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Just as after the failed first century Jewish uprising against Rome, Tibetans are becoming a minority in their homeland thanks to Beijing's strategy of drastically and irreversibly altering Tibet's population by flooding the territory with Han Chinese, China's dominant ethnic group.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?c...2FShowFull
That's a common strategy with countries wishing to slowly alter the attitudes of a victim of their conquests. Just look at the populations of Ukraine, and Balkan states. Russians were moved there in large numbers and now make up a sizable minority, which greatly influences their policies. There are ohters on the current list, but that comes to mind quickly.
Only Jews would compare the situation of the Tibetans with their own, they do live in a warped reality. It's actually similar to the bloody supression of the Palestinians in their own country, 89% of which is occupied by Jews. Unlike in Tibet which at least enjoys stuff unknown to it 60 years ago such as public education, healthcare and stone buildings, the Jews brought nothing but violence.
quadrat Wrote:Only Jews would compare the situation of the Tibetans with their own, they do live in a warped reality. It's actually similar to the bloody supression of the Palestinians in their own country, 89% of which is occupied by Jews. Unlike in Tibet which at least enjoys stuff unknown to it 60 years ago such as public education, healthcare and stone buildings, the Jews brought nothing but violence.
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The question of Tibet is complicated. It is not so easy as to give the Tibetans sovereignity since many Chinese moved into Tibet since 1950, and many Tibetans moved out of Tibet into other Chinese nearby provinces.

It has been said that those demonstrations now are more or less organized by right-wing elements (source: Hugo Chavez).

/track_snake
quadrat Wrote:Only Jews would compare the situation of the Tibetans with their own, they do live in a warped reality. It's actually similar to the bloody supression of the Palestinians in their own country, 89% of which is occupied by Jews. Unlike in Tibet which at least enjoys stuff unknown to it 60 years ago such as public education, healthcare and stone buildings, the Jews brought nothing but violence.

Only Jews? Only Jooooos? Are you saying that there are far more of those miserable people out there than is currently believed?
Mass immigration is a powerful weapon of war.

It's how we took most of this country from Native Americans. How we took Texas from Mexico. It's even how we took Europe from the Neanderthals.

It's why we need to control our immigration from Mexico and Israel can't allow right of return for Palistinians. And it's what will ultimately doom Europe to Sharia.
The Jews used the same strategy against Palestinians(albeit it failed)
In the case of Israel, the Palestinians were never legally inhabitants of the region they now claim. What is more important, is that in 1967, when the massed armies of Israel's neighbors declared war on Israel, the Israeli army smoked them, before the Arab forces could get in gear. The Arab bullies sued for peace, rather than lose their capitals, and voluntarily gave up any right for then and from the remotest past to any claims to the territories. Israel nurtured the desert and brought life back to it before their citizens moved into formally useless wastelands. Also, don't forget that most of the non-Jews in Israel and the surrounding territories voluntarily moved out and into Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, and other Islamic states to side with the Third Reich, looking to claim better lands than they abandoned after the defeat of the Allies.
Russia under Stalin used it with most the non Russki Soviet Republics as well and the results are still evident today. If you have more kids,you can manage to spread your domain that way.

The example of the Jews in modern Israel is appropriate ,they just forgot to tell the Jewish girls to have kids. A problem with all western peoples lately.

Europe may be doomed literally already due to demographics and the USA likely is so far as continuing as a European based entity,the hope is the Mexicans will become Americans and it won't matter. Otherwise,the USA will become an adjunct of Mexico with all that means.
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In the case of Israel, the Palestinians were never legally inhabitants of the region they now claim. What is more important, is that in 1967, when the massed armies of Israel's neighbors declared war on Israel, the Israeli army smoked them, before the Arab forces could get in gear. The Arab bullies sued for peace, rather than lose their capitals, and voluntarily gave up any right for then and from the remotest past to any claims to the territories. Israel nurtured the desert and brought life back to it before their citizens moved into formally useless wastelands. Also, don't forget that most of the non-Jews in Israel and the surrounding territories voluntarily moved out and into Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, and other Islamic states to side with the Third Reich, looking to claim better lands than they abandoned after the defeat of the Allies.

They weren't 'legal" inhabitants? You're not being serious, are you? They weren't "legal" because the British, who ruled Palestine because of military force alone and not any kind of moral authority, arbitrarily awarded Palestine to the Jews in 1912.

The truth is that, in 1948, most of the people living in what is now Israel were Arab. The Jews lived in a small enclave near Tel Aviv. You can't blame the Arabs for leaving, either - would *you* want to live in a country ruled by a different religious-ethnic group than yourself, who had totally different values? And a great number of Arabs were in fact driven out - Yitzhak Rabin admits it in his autobiography.
The last Ottoman census,I THINK in 1915 showed the Arab-Jewish population close to 50-50. The numbers were putrid,less than 500 hundred thousand humans in all of Palestine in 1915,it was nothing but desert. No,the Arabs were no more illegal then than Jews or anyone else was.

That's nonsense. The Jews declared independence in 1947,offered at the UN 1/2 of Palestine to the Arabs,the Arabs attacked them and that's that.

The Jews were a lot more benevolent than any other group forming a nation I ever heard of,except possibly us because while we whipped the Indians,we did cede significantly huge lands to them and if they choose,they can live as an American elsewhere,pretty liberal,IMO.
Quote:population close to 50-50.

...and the 50% Jewish population were all concentrated around Tel Aviv and small areas near the coast. Most of the territory in Palestine was effectively under Arab contro.
I cannot say where most lived,I would have assumed Jerusalem as both groups have religious icons there and except for Tel Aviv,what other city exists in Israel in 1915? However,there is Jaffa as well. Lots of the Arabs were bedouins.

After 1945,Jews flooded into Palestine and the British tried desperately to stop the immigration,but could not. After the holocaust,it was inevitable Palestine would become Israel again,if you and I were Jews,we wouldn't rely on Gentiles as hosts ever again after that honestly.
The question of "legality" of people living in an area is ludicrous, historically. This question is a modern artifact.

When the Jews returned to the Palestine area, it was already fully "occupied" and had to be ethnically cleansed, according to the bible. So who is really the "legitimate" ethnic group that should inherit the Levant or Palestine?
Sorry to rain on anyone's parade, but Israel has a far greater right to exist than almost any nation on Earth. As noted in the article by Michael Medved: They achieved independence by "the patient settlement of largely desolate and under-populated land, the building of a new civilization virtually from scratch, and a long, bloody fight against determined, sometimes implacable opposition."

Micheal Medved Wrote:it's not true in any sense that the modern Jewish State ever supplanted or destroyed an existing nation of "Palestine." From the time of definitive destruction of the ancient Jewish commonwealth in 70 A.D., the land that comprises the current State of Israel never enjoyed independent existence but, rather, passed back and forth among competing world empires - Roman, Byzantine, Arab, Crusader, Mamaluke, Ottoman and British. Over the course of more than 1,800 years, no nation with the name "Palestine" appeared on any maps, anywhere. The distinguished Arab-American historian Philip Hitti, professor at Princeton University, testified to the Anglo American Committee in 1946: "There is no such thing as 'Palestine' in history, absolutely not."

As for the idea that Palestinan Arabs solely occupied the area, Jews always lived there and returned in waves to the area since the 9th century. The Ottoman 1882 census showed no more than 250,000 people in the area that now holds 10 million. At that time, the population was split and the Jews began to immigrate more heavily back to their ancestral home. In 1922, the League of Nations, and their 52 member nations endorsed and recognized Israel as a "national home for the Jewish people.

During WWII, the Arabs mostly left on their own initiative, leaving whatever squatters' rights they may have had to the whims of chance. They threw their futures to their hopes of Hitler winning the war with visions of being rewarded and stealing land the Israeli's had nurtured and improved. The lands they had abandoned were desolate and unimproved. Only areas that the Jews built up were coveted.

The war ended, and the U.N. validated the Balfour Declaration, ruling on legitimate ownership of the area by the Israelis. Jews allowed the now homeless Arabs, who had been welcomed to their Arab neighbor's largesse during the war years, to reenter back into the Israeli-owned lands because they were kicked out by the hypocritical arab neighbors. The 20 surrounding Arab states refused any reentry to their lands, forcing the Palestinian Arabs into refugee camps. The only sponsors sustaining them were the Israelis. Their Arab neighbors ignored the refugees entirely, with a callous avoidance of any support, with the goal of putting the onerous cost of their sustenance entirely on the backs of the Israelis.

Over the rest of the world - no refugee camps ever lasted as long as the Palestinians. Either the people moved on, moved to neighboring areas, or built their place in the world of man. Their neighbors, except for Israel, abandoned them - and the refugees, themselves, rejected any attempt to lift themselves up by their own bootstraps and build a self-sustaining home. The grants to them of the Gaza, the West Bank, and other areas in which they squatted, was as much an attempt to get out from under the responsibility of sustaining those who have pledged to destroy Israel, as being generous in order to buy world positive opinion.
Quote:I cannot say where most lived,I would have assumed Jerusalem as both groups have religious icons there and except for Tel Aviv,what other city exists in Israel in 1915? However,there is Jaffa as well. Lots of the Arabs were bedouins.

After 1945,Jews flooded into Palestine and the British tried desperately to stop the immigration,but could not. After the holocaust,it was inevitable Palestine would become Israel again,if you and I were Jews,we wouldn't rely on Gentiles as hosts ever again after that honestly.

1) They did not live in great numbers in Jerusalem. The 19th century Zionist immigrants congregated around Tel Aviv, Acre, some other places near the coast.

2) The flood of immigration happened after the Israelis won the 1949 war, and Truman recognized Israel as a country. The Jewish immigration happened *after* the Arabs left.

3) In 1912, when the British arbitrarily decided to grant the Jews a homeland, Jews up 10% of the population of existing Palestine. Most Jewish immigration to Palestine happened after that.
Truth is, the creation of Israel parallels the creation of many different states in the 20th century: it was created by military force alone. Because of the sheer number of other states created by such means, it would be ridiculous to treat the Jews differently and force them to give up their land. That being said, though, the Jews don't have more moral authority than, say, the Kosovars, to live where they are and have their own state. Like most of the Serbian states, Israel was created through a combination of military battle and forcing other ethnicities into neighboring areas.
John L Wrote:That's a common strategy with countries wishing to slowly alter the attitudes of a victim of their conquests. Just look at the populations of Ukraine, and Balkan states. Russians were moved there in large numbers and now make up a sizable minority, which greatly influences their policies. There are ohters on the current list, but that comes to mind quickly.
I just applaud to this post. Balkan or Baltic?
Learn geography, together with Bush.
Russians presented in Baltic countries before revolutions and USSR and was quite a sizable minority for centuries.
As for Ukraine, this ethnos lives mixed with Russians from the Carpat mountains to Vladivostok and their national identity is so marred by that fact that "Ukranian" state looks more like a fiction.
Pixiest Wrote:Mass immigration is a powerful weapon of war.

It's how we took most of this country from Native Americans. How we took Texas from Mexico. It's even how we took Europe from the Neanderthals.

It's why we need to control our immigration from Mexico and Israel can't allow right of return for Palistinians. And it's what will ultimately doom Europe to Sharia.
Thank you Pixiest, for liberating us from the Neanderthals. If they are not in Europe no more, were have they gone to? Your statements deliver strong clues...
Green Wrote:
John L Wrote:That's a common strategy with countries wishing to slowly alter the attitudes of a victim of their conquests. Just look at the populations of Ukraine, and Balkan states. Russians were moved there in large numbers and now make up a sizable minority, which greatly influences their policies. There are ohters on the current list, but that comes to mind quickly.
I just applaud to this post. Balkan or Baltic?
Learn geography, together with Bush.
Russians presented in Baltic countries before revolutions and USSR and was quite a sizable minority for centuries.
As for Ukraine, this ethnos lives mixed with Russians from the Carpat mountains to Vladivostok and their national identity is so marred by that fact that "Ukranian" state looks more like a fiction.

Balkans, Baltics,.............hell, they all look alike to me. Wink1 Didn't someone once say that before? Wink1
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