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Newsmax Reported:

There is an archive of captured Iraqi military and intelligence documents known as the Harmony data base. This is the basis for much of the Institute for Defense Analysis (IDA) report released by the Pentagon in March of 2008. That anti-administration clique within the Pentagon leaked a portion of the executive summary to a complicit media. This leak said the report's authors found "no smoking gun" or "direct connection" between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda.

However, the 600,000 documents in the Harmony data base included some which were purposefully glossed-over by the Bush-haters. The report, itself, cautioned that no such direct opinion such as the "no smoking gun" one can be correctly applied because "this is not a comprehensive, end-all, all-in-one study."

Evidently they cherry-picked some aspects and ignored others, including a Jan 18, 1993 order from Saddam to his head of the Iraqi Intelligence Service, "to hunt the Americans that are in Arab lands, especially in somalia, by using Arab elements or Asian (Muslims) or friends." The official reply stated clearly that Iraq already had ties with a large number of international terrorist groups, including "the Islamist Arab elements that were fighting in Afghanistan and [currently] have no place to base and are physically present in Somalia, Sudan, and Egypt." (This refers to al-Qaeda.)

The IDA report said clearly that Iraq "was a long-standing supporter of international terrorism," and that these particular documents provided 'detailed evidence of that support.'" The report also said the documents " revealed Saddam was training Arab fighters (non-Iraqi) in Iraqi training camps more than a decade prior" to Dessert Storm. The documents cited that the terrorists being trained were members of Egyptian Islamic Jihad, whose leader, Dr. Ayman al-Zawahri, became the deputy leader of al Qaeda in 1998.

The report also stated that orders were given on Sept. 17, 2001 to Saddam's general military intelligence directorate to recruit Iraqi officers for "suicide operations" against the United States.
Quote:The 112-page Harmony data file ISGQ-2005-00037352 contains Saddam’s order, as well as personal pledges to carry out suicide operations from more than one hundred "volunteers," including a brigadier general.

In the order he issued just one week after the 9/11 attacks, Saddam stated that the volunteers should sign pledges "to be written in blood," presumably their own.

Some documents were left out of the IDA report:
Quote:Among them is a 1999 notebook kept by an unidentified Iraqi intelligence official that detailed meetings between top Iraqi leaders and visiting Islamic terrorists. (Harmony document ISGP-2003-0001412).

One Baghdad visitor was Maulana Fazlur Rahman a signer of Osama bin Laden’s infamous 1998 fatwa calling on Muslims to "murder Americans." Another was Afghan mujahedin leader Gulbudin Hekmatyar, who was also supported by Iran.

Roy Robison, a former U.S. government contractor who published an analysis of Saddam’s relationship to al-Qaida last year, argues that when Rahman met with Iraqi Vice president Taha Yassin Ramadan in 1999 "he did so as the father of the Taliban and as a leader of the World Islamic Front which declared war on the U.S the year before."

Another document not included in this latest report was a review by Iraqi Intelligence Service (IIS) of their ongoing ties with Osama bin Laden and other opponents to the Saudi regime (Harmony document ISGZ-2004-009247).

This document reads like a memorandum for the record, written in early 1997, tracing the beginnings of the Iraqi regime’s relationship to Osama bin Laden.

In a letter dated Jan. 11, 1995, Saddam Hussein personally authorized the General Director of Intelligence to establish direct contact with bin Laden in Sudan, the report states.

The initial meeting with bin Laden took place just one month later, on Feb. 19, 1995, and included an offer by Iraq to provide bin Laden with broadcasting facilities and a discussion of plans "to perform joint operations against foreign forces in the land of Hijaz [ie, Saudi Arabia].

Following bin Laden’s expulsion from Sudan, in July 1996, the memo states that the Iraqi intelligence service is "working to revitalize this relationship through a new channel."

The IDA report includes in its supporting documentation a detailed report by the Iraqi general director of intelligence in response to an "action directive" issued by Saddam on Jan. 18, 1993, ordering his intelligence service to establish relations with terrorist groups around the world and to develop the "expertise to carry out assignments."

There is little veracity left for any Bush-hater who still claims there was not any good reason to attack Iraq.
Anyone, who thinks al Qaeda and Iraq weren't in bed together is living in La La Land.
John L Wrote:Anyone, who thinks al Qaeda and Iraq weren't in bed together is living in La La Land.
---------------------------------------------
Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda were not any bedmates. But of course they existed in the same region so they could not ignore each other. But as you all know, the Pentagon review of documents captured after the invasion in Iraq showed no trace of significant links between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_Huss...d_al-Qaeda

You could as well search for links between anyone else and Al Qaeda....

/track_snake
track_snake: addressed and answered. It always helps to read the first post in a thread.
Yea,part of the problem with Track and people like Track is willful ignorance,BUT,part of it is because we ourselves are willfully ignorant.

Egyptian Islamic jihad IS the precursor,the Genesis of al qaeda and the report documents open ties between them(specifically Zawahiri) and Saddam,Iraq even had a specific organization that guided the terrorist association process.

However,in our willful ignorance,we claim they had no "direct operational ties" to al qaeda. That is misleading and false,they DID,they even dealt with Osama himself,but since the reporters found that Osama did not take direct orders from Saddam,it then is "no direct operational ties".

Look,we've got a President who knows nothing whatsoever about Islam and claims Islam is a true and peaceful faith,America can be said to be in a strong delusiuonal mentality and this report shows it. I expect no better with a leader that runs across the earth giving moral support to the religion that drives 20% of the earth to hate Jews and Christians and America and war on each and tries hard as he can to give statehood to a Hamas mentality Palestinian Arab bunch.

Before I can blame track,I have to blame Americans first.



ReadItHere
WmLambert Wrote:track_snake: addressed and answered. It always helps to read the first post in a thread.

I repeat my statement again, for T_S behalf.

Quote:Anyone, who thinks al Qaeda and Iraq weren't in bed together is living in La La Land.
John L Wrote:
WmLambert Wrote:track_snake: addressed and answered. It always helps to read the first post in a thread.

I repeat my statement again, for T_S behalf.

Quote:Anyone, who thinks al Qaeda and Iraq weren't in bed together is living in La La Land.
-----------------------------------
Yes. But there was no significant connection between Saddam and Al Qaeda or Osama Bin Laden.

Remember that Saddam never liked Al Qaeda. He rather viewed them as a threat to his power base. He could easily have supported Al Qaeda much more but he didn't. His Baath Party was far away from Al Qaeda in thinking.

Your statement that Al Qaeda and Saddam were in bed together is only wishful thinking. Why are you not trying to find out other connections like if King Abdullah was in bed with Osama or if the Bin Laden Construction Corp. in Saudi Arabia (one of the dominant contractors for infrastructure investment in Saudi Arabia) was in bed with Osama?

/track_snake
T_S Wrote:Your statement that Al Qaeda and Saddam were in bed together is only wishful thinking.
You are the one indulging in wishful thinking.
Track,
Ever READ the report? Try it,you'll see there is evidence from Saddam's own documentation.
Hey, he also could not be bothered to read that Global Cooling related article I tried to get him to read, remember? It would violate his sense of a carefully laid out world view, in which he has the answers already set forth in his somewhat less than pliable brain.

Can you imagine what would happen if he DID bother to read the report? Do you know what could happen? Have you ever played around with C4 before? And have you ever considered playing with it around electrical equipment that broadcasts ever changing frequencies? Why you may even hear the effect of such things all the way from the Philippines, and without electronic amplification. Wink1
John L Wrote:Hey, he also could not be bothered to read that Global Cooling related article I tried to get him to read, remember? It would violate his sense of a carefully laid out world view, in which he has the answers already set forth in his somewhat less than pliable brain.

Can you imagine what would happen if he DID bother to read the report? Do you know what could happen? Have you ever played around with C4 before? And have you ever considered playing with it around electrical equipment that broadcasts ever changing frequencies? Why you may even hear the effect of such things all the way from the Philippines, and without electronic amplification. Wink1
----------------------------------------------
There is NO evidence of a global cooling. What has happened is that the warming is less pronounced in 2008.

And there is NO evidence that points to clear ties between Saddam and Al Qaeda. It is only wishful thinking from those who want to explain why US invaded Iraq in 2003.

What has happened is that there are indications of contacts between the Iraqi government under Saddam and Al Qaeda-oriented organizations. But remember, Saddam disliked Al Qaeda and was afraid of cooperating with them for different reasons.

Why the US invaded Iraq in 2003? I think Pentagon did not know exactly. They might have thought that Saddam sheltered terrorists. Or that he had WMD:s.

Alan Greenspan has said that the real reason for the invasion was oil. Or that US wanted bases in Iraq closer to Iran.

/track_snake
track_snake Wrote:There is NO evidence of a global cooling. What has happened is that the warming is less pronounced in 2008.

And there is NO evidence that points to clear ties between Saddam and Al Qaeda. It is only wishful thinking from those who want to explain why US invaded Iraq in 2003.

What has happened is that there are indications of contacts between the Iraqi government under Saddam and Al Qaeda-oriented organizations. But remember, Saddam disliked Al Qaeda and was afraid of cooperating with them for different reasons.

Why the US invaded Iraq in 2003? I think Pentagon did not know exactly. They might have thought that Saddam sheltered terrorists. Or that he had WMD:s.

Alan Greenspan has said that the real reason for the invasion was oil. Or that US wanted bases in Iraq closer to Iran.

/track_snake

I can see why you tend not to read other's articles: you are not able to fully understand the ones you do read. Case in Point.

“I am saddened that it is politically inconvenient to acknowledge what everyone knows: the Iraq war is largely about oil,”-Alan Greenspan

Unfortunately, the statement can be taken to mean pretty much what anyone wishes it to be, and he should know not to speak go general in nature, because there are those, such as T_S, who will always take it the wrong way.

T_S uses the word "WAS" and Greenspan used the word "ABOUT", which is different. The reason we went to war there "Wasn't" for oil. We have not taken any of it for ourselves. Therefore, we were not trying to posess it.

However, the main reason was "About" the subject of oil. We wanted to ensure the free flow on the world markets, and not have it used as a weapon against the free world. There is a Huge difference there, and aparently T_S has more than a little trouble wrapping his mental fingers around the difference in concept.

Sorry T_S, but you really should get out more often. Wink1
Still,the report based on Saddam's documents details vividly a working relationship between Saddam and many Islamic terror groups,to include close relations with Egyptian Islamic jihad and Zawahiri(who it shows alos had a strong working deal with Iran). He as well had Bin laden interviewed by his agents,simply would not allow Bin Laden a free hand,but he was not only willing but DID work with Osama and at one time offered iraq as a haven.

It's in IRAQ'S documents. Here is a short easy to read synopsis:

HERE

Here is evidence Iraq had tried to terrorize Britain since 1999:

HERE
Palladin Wrote:Still,the report based on Saddam's documents details vividly a working relationship between Saddam and many Islamic terror groups,to include close relations with Egyptian Islamic jihad and Zawahiri(who it shows alos had a strong working deal with Iran). He as well had Bin laden interviewed by his agents,simply would not allow Bin Laden a free hand,but he was not only willing but DID work with Osama and at one time offered iraq as a haven.

It's in IRAQ'S documents. Here is a short easy to read synopsis:

HERE

Here is evidence Iraq had tried to terrorize Britain since 1999:

HERE

---------------------------------
Yes. I don't doubt that. But as said, there was never any operational link between Saddam and Al Qaeda. And as I said, Saddam had other interests than Al Qaeda. He actually saw Al Qaeda as a threat to his and the Baath Party's interests in the region.

So the Al Qaeda/Saddam track is not any hot. Al Qaeda had and has many other supporters in the region. And what about the Bin Ladin family which is among the richest in Saudi Arabia thanks to their involvement in construction business. Don't you think that connection would be interesting to study?

How much of the billions of dollars spent on construction in Dubai and other places right now is going into Al Qaeda's pockets through their 'charity funds'?

/track_snake
WmLambert Wrote:Newsmax Reported:

There is an archive of captured Iraqi military and intelligence documents known as the Harmony data base. This is the basis for much of the Institute for Defense Analysis (IDA) report released by the Pentagon in March of 2008. That anti-administration clique within the Pentagon leaked a portion of the executive summary to a complicit media. This leak said the report's authors found "no smoking gun" or "direct connection" between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda.

However, the 600,000 documents in the Harmony data base included some which were purposefully glossed-over by the Bush-haters. The report, itself, cautioned that no such direct opinion such as the "no smoking gun" one can be correctly applied because "this is not a comprehensive, end-all, all-in-one study."

Evidently they cherry-picked some aspects and ignored others, including a Jan 18, 1993 order from Saddam to his head of the Iraqi Intelligence Service, "to hunt the Americans that are in Arab lands, especially in somalia, by using Arab elements or Asian (Muslims) or friends." The official reply stated clearly that Iraq already had ties with a large number of international terrorist groups, including "the Islamist Arab elements that were fighting in Afghanistan and [currently] have no place to base and are physically present in Somalia, Sudan, and Egypt." (This refers to al-Qaeda.)

The IDA report said clearly that Iraq "was a long-standing supporter of international terrorism," and that these particular documents provided 'detailed evidence of that support.'" The report also said the documents " revealed Saddam was training Arab fighters (non-Iraqi) in Iraqi training camps more than a decade prior" to Dessert Storm. The documents cited that the terrorists being trained were members of Egyptian Islamic Jihad, whose leader, Dr. Ayman al-Zawahri, became the deputy leader of al Qaeda in 1998.

The report also stated that orders were given on Sept. 17, 2001 to Saddam's general military intelligence directorate to recruit Iraqi officers for "suicide operations" against the United States.
Quote:The 112-page Harmony data file ISGQ-2005-00037352 contains Saddam’s order, as well as personal pledges to carry out suicide operations from more than one hundred "volunteers," including a brigadier general.

In the order he issued just one week after the 9/11 attacks, Saddam stated that the volunteers should sign pledges "to be written in blood," presumably their own.

Some documents were left out of the IDA report:
Quote:Among them is a 1999 notebook kept by an unidentified Iraqi intelligence official that detailed meetings between top Iraqi leaders and visiting Islamic terrorists. (Harmony document ISGP-2003-0001412).

One Baghdad visitor was Maulana Fazlur Rahman a signer of Osama bin Laden’s infamous 1998 fatwa calling on Muslims to "murder Americans." Another was Afghan mujahedin leader Gulbudin Hekmatyar, who was also supported by Iran.

Roy Robison, a former U.S. government contractor who published an analysis of Saddam’s relationship to al-Qaida last year, argues that when Rahman met with Iraqi Vice president Taha Yassin Ramadan in 1999 "he did so as the father of the Taliban and as a leader of the World Islamic Front which declared war on the U.S the year before."

Another document not included in this latest report was a review by Iraqi Intelligence Service (IIS) of their ongoing ties with Osama bin Laden and other opponents to the Saudi regime (Harmony document ISGZ-2004-009247).

This document reads like a memorandum for the record, written in early 1997, tracing the beginnings of the Iraqi regime’s relationship to Osama bin Laden.

In a letter dated Jan. 11, 1995, Saddam Hussein personally authorized the General Director of Intelligence to establish direct contact with bin Laden in Sudan, the report states.

The initial meeting with bin Laden took place just one month later, on Feb. 19, 1995, and included an offer by Iraq to provide bin Laden with broadcasting facilities and a discussion of plans "to perform joint operations against foreign forces in the land of Hijaz [ie, Saudi Arabia].

Following bin Laden’s expulsion from Sudan, in July 1996, the memo states that the Iraqi intelligence service is "working to revitalize this relationship through a new channel."

The IDA report includes in its supporting documentation a detailed report by the Iraqi general director of intelligence in response to an "action directive" issued by Saddam on Jan. 18, 1993, ordering his intelligence service to establish relations with terrorist groups around the world and to develop the "expertise to carry out assignments."

There is little veracity left for any Bush-hater who still claims there was not any good reason to attack Iraq.

Warmed over lies.

[Image: smiley%20yawning.gif]
The WSJ offers further evidence on Saddam's connection with terrorists.

The evidence for Saddam's terrorist connections and intent are many and manifest. Perhaps Osama was not sleeping with Hussein's daughter, but the connection is there nonetheless.
jt Wrote: The WSJ offers further evidence on Saddam's connection with terrorists.

The evidence for Saddam's terrorist connections and intent are many and manifest. Perhaps Osama was not sleeping with Hussein's daughter, but the connection is there nonetheless.

You mean to tell me that you have not heard "Q" expression of belief yet?[Image: smiley%20yawning.gif]
John L Wrote:Anyone, who thinks al Qaeda and Iraq weren't in bed together is living in La La Land.

Well, they may have been sharing the same motel room, but separate beds perhaps.

S2
Yet more flawed reassessments looking through the wrong end of the telescope, Saddam's ego-centric end.

From Bin Laden's perspective and, behind him, that of the Moslem Brotherhood as well as Wahabist perspectives, Saddam Hussein was part of the problem, not part of the solution. To the Islamic fundamentalists, Saddam and indeed Iraq were side shows to the "main game" – Egypt and Saudi Arabia. Also, Saddam's evolving fig leaf of Islamic pretensions did not obscure the fact that Saddam was a secular dictator ruling through a secular, nationalist, quasi-European Party.

Bin Laden's vision was to establish an anti-nationalist, fundamentalist Arabic Caliphate spanning Arabia. To the Islamic fundamentalists, Saddam and indeed Iraq were side shows to the "main game" – Egypt and Saudi Arabia. Had Bin Laden thought differently of Saddam Hussein, he could have proclaimed Saddam as his candidate for Caliph and supported Saddam in his seizure of Kuwait and prospective grab for the Gulf States and Saudi Arabia. He did not do so.

In 1996, when we flushed Bin Laden out of the Sudan and Bin Laden needed a refuge, he went to the Taliban-ruled Afghanistan where radical fundamentalism dominated. When we flushed him out of Afghanistan, he went to Pakistan's frontier provinces - where radical fundamentalism dominated. He certainly would not have gone to Iraq. Like Bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri is in exile from his home country, Egypt. Like Bin Laden, his post-exile AO has centered on the Sudan, Pakistan and of course Afghanistan. He was and is dangerous, but is not and never was Saddam's friend.

The proposition that Saddam and AQ had anything other than an occasional and very limited the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" relationship is a dry hole that some just can't stop humping.
I agree that Saddam Hussain and Osama Bin Laden were never friends and despised what the other stood for. On the other hand, they both despised Bush and the USA more. I continue to believe Iraq under Saddam was a serious threat to the US and the West whether he had existing WMDs and high level operational ties with Al-Qaeda or not.

Saddam's scientists had the proven ability to manufacture chemical weapons since they had done so and had used them in the past. Regardless of whether he had any on hand at that moment in time there is no doubt that he could have placed them back into production as soon as the sanctions were lifted and the controls exercised over him gone. That would have happened within the next few years if George W had not invaded and removed Saddam. There was little time left in a window of opportunity before the Qs of the world and various idiots out there had let Saddam get back to doing exactly what he had done previously.

If Saddam had placed chemical weapons back into production after the sanctions had been lifted would they have eventually ended up in the hands of Al-Qaeda or other terrorist organizations? I suspect so but who knows? It was far better to remove him and his homicidal regime from the picture than having taken a chance.
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