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12 Kurdish Workers and Temporary Village Guards from a small Kurdish Village close to the Iraqi Border has been murdered by the PKK Terrorists.
These villagers were working on digging a canal to bring water to their small village. PKK Terrorists don't like to see any improvements in the lives of Kurds living in Turkey. Since 1984 they have been targeting teachers, doctors, businessmen, and all the other workers who try to improve the lives of Kurds living in the South East Turkey.
After the recent killings there were mass demonstrations against PKK by the Kurds in Turkey.

Some details about these recent killings from the BBC News.

'Kurd attack' kills 12 in Turkey
At least 12 people were killed after Kurdish separatists ordered them off a bus in south-east Turkey and opened fire, Turkish officials have said.
Civilians and government-backed guards were said to be among the victims of the ambush, which happened on Saturday.

The attack, in Sirnak province near the Iraqi border, followed the killing of a Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) leader.

The Turkish Prime Minister, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, condemned the ambush, saying it would not go unpunished.

"Our determination to fight the terrorists will continue," he said. "They will definitely get a response."

Mr Erdogan said a resurgence in attacks was a sign of the PKK's "distress" at an army crackdown on its members.

On Sunday, two Kurdish rebels were killed in an incident on the Iraqi border, local media said.

Sticking point

The Turkish government in Ankara says 4,000 PKK fighters are operating from the Iraqi side of the border.

Turkey has been considering crossing the border to pursue the group.

But on Friday Iraq denied Turkey permission to pursue armed separatists onto Iraqi territory.

Instead Iraq and Turkey signed a wide-ranging security agreement, pledging to prevent finance, logistical support and propaganda for the PKK.

Ankara has warned Baghdad to crack down on Kurdish rebels in Iraq or face a possible incursion by Turkish troops.

The PKK has been fighting for autonomy in south-eastern Turkey since 1984 and more than 30,000 people have been killed in the conflict.

The PKK has been labeled a terrorist organization by Turkey, the US and the EU.

Story from BBC NEWS:
Turkey threatens Iraq border raid
The Turkish government is seeking parliamentary approval for a possible cross-border military operation to hunt down Kurdish separatists in Iraq.
Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan is under pressure to act from a Turkish public outraged by rebel attacks that have killed 15 soldiers since Sunday.

Iraq said that the best way to confront the rebels was through a security accord signed with Turkey last month.

The US also warned Turkey against making an incursion into northern Iraq.

"If they have a problem, they need to work together to resolve it and I am not sure that unilateral incursions are the way to go, the way to resolve the issue," said State Department spokesman Sean McCormack.

The US said it was committed to working with both Turkey and Iraq to combat the separatist Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) which is believed to be behind the attacks.

Correspondents say there are fears both in Baghdad and Washington that a military operation by Turkey could destabilise northern Iraq.

Tougher action

Many PKK rebels are believed to be hiding in northern Iraq.

On Tuesday Mr Erdogan chaired a meeting of senior officials to discuss tougher action against the PKK, including the possibility of military incursions into northern Iraq.

Ankara claims the organisation is a terrorist group that enjoys free movement in northern Iraq, where it has easy access to weapons and explosives.

"The order has been given for every kind of measure, including if needed a cross-border operation," said a statement released by Mr Erdogan's office.

Turkish Defence Minister Vecdi Gonul said parliamentary approval would be needed for any large-scale military incursion into northern Iraq.

But, he added, no such parliamentary authorisation would be required for more limited, "hot pursuit" cross-border operations.

Story from BBC NEWS:
I wish they'd do it and get it over with. My opinion is you cannot solve the problem that way. If I'm smart enough to drop my weapon and become a farmer,it's likely these guys are.

I predict Turkey does it,leaves and nothing fundamental has changed,except the relationship between the United States and Turkey.
Turkey Readies for Cross-Border Operation Against Kurds.
Palladin: Your wish may come true soon.

Do you ever check your PM's? I sent you some stuff about this topic..
I neglected to look at the "new messages indicator" at top top of forum for a few weeks. I read the articles you send me with great interest, thank you.
Assuming our current counter insurgency tactics are good,this will be one mistake for Turkey. You cannot solve this problem like we tried to solve Fallujah in 1004. Unless Turkey intends on occupying Iraqi Kurdistan for good and blasting the he.ll out of it like Russia did Grzony,they'll fail miserably.

Like I said,all they get is a sea change in relations with us and Iraq. To prevail,Turkey has to have a bottom up approach we see in Iraq now and blasting some "camps" will do only 1 good thing for Turkey. It will impress Turks.

It will do no more good for the PKK problem than I am typing,IMO.
What does "prevailing" mean against inoperable cancer? Perhaps all one can expect is keeping it in check, and keeping the moral of the patient (the Turkish population) up. Any metasticism should be excised. All of the distributed cells cannot be killed, as of now. Going further than this would be a mistake.
Security zones set up in N.Iraq by the Turks in the past worked. So does the Israeli barriers.
Neither would totally eliminate terrorists, but the number of attacks can be decreases.

BTW, while Putin's purge of Chechnya did reduce Chechen attacks a lot, we still hear about attacks in at least two neighboring "republics", so even Putin's prevailing was not absolute.

But Stalin's, against the same Chechens in 1944, was. He simply shipped them ALL out.
Jpost reports on the crisis in the US-Turkey relations

Now, just for the fun of it: Interpretations of the next big war that are based on Nostradamus tend to show Turkey as a major player on the Other side. It seems that the Congressional Idiots just made a small but valuable step toward that Reality. S7

My opinion is that the government of Turkey uses "bases in Iraq" as a political bone for the people. Turks are OK with me,but they have their own deadly myths.

At any rate,the people there also seem NOT to understand(and Kamil exhibits this exact cultural trait) that Kurds aren't Turks,have no desire to be Turks and chaff at being ruled by Turks. There are plenty of Kurds inside Turkey to supply all the PKK soldiers they need,they don't need "bases" in Iraq. What do they have on the Iraqi "bases"? Artillery,aircraft and M-1 tanks,right?

They don't need bases so much,they need KURDS to get lost among and they have that in Turkey. IMO,this base thing is an excuse the people of Turkey desire to hear to erase reality,they have subjugated a large group of humans who will not sit still for it and Turks simply will not face that reality.

An analogy would be if Tatars started a permanent anti Russki campaign.

What role did Iraqi bases play in the last 1970s when Turkey was nothing but chaos herself and the military had to take firm control to keep Turkey from becoming 2004 Baghdad?
In 1980s after conflict started with PKK, over 35,000 people were killed in Turkey. About 32,000 of the killed were of Kurdish origin, it was almost like a civil war among Kurds living in Turkey. PKK symphetizers against Kurds who supported Turkish Government.
At that time Syria and Iraq had terrorist camps for PKK members who were being trained on terror tactics. Syria closed these camps after Turkey prepared to attack them, and kicked out their leader Ocalan from Syria. Several cross border operations by Turks destroyed PKK camps in Iraq.
Most of the Kurds living in Turkey do not want anything to do with PKK, PKK terrorists won't find shelter and establish terrorist training camps in Turkey. They will be destroyed by Turkish Kurds before Turkish soldiers even come to their areas.
The recent attacks originating from N. Iraq camps murdered 12 Turkish Kurds who were just trying to improve their lives by building water canal to their small village. These PKK terrorists who just killed these Kurdish laborers in no way could find shelter among these people, they would get killed or reported to authorities the minute they set foot to any Kurdish village located in Turkey.
The way I see this is that it is the responsibility of a government to protect the population against external threats.

I find the US government negligent in this respect, and the Israeli government very negligent. I hope that the Turkish government lives up to its duties, and at minimal human cost.

And I do feel really sorry for the Kurds: this stupid PKK attack achieved nothing and messed up their cause...perhaps for good.

I don't think most Kurds prefer the attitude of the PKK as most Muslims don't prefer the attitude of al qaeda,BUT,most Kurds want to remain uniquely Kurds,speak Kurdish,rule themselves.
I would be for independence here if we were ruled by say Mexico,but I would be for the Mexican rule over a Marxist led organization of Americans only.

The rest of the information you present is not for me to dispute,I am not privy to Turk history. I agree with MV,the government there has the responsibility to protect the citizenry and as always I oppose the PKK so I have always sided with the government there in this situation and still do.

If the case is that the Iraq Kurds are assisting the PKK,then I am for Turkey doing this if it will help crush the terrs,I just don't believe it will help that much.
Had a beer last night with a Turk and we talked a lot about politics in Turkey. He's Muslim, but of a very modern sort. Not celebrating Ramadan (which ended yesterday or so?) while his mother still does. I didn't know that there are Muslims not complying with Ramadan. Opposes any rise of religion in Turkey, the 'corrupt' Erdogan, get's upset about the construction of new mosques everywhere and women walking around in Burqas. Steamed up about the broader introduction of sharia for Muslims in Malaysia recently. Doesn't see a risk of Kurdish independence, they are integrated all over the nation. Has Syrian roots himself, Turkish Arab.
quadrat Wrote:Had a beer last night with a Turk and we talked a lot about politics in Turkey.

A Mino?
By all accounts,Turks are Islam Lite. Kamil tells us there are a large number of "Alevis". These guys take it with a grain of salt,sort of the "we're all trying to know God idea". More tolerant,etc.