for Islam.
Maybe it's less obvious and less visible for Hamas, but Hamas describes himself as an islamist group.
And women do wear the hijab in Gaza.

Without Islamists and islamist ideologies, Palestinians and jews would live in peace.
Fredledingue Wrote:Quadrad

Hamas and Hezbullah are Islamist.
What are you talking about?

They are not fighting for a land, the are fighting for Islam.
Maybe it's less obvious and less visible for Hamas, but Hamas describes himself as an islamist group.
And women do wear the hijab in Gaza.

Without Islamists and islamist ideologies, Palestinians and jews would live in peace.

They are Islamist, but they are most definitely fighting for land. And to believe that there would be peace with Israel if it wasn't for Islam is completely wrong. Groups like Hamas and Hezbollah wouldn't be able to be so well-organzed, funded, and determined unless they were fighting for real political goals. True religious terrorists are usually crazy, ineffective loners. Furthermore, deeply fundamentalist states like Saudi Arabia actually oppose Hamas! Simply because they have different political goals. You can't take religion at face-value.
Fredledingue Wrote:Quadrad

Hamas and Hezbullah are Islamist.
What are you talking about?

They are not fighting for a land, the are fighting for Islam.
Maybe it's less obvious and less visible for Hamas, but Hamas describes himself as an islamist group.
And women do wear the hijab in Gaza.

Without Islamists and islamist ideologies, Palestinians and jews would live in peace.
Women in Gaza are not forced to wear Hijab, if they do, they do it for their own reasons. Conservative Muslims, you call them "Islamists," always insist that people run their lives in literal accordance with the Quran. That's not the case in Gaza, that's not the case in the West Bank. It's the case in the countries of your beloved allies, SA, the Emirates, Pakistan to name a few, and even the case in countries were you yourself run the show, Afghanistan and Iraq. So, why call Hamas islamic for any real, not propaganda reason? There is some Al Queda in Gaza, and they oppose Hamas.

http://sweetness-light.com/archive/hamas...h-for-some

Ahkenaten,
that's quite a good map. Let's not forget the Romans renamed the province Syria after they changed its demographics. Wouldn't you say ancient Judea was a lot smaller than today's Israel, and the promised people also claimed Samaria, Idumea, and to the South I guess a part of Egypt?
quadrat Wrote:So, why call Hamas islamic for any real, not propaganda reason?

oh, i don't know. maybe because they just instated Sharia Law and legalized CRUSIFICTXON?!?
ghoullio Wrote:
quadrat Wrote:So, why call Hamas islamic for any real, not propaganda reason?

oh, i don't know. maybe because they just instated Sharia Law and legalized CRUSIFICTXON?!?

They are really nice folks, who are just misunderstood. Didn't you know that?
eh, its their cross to bear...
Anonymous24,
All the Islamist are fighting for land, for Holly Land of Islam.
Hamas wants the destruction of Israel based on religous ground. They are not fighting for "rights". Otherwise they would accept the existance of Israel and Israeli rules, just demanding more rights (and economic aid) to the Palestinians.
Actually, I don't think they are fighting for anything. It is just status quo. The people are victims of a horrendous educational agenda which fills them with disinformation and marching orders. They could be told they fight for land, for food, for the right to independence - but the truth is they just carry on with the program, no matter what it is.
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