AI-Jane Political, And Economic Forums

Full Version: There Goes the Neighbourhood
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.
Quote:Anger over plan to broadcast Muslim call to prayer on loudspeaker in Oxford

Muslim plans to broadcast a loudspeaker call to prayer from a city centre mosque have been attacked by local residents who say it would turn the area into a "Muslim ghetto".

Dozens of people packed out a council meeting to express their concerns over the plans for a two-minute long call to prayer to be issued three times a day, saying that it could drown out the traditional sound of church bells.

But a spokesman for the Central Mosque said that Muslim's also have the right to summon worshippers.

Dr Mark Huckster, who lives in Stanton Road and works at East Oxford hospice Helen House, told the Oxford Mail: "The proposal to issue a prayer call is very un-neighbourly, especially in a crowded urban space such as Oxford.

"I have lived in the Middle East and a prayer call has a very different feel to church bells and I personally found the noise extremely unpleasant, rather disturbing and very alien to the western mindset."

He added: "If an evangelical Christian preacher proposed issuing sermons three times a day at full volume there would be an outcry.

"There could be a sense of ghettoisation of East Oxford. Cowley Road would have a Muslim flavour and could become a Muslim ghetto which is contrary to what we want in a multicultural society.

Dr Huckster was among six residents speaking in opposition to the plans, revealed in the Oxford Mail in November.

Allan Chapman, who lives in East Oxford, said: "We are concerned with civil liberties and civil peace and the right to be able to live in our own space.

"I do not want preaching at. It is not the tradition of this country or the tradition I subscribe to.

"I find this totally, utterly unacceptable and I plan to do whatever I can to stop it."

David Hutcheson, of East Avenue, said: "I'm very happy for people to practice their own religion but very unhappy about the thought of having a loudspeaker broadcasting any messages into my private space."

After the meeting, Sardar Rana, a spokesman for the Central Mosque, said he would be happy to clarify any issues and invited anyone to come to the mosque so he could satisfy their concerns.

He said: "The call is going on in so many places in the UK, and we must get the same right as everybody else.

"When they ring the bells in church, we respect it but that is also a call to prayer.

"We don't want to do anything that will disturb the people or upset the people."

The first and only time I heard a Muslim called to prayer was in Tunis, we started laughing and mocking it, but no one complained.
WarBicycle Wrote:The first and only time I heard a Muslim called to prayer was in Tunis, we started laughing and mocking it, but no one complained.

Not only is it totally alien to me and you, it is totally un-western. it makes my teeth itch just to hear that "fill in the blank".

I hope those blokes like all that Eurabian influence. The more they have to swallow, the sooner they will finally say ENOUGH!

Even Shirley Bassey says ]it isn't her London any more.
I believe the call to prayer is an invasion of my privacy. It is intrusive and unacceptable.
Personally,I don't think I ever heard Church Bells,but these guys use that as a comparison.

I wouldn't want to hear that "muzzein call" under any circumstances,but it wouldn't be quite so disgusting a sound if Muslims in their own lands did not discriminate against non Muslims so openly.

You don't have Christians,Buddhists and Hindus going to Mecca for religious rights after all.
Oh no, it's Bicyclette de Guerre's obsessional bogeyman!!

Daily Mail Wrote:Dozens of people packed out a council meeting to express their concerns over the plans for a two-minute long call to prayer to be issued three times a day, saying that it could drown out the traditional sound of church bells.

In the UK they don't even like the church bells these days!

Couple drop church bells protest

Noise complaints could be death knell for Betjeman's church bells

200-Year-Old Tradition Of Church Bells Might Be Silenced

I live near two Masjid and I find the muezzin's call to pray less intrusive than the sound of church bells, for a while I lived close by St. Mary's Redcliffe in Bristol England and found the Sunday morning bell ringing rather a rude awakening after a Saturday night on the town.

Can I take this opportunity to wish all our Christians a happy Christmas, here's hoping they and their governments pay heed to the Christmas message of "peace on Earth, goodwill to all mankind".

Bicyclette de Guerre Wrote:first and only time I heard a Muslim called to prayer was in Tunis, we started laughing and mocking it
..that's you in a nutshell.
WarBicycle Wrote:
Quote:Anger over plan to broadcast Muslim call to prayer on loudspeaker in Oxford

Muslim plans to broadcast a loudspeaker call to prayer from a city centre mosque have been attacked by local residents who say it would turn the area into a "Muslim ghetto".

Dozens of people packed out a council meeting to express their concerns over the plans for a two-minute long call to prayer to be issued three times a day, saying that it could drown out the traditional sound of church bells.

But a spokesman for the Central Mosque said that Muslim's also have the right to summon worshippers.

Dr Mark Huckster, who lives in Stanton Road and works at East Oxford hospice Helen House, told the Oxford Mail: "The proposal to issue a prayer call is very un-neighbourly, especially in a crowded urban space such as Oxford.

"I have lived in the Middle East and a prayer call has a very different feel to church bells and I personally found the noise extremely unpleasant, rather disturbing and very alien to the western mindset."

He added: "If an evangelical Christian preacher proposed issuing sermons three times a day at full volume there would be an outcry.

"There could be a sense of ghettoisation of East Oxford. Cowley Road would have a Muslim flavour and could become a Muslim ghetto which is contrary to what we want in a multicultural society.

Dr Huckster was among six residents speaking in opposition to the plans, revealed in the Oxford Mail in November.

Allan Chapman, who lives in East Oxford, said: "We are concerned with civil liberties and civil peace and the right to be able to live in our own space.

"I do not want preaching at. It is not the tradition of this country or the tradition I subscribe to.

"I find this totally, utterly unacceptable and I plan to do whatever I can to stop it."

David Hutcheson, of East Avenue, said: "I'm very happy for people to practice their own religion but very unhappy about the thought of having a loudspeaker broadcasting any messages into my private space."

After the meeting, Sardar Rana, a spokesman for the Central Mosque, said he would be happy to clarify any issues and invited anyone to come to the mosque so he could satisfy their concerns.

He said: "The call is going on in so many places in the UK, and we must get the same right as everybody else.

"When they ring the bells in church, we respect it but that is also a call to prayer.

"We don't want to do anything that will disturb the people or upset the people."

The first and only time I heard a Muslim called to prayer was in Tunis, we started laughing and mocking it, but no one complained.
--------------------------------------
Well....

If you hear this every day you might complain more about it...

We have come to a time when the citizens of UK have to accept that they are living in an increasingly Muslim state. Those who are annoyed by Muslim prayer calls have to leave the country or move to some part where the Muslim dominance is less....

England will at the end undergo the same transformation as Kosovo...

/track_snake
TS Wrote:England will at the end undergo the same transformation as Kosovo...
I'd actually credited you with more sense! :lol:
track_snake Wrote:[quote="WarBicycle"]We have come to a time when the citizens of UK have to accept that they are living in an increasingly Muslim state. Those who are annoyed by Muslim prayer calls have to leave the country or move to some part where the Muslim dominance is less....

England will at the end undergo the same transformation as Kosovo...

/track_snake
I think a society has a right to preserve its character. Never underestimate the Brits.

Eventually, the Euros will just cut down on the cradle to grave welfare benefits and the rats will go scurrying back.
JBG Wrote:
track_snake Wrote:[quote="WarBicycle"]We have come to a time when the citizens of UK have to accept that they are living in an increasingly Muslim state. Those who are annoyed by Muslim prayer calls have to leave the country or move to some part where the Muslim dominance is less....

England will at the end undergo the same transformation as Kosovo...

/track_snake
I think a society has a right to preserve its character. Never underestimate the Brits.
-----------------------------------------------
Well...

That was what Serbia wanted with Kosovo also.

But since Kosovo was flooded with Albanian immigrants and their children, the UN proposed autonomy for Kosovo (meaning the rest of the Christians have to leave...)

What is saying that the development in England, or at least parts of it, would not be the same? That the Muslim dominance become so strong that the Christians see no other alternative than to leave? Or convert to Islam?

/track_snake
The population of Kosovo is some 2m and its Muslim population is not new. Islam came to Kosovo with the Ottomans in 1459. Islam has been a significant minority or the majority religion ever since. By comparison in England, with a population of 49m according to the 2001 census, some 3.1% of the population claim to follow Islam. I'm sorry but your comparison is laughable.
Monsieur Le Tonk Wrote:The population of Kosovo is some 2m and its Muslim population is not new. Islam came to Kosovo with the Ottomans in 1459. Islam has been a significant minority or the majority religion ever since. By comparison in England, with a population of 49m according to the 2001 census, some 3.1% of the population claim to follow Islam. I'm sorry but your comparison is laughable.
-------------------------------------------
Well...

According to my friends in Kosovo most of its Muslim population actually is new. It was predominantly orthodox christian until Tito allowed Albanians to settle there in the early 1960-ies. Before that, there were only few muslims in Kosovo; being a remain of the Ottomans.

Pristina, the biggest city in Kosovo, was mainly orthodox until that time. Now it is 90% Muslim. Apart from Albanians allowed to settle in Kosovo by Tito, it is also the strong nativity of the Albanian Muslims (6-7 children per family on the average) that has contributed to the Muslim 'takeover' in Kosovo.

Today, about 200.000 of the 2 millions in Kosovo are non-muslims. I think there is no one that disputes that those will have to leave Kosovo if the Ahtisaari Plan is implemented. The only possibility to 'control' the Albanian muslims in Kosovo is to keep it as a province in Serbia.

As for England, the muslims are 3.1 % now. But in 10 years it will be 5%, in 20 years 10%, and in 50 years more than 50%.... And at the end England will follow the same fate as Kosovo...

/track_snake
TS Wrote:According to my friends in Kosovo most of its Muslim population actually is new.
I think you'll find your friends in Kosovo are mistaken

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic..._of_Kosovo

As for England, your population escalator has no basis in fact. I recall the same scenario postulated for the black population in the 60s and asians in the 70s ~ it didn't happen.
T_S,
your concern about Europe is heartwarming, but may I remind you that your country and continent are a lot more radical-Muslim infested, and that's one of your smallest troubles?
Reactionaries are like broken watches, their time actually comes to a standstill. There are plenty new less wealthy nations in the EU, the Schengen zone was joined by nine more countries recently. From the Baltikum to Portugal, that's about as many nations as along the Panamericana, not a single border check. Countries like UK now complain about the invasion of East Europeans, a million Poles or so. Immigration of Muslims came to a standstill, the visa rules for Non-Europeans became much tougher. The reproduction of Muslims is slowing down, due to growing wealth and adoption of European culture. Might rise a further percent or two, no more.
Need to add again, what concerns are you talking about having Muslims in Europe in mind? We cordially welcome our Muslim friends and allies, admiring the strenght, clarity and absence of hypocrisy in their faith. :lol:
Monsieur Le Tonk Wrote:As for England, your population escalator has no basis in fact. I recall the same scenario postulated for the black population in the 60s and asians in the 70s ~ it didn't happen.
Again, everyone's ignoring the second portion of my post, which concerns the dellivery of social services and welfare. If that is cut off, the procreativity of the Muslims will drop because without working mega-hours or getting high paid jobs that "Islamic education" wouldn't qualify them for, they won't be able to feed those children. Similarly, a Britain without cradle-to-grave welfare won't attract as many Muslim immigrants.

One can be sure that the strain on taxpayers will force these changes in Britain and throughout Europe, even if the politicians are not so out of touch as to not do it themselves.
Monsieur Le Tonk Wrote:
TS Wrote:According to my friends in Kosovo most of its Muslim population actually is new.
I think you'll find your friends in Kosovo are mistaken

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic..._of_Kosovo

As for England, your population escalator has no basis in fact. I recall the same scenario postulated for the black population in the 60s and asians in the 70s ~ it didn't happen.
------------------------------------
Yes. And I read that. And it confirms that Kosovo has gone from a 90% Serb domination in the 15th century to a 90% Albanian domination now. So what? It is also true that Tito allowed Albanians to settle in Kosovo in larger numbers and that their higher nativity contributed to the situation of today. And nobody believes that one single Serb will stay in Kosovo if they (UN) gives autonomy to Kosovo.

And in England, that is slowly going to happen too....

/track_snake
TS Wrote:So what?
So it clearly refutes your earlier statement:

"According to my friends in Kosovo most of its Muslim population actually is new. It was predominantly orthodox christian until Tito allowed Albanians to settle there in the early 1960-ies. Before that, there were only few muslims in Kosovo; being a remain of the Ottomans."

TS Wrote:And in England, that is slowly going to happen too....
I would beg to differ. Previous experience in the UK with black and Asian immigration shows that with increased prosperity birthrates fall. Your analogue is bogus.

JBG Wrote:Again, everyone's ignoring the second portion of my post, which concerns the dellivery of social services and welfare. If that is cut off, the procreativity of the Muslims will drop because without working mega-hours or getting high paid jobs that "Islamic education" wouldn't qualify them for, they won't be able to feed those children. Similarly, a Britain without cradle-to-grave welfare won't attract as many Muslim immigrants.
What data evidences Muslims in Britain are predominantly reliant on the welfare state for support?
Monsieur Le Tonk Wrote:
TS Wrote:So what?
So it clearly refutes your earlier statement:

"According to my friends in Kosovo most of its Muslim population actually is new. It was predominantly orthodox christian until Tito allowed Albanians to settle there in the early 1960-ies. Before that, there were only few muslims in Kosovo; being a remain of the Ottomans."
---------------------
Well...

According to your Wikipedia article, the Serb population was important as late as during the 19th century; according to some sources about 50%. But I agree that the Albanian share has increased ever since the Ottomans.

Nevertheless, what I mean is that the present rapidly growing Albanian population was an effect of Tito's invitation to Albanians to settle in Kosovo and the following immigration/birth rates of Albanians. Now the Serbian share is less that 10% of the population in Kosovo and if the Ahtisaari plan is going to be implemented with a sovereign Muslim-dominated Kosovo the rest will leave too. Nobody dares to live in Kosovo without protection against the Albanians.

/track_snake