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No comment.
Right at the very end of the video.He talks about why Israel is a robust nation.

They know.But they do not care.

:lol:
I liked the part about the average Arab government employee working only 27 minutes a day. Actually, that's not all that bad, if you spend time in any government office, Feds or state. Wink1 8)
Let's play civil-servant jackstraw? Who moves first, loses.
Interesting. I wonder how long it took him to write his sermon. I don't see a lot of hard work etched in his physiognomy.
Muslims are a lot more than lazy and if the Jews and the Hindus and the Christians start killing these bastards like this it's too da.mn bad. Muslims want an all out massacre and see who wins,let's do it:

HERE
Sooner or later the Jews are going to say ENOUGH!, and take the offensive. Until then,..............who knows?
They've been taking the offensive for 60+ years.... there's too many Muslim civilians involved in their problem. Its the same with us and iraq. They can't solve the problem through military force without essentially committing genocide.

Its like Rome solved their own problems: "Create a desert".
Islamic genocide is an oxymoron. According to the religion topic, there is no salvation in Islam for good works or faith, but only through martyrdom. That being the case, every single Muslim must desire death over mere existence, and a martyrless life is pointless. This means should a nuclear bomb wipe out millions of Muslims, they would each be pleased by the action. Any killed in a genocide could claim martyrdom.
WmLambert Wrote:Islamic genocide is an oxymoron. According to the religion topic, there is no salvation in Islam for good works or faith, but only through martyrdom. That being the case, every single Muslim must desire death over mere existence, and a martyrless life is pointless. This means should a nuclear bomb wipe out millions of Muslims, they would each be pleased by the action. Any killed in a genocide could claim martyrdom.

You must be reading a different Qaran than Moslems read.
Followers of Moslem religion believe that good deeds more than faith results in going to heaven after death.
Moslems define Martyrdom as getting killed while defending your country, and believe martyries go to heaven. However, that is not the only way to go to heaven, after all very small fraction of Moslems die in wars.
According the definition of martyrdom described in that thread, Moslems would have believed that Mohammed did not go to heaven.

I would not believe everything what is written about Christianity in anti-Christian sites, but it appears to be Christians believe in everything what anti-Moslem sites write.
Kamil,

I know of a former Muslim in Africa(not personally,but via missonaries) who is a Christian convert and he told my friends that in the Koran Mohammad stated he was not sure WHAT his final destiny was.

However,in the same Koran it does state for a certainty you can go to heaven if you are a martyr. Assuming this is accurate and only a perusal of the Koran can prove or disprove it,it is a given that the Muslim is living life simply hoping to avoid hell,not knowing.

Then,the recruiter offers the 20 year old kid who has done wrong things(like all humans do) a guarantee of eternal life,quotes the verses in the Koran.

This may not impress you and the other agnostics here,but I am a believer in a personal God and while it is pure insanity to think the creator of the universe approves of murder,this GUARANTEE is what humanity is seeking.

It is what drove Martin Luther to revolt against the Catholic Church and started the reformation,because Catholics do not accept sola Scriptura(the Bible alone as final Spiritual authority) and as such teach MUCH the same view as Islam does,that your life experience and life play the vital role in where you end up.

Whereas I appeal ONLY to Christ's finished Work on The Cross for my future. I am not worthy to even try and impress a perfect God,that's my Biblical view.

So,the guarantee for the guilty young Muslim boy is big to HIM,big enough to cause him to commit suicide because his recruiter has convinced him suicide is acceptable IF done to murder we Christians,Jews,Hindus,etc.

Anyway,after all the terrorist acts in the news daily,YES,it is easy to unfairly believe any negative thing about Islam,but having watched Walid Shoebat speak and heard of this converts comments,I am fairly certain Islam does NOT offer a guarantee of heaven other than matyrdom,otherwise you're just hoping.

Walid said the same thing(I have the DVD),that he was never taught he would go to heaven for certain,but he was when he was recruited as a PLO terrorist if he died doing it. His brother did,he got shot by the IDF planting a bomb and Walid was the lucky one,he got caught planting his bomb and arrested.

You were raised in Turkey where Islam simply is not the Islam of Mohammad. Turks are much more secular than other Muslims,you know this. I wish Turk Islam WAS Islam,we wouldn't be debating right now,we'd be agreeing on things like we almost always used to.

Below is an article about how people in Gaza feel about yesterday's murder of the Jewish rabbinical students and you wonder why I think Islam sucks? I think most Muslims secretly are wondering themselves ,including YOU.

HERE

Next is an article on the murderer,a TRUSTED employee of the seminary! Yet,these Muslims are cheerleading for his work and I guarantee you on Islamic websites 85% of posters will be cheerleading this just as these Arabs are in Gaza. His single action is not necessarily reflective on Islam,but the opinions of most Muslims about it is,IMO:

HERE
Whether it is for good or bad purpose, some people will use religion to recruit others to achieve their own goals. These people using religion for their own purpose might not be even religious, and could lie to achieve these goals.
Anybody who is a little bit familiar with Islam knows that suicide in any circumstance is considered unforgivable sin and is the quickest way to hell. Also harming innocent people, women and children falls into the same category.

An example of using religion for good purpose
[Image: Ataturk6.jpg]
Ataturk starting Jihad at the beginning of Independence Wars in Turkey.
After the wars were won, Ataturk ended Turkey's Calipath.
Kamil,

I know. The difference is the recruiter doesn't tell the young man suicide and killing us is killing INNOCENTS. By extension in today's paradigm,all "infidels" are at war with Islam,so all of us are targets.

Suicide is being justified by Imam's all over Islam IF you kill unbelievers. Largely,Islam is what the Imam tells you it is. That used to be true in Christendom until Martin Luther's era when Christians decided to take a look at the Bible instead of trusting everything their local Priest told them and it has had a positive effect on society,too.

I like what Turkey's Imam's are doing,but they are in the small minority,I will remind you again,Islam is an Arab centric religion and Arabs make the rules largely.

Judaism and even Christiantiy are largely Hebrew Centric faiths,yet Hebrews today do not get to change up various doctrinal rules,those are set in stone. They started Christianity(this pisses off many unbelieving Jews,but it is a historical fact),but the game plan is not adjustable by the local Preacher today. Well,not if he sticks with Scripture that is.

His family and his neighborhood see him as a hero and to me THIS makes me jaundiced against Islam. The poor murderer is now in hell,I actually feel terrible for him and his victims:

HERE
It does not matter if a Moslem is from Turkey, Central Asia, Far East or Arabia. If they are Moslems, they should follow what Quran says, and Quran clearly states that suicide in any circumstance and killing innocents, women and children are unforgivable sins.

Problem of extremism lies with the unqualified so called Imams and their ignorant followers.

I know that Turkey requires good education for Imams and they are randomly monitored for their teachings. Even than occasionally an unqualified person acts as an Imam, the attendants of prayer services should pay close attention to these type of Imams.
There is a saying in Turkey that goes like this, "if an imam passes gas, his followers will defecate".
Kamil,

I agree with your side,but you have to admit,there are a lot of Muslim Imams teaching some serious hatefulness now.

I think it is rather easy to justify ones conduct,we all can rationalize.

The young,impressionable kid like this 20 year old here probably doesn't understand the first thing about Islamic history,dogma,etc. He knows what his Imam taught him and his associates who gravitated into this cauldron of evil repeated 5 million X.

Even I will admit that taking Bible verses out of context or not understanding the isagogics of the day(history,idioms,culture,etc.) can lead me into some stupid ass thinking. I'm a stickler for a serious academic view of Scripture,not the traditional view most Christians exercise.
Palladin Wrote:Kamil,

I agree with your side,but you have to admit,there are a lot of Muslim Imams teaching some serious hatefulness now.

I agree, for Turkey it is a more of a problem with the diaspora. In EU Nations, Imams are not as qualified or monitored as close as done in Turkey.
Well,based on literal numbers,I don't see many Turks heading into this irrationality. I don't see many Malaysians doing so and not many Indonesians(which is great,that is a LOT of Muslims).

We see the Arabs and their latter day wahabbized proselytes in Pakistan and some sectors of Central Asia(Uzbeks mostly) as well as Egyptians.
I guess the archbishop wouldn't appease these Islamic murderers and recant his faith. For Kamil,THIS is a Christian martyr. A human who was persecuted and murdered simply because of his association with Jesus Christ.

No virgins,none of the stuff about pleasing God by murdering innocent people like Islam teaches,none of the going to heaven cause of it,he already had that guarantee via faith.

Just being persecuted for believing what Scripture says about Jesus of Nazareth,that's all. Here's your Christian martyr,brought on by religious fanatics within Islam. Yes,he has special returns for this,but his eternal status was purchased by Christ on The Cross.





HERE
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