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Full Version: Is Israel Sending A Clear Message to Everyone?!
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I wonder what the Israeli are actually up to by this well known exercise? Are they telling the US to get with the program, or they will do it for us? Are they trying to jolt the Iranians? Will they actually do it?

Is this one of the reasons why oil is inflated?
John L Wrote:I wonder what the Israeli are actually up to by this well known exercise? Are they telling the US to get with the program, or they will do it for us? Are they trying to jolt the Iranians? Will they actually do it?

Is this one of the reasons why oil is inflated?
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Oil is inflated because the demand is greater than production. Production is hampered by rebel activities in Nigeria and other places. But Iraqi oil is flowing steady and Iraq holds a large share of available reserves.

When Israel attacked Iraq in 1981, US protested as Saddam was considered an US ally. If Israel will attack Iran now US will not deliver any protests. But Iran is not defenceless agains Israeli air strikes. And they may retaliate by sending som Scud or other missiles to Israel.

Anyway, we will soon see what will happen.

/track_snake
I'm sorry,but Israel doesn't have the ability to so much serious to Iran. F-15s and 16s have a long way to go to Tehran and it's not like they have 1 main site to destroy. I don't buy this Israeli threat as serious at all.

Only the USA and Russia have the capability to travel great distances and destroy large quantities of stuff,unless India or China has developed a strategic capability lately.

If this were Syria,maybe,but not Tehran. It's too far,they have to much space and capabilities to blast it like the Tuwaitha raid.
It is not so much the distance, but the number of sites. It is quite likely that the Israelis can destroy any particular Iranian site, but the Iranian program is spread over dozens of sites with massive duplication, taking them all out may be impossible.

The purpose of the exercise is nearly certainly psychological, there seems to be a lot of it going on lately. Disclosures of Hizbollah activities in Venezuela and now Canada are likely to be a part of the same campaign.
John L Wrote:I wonder what the Israeli are actually up to by this well known exercise? Are they telling the US to get with the program, or they will do it for us? Are they trying to jolt the Iranians? Will they actually do it?

Is this one of the reasons why oil is inflated?
It's hardly surprising. Everyone knows what Israel is/has been up to. The West needs to give up its hypocrisy and deal with Israel with an iron fist. Instead of imposing sanctions on Israel, the West (especially the US) is pouring in more and more dollars. Hypocrisy at its best. :lol:
Two things to think about before you pass judgement:

1.) No one understands the ins and outs of the region like the israelis.
2.) No one has a better intelligence agency than the israelis.

So if they are training for a certain type of mission there is probably good reason. If it weren't for the israelis there would already be nukes in the madman ruled middle east.
Even if the Israelis are only able to take out half of the Iranian facilities, think of the enormous cleanup problems that will give the Iranians. There is a downside to having many widespread sites.

I still think that striking such a distant target will be a great technical challenge to the Israelis, especially if they have hopes of their fighter-bombers being able to make a round trip and return home.

If push comes to shove, and Israel wants to overfly Iraq, what is the USA going to do? Send up our fighters to engage their fighters? More likely the USA will just lodge a diplomatic protest.
Israeli will not just use jets. There are many pro-Israel Iranians in Iran. Before 1979, Isreal was a stanch ally of Iran, and vice versa. Many people have not forgotten their ties with these Jews.

My best guess it that IF there is a strike against the Iranian nuclear facilities, there are insiders, who will help Israel accomplish it's mission of crippling Iran. The problem is that these insiders will be exposed.

I have no doubt that after this regime is gone, Iran will return as a friend of Israel again. There is just too much in it's favour. You may think I am nuts, but I'm not.

Once the regime is gone, Israel will have no further protests about Iran having the bomb. In fact they probably will encourage them to have it.
John,

Making a big public display like this doesn't make sense if you're going to do that. Israel isn't about to fly into Iran.

If they were smart they'd go about assasinating Iranian scientists,that ought not be that difficult and if the mossad is all that(which I contend it isn't anymore) they should know most of them.
John L Wrote:Israeli will not just use jets. There are many pro-Israel Iranians in Iran. Before 1979, Isreal was a stanch ally of Iran, and vice versa. Many people have not forgotten their ties with these Jews.

My best guess it that IF there is a strike against the Iranian nuclear facilities, there are insiders, who will help Israel accomplish it's mission of crippling Iran. The problem is that these insiders will be exposed.

I have no doubt that after this regime is gone, Iran will return as a friend of Israel again. There is just too much in it's favour. You may think I am nuts, but I'm not.

Once the regime is gone, Israel will have no further protests about Iran having the bomb. In fact they probably will encourage them to have it.
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You are right about the number of Jews living in Iraq and that they might be pro-Israel in this case. Or against Israel because they don't want to provoke the Iranian government and put their rights at risk.

You are also right about that Israel and the Shah were on good terms before 1979 but those times are unfortunately gone.

So I think jets is the only way if Israel want to give Iran a blow and strike against their nuclear facilities.

/track_snake
Jews and Muslims are both semitic. Their religions, customs, languages everything is intertwined. Where they are different, they often mirror each other. And the Muslim world is divided many different ways religiously ethnically etc. The jews as well. The country borderes are arbitrarily drawn by westerners. They understand this and appreciate it in a way that escapes the rest of the world.

After getting to know some people from this region I am convinced we westerners know very little of this area and understand even less. Do not under estimate the Israelis. Do not demonize them either. Both would undermine truly understanding them.
Israel 'will attack Iran' before new US president sworn in, John Bolton predicts This is a bit Machievellian.

My questions.
Does Israel have the capacity to strike multiple targets at once or within a short time?
Does Iran have the ability to strike Israel (with missiles, e.g.) in a substantial way?

If Iran has such a capability, then the Israelis must be able to either absorb the blows, or be able to strike at, not only the nuclear targets, but the targets which can retaliate. Perhaps the latter would be taken out first. However, Russia has given Iran some modern anti aircraft defenses. If these are not ineffective, they must be taken out first. So, the picture looks a bit muddy to me. Certainly the US could deal with all of the above problems, but it is not clear that the Israelis can. Does that imply US complicity?
Do you remember the AAMCO commercial in the 70s? The one that goes "You can pay me now, or you can pay me later"? Wink1
The Israelis have three modern Dolphin-class submarines armed with Harpoon cruise missiles that can accurately attack numerous nuclear targets. Israeli towns are small and strategically spaced far enough apart to make it difficult for a nuclear weapon to cause a fatal blow. Iran has many huge cities; if two or more were to be attacked by a nuclear armed cruise missile the country would probably be easily overthrown from within.
TheMan Wrote:Jews and Muslims are both semitic. Their religions, customs, languages everything is intertwined. Where they are different, they often mirror each other. And the Muslim world is divided many different ways religiously ethnically etc. The jews as well. The country borderes are arbitrarily drawn by westerners. They understand this and appreciate it in a way that escapes the rest of the world.

After getting to know some people from this region I am convinced we westerners know very little of this area and understand even less. Do not under estimate the Israelis. Do not demonize them either. Both would undermine truly understanding them.
Quite true, Jews and Muslims are so similar that we need to do our best to keep both of them away. Is it not amazing that particularly Jewish and Muslim conservatives need to mob each other, though they share the essantially same values? Say Likud and Hamas, or Hizbollah for that matter, all of them political twins, just don't get along with each other. The Jewish left and the Muslim left don't have those troubles.
Same with the USA and Iran, the conservatives of the latter already having introduced a strict religious society and legislation the conservatives of America still covet and are working for in their own country. Besides, it says twenty or so times on Persia's flag

[Image: iran_flag250w.png]

"Allah is Great". Don't you think you might want to add to your hallowed flag

[Image: usaflag250w.png]

"Jesus is the legitimate Son of God"? There's space in the white strips.
quadrat Wrote:"Jesus is the legitimate Son of God"? There's space in the white strips.

Unfortunately, we'd have to write it in a number of different languages to appease the diverse groups here. There simply are not enough white spaces.
Debka wrote that Israel was not preparing a test run to bomb Iran. If they choose to do so, it will be with missiles.
WmLambert Wrote:Debka wrote that Israel was not preparing a test run to bomb Iran. If they choose to do so, it will be with missiles.
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And Iran will retaliate with missiles.

No good solution for Israel since Iran has missiles that can strike any city in Israel.

I doubt that Israel dares to strike first.

/track_snake