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Looks like the Brits have to make a hard choice. In order to maintain their Socialized Welfare State, they must give up the size of their navy. The other choice is to cut back on the entire program. Naturally Labour is not interested in doing any such thing. So the size of the navy will be cut drastically. Perhaps the fact that the US Navy will take up the slack is part of the reason for this decision. The days of the English Navy being a force with which to reckon are long past.

Quote:Labour's secret plans to slash the Navy
By Melissa Kite and Patrick Hennessy

Ministers have drawn up confidential proposals to slash the number of ships in the Royal Navy, The Sunday Telegraph can disclose.

The expected reductions follow a fierce row between Service chiefs and the Treasury over defence spending.
The total number of ships could be cut from 103 to just 50

The Ministry of Defence has produced a plan to decommission five warships from next April, which would reduce the Navy's capability to the level where it could carry out only "one small-scale operation".

Separate documentation from inside the department suggests that the total number of ships in the Navy and Royal Fleet Auxiliary could fall from the present level of 103 to 76 in 2017 and only 50 in 2027 — a reduction of more than half.
Bye bye Faulklands!

Will the Spain rise again? S1
What are comparable demographical trends?
No, we will see the resurgence of French naval power.
ag Wrote:Will the Spain rise again? S1
What are comparable demographical trends?

OFT: I keep blaming myself for not copying the data of the CIA factbook every year...this would be the best way to answer questions of this type.
All European states are losing "native" population with the exception of France,Bosnia and Albania(I think that's right). France is barely holding her head above water,the 2 Muslims states are growing like mad as always.
Heh-heh. Do you know why France is "holding"?????
mv Wrote:Heh-heh. Do you know why France is "holding"?????

Could it be the increase in the number of babies named Mohammed?
France's native population has the highest non Muslim birthrate in Europe. Of course they have a Mohammad problem,we do TOO.

They have as much authority here as there and we're cowtowing to Islam here as bad or worse than anyone over there is.
John L Wrote:
mv Wrote:Heh-heh. Do you know why France is "holding"?????

Could it be the increase in the number of babies named Mohammed?

Yep. France has a higher proportion of Islamic immigrants. I think their non-Arab birth rate is indeed relatively high but this is not significant.
Just read an article in the 'Economist' about Europe's demographics. The growth of the Muslim part is irrelevant, sorry to shake your dearest believe. :lol: They also are below the replacement rate of 2.1 kids per mother, except for Britain. It's their Pakistanis, not Arabs.
A couple of populations of European nations actually grow, Skandinavia, Ireland, France. Spain's doesn't. France will probably be the largest nation by population by 2050, overtaking Germany. Don't forget Algeria was part of the French Republic once, seen from this angle, the Muslim population of France is way smaller than sixty years ago.
I guess you read a bad article, Q. Or you read a good article..badly Wink1

The data is available on Wiki, see the table at the end.

I'll copy just a few numbers on fertility of French women, depending on their country of birth:

France 1.7
Algeria 2.57
Morocco 2.97
Turkey 3.21

The replacement level is 2.1
1.7 is actually pretty good for Europe, but -- sorry -- not good enough.
So what?
Average number of children born to women born in France 1,70
Average number of children born to all women in France 1,74
Difference 0,04 including immigrants. Big deal.
Part of the immigrants are Non-Muslims.
This map is good,
Seems nothing benefits the demographics like a good old-fashioned war. There'll be a day Afghanistan is grateful to America.
Quote:Difference 0,04 including immigrants. Big deal.

Around 0.15-0.2. Think this through, there is a hidden number in the Wiki data, you cannot simply subtract. Wink1
Hey, Q, the vast majority of Muslim immigrants to Europe are not Arabs from the start. Moroccans are not Arabs, nor are the vast numbers of Indonesians, Turks, and as you realized Pakistanis. In France the ethnic identities of its banlieues is predominantly North African with a significant Turkish layer as well as Muslims from sub-Saharan Africa. By far the largest Muslim group in Germany are the Turks, you do recall Berlin's Kleine Istanbul don't you. and within Benelux, East Asians predominate. We have to scratch the spas and the chateaux to find the "real" Arabs and these are far from migrants and more likely expatriates "taking the waters" so to speak.

Now, the question here is far more complex than Q attempts to fabricate with his juxtaposing of 1.70/1.74 averages. Such a simplistic approach obscures the demographics. It is estimated that the fertility rates for women in the 18-30 Age Group contrasts sharply: 4.4 for Muslim and 2.1 for others. Then there is the trait of recent Muslim immigrants in France to secure brides from their communities of origin, thus introducing another factor into the equation.

The Spanish are fast-building a comfortable transit route from Malaga to the Pyrenees so as to deflect the problem from their end :twisted:
Very good, Dr. S2

I was thinking only about the 2nd generation effect hidden in this statistics -- we can probably estimate its magnitude ourselves (Ag, need your statistical skills), but indeed there is also the effect of foreign bribes (and husbands) which I don't see how we can measure.
Very good Dr,
I see your brain is still around. Would you elaborate further, why you boys paint the great battle of cultures as a homogenous mass of Christians vs a homogenous mass of Muslims, then? Actually, the Muslims could not be any more different, and have anything else in mind but to oust the God of the Christians. As I told you before, the Muslim population of France has shrunken significantly since the loss of the province Algeria, and since wikipedia provides some accurate figures, we need no more of your guesswork concerning the fertility of Muslim wombs.
Good heavens, Q. you should get out more! Talking about Algeria and the pied noir is even stranger than reminiscing over Charles De Gaulle and Cohn Benedit...As it is Q, you are stuck in a time warp and speaking as if this were 1989 and the 3 million North African Muslims with immigrant status were either deceased or infertile. Besides, we are not discussing Harakis and instead focusing on numbers that some ten years ago were already estimated at over 4 million. That the French state does not collect either ethnic or religious data should not obscure the visual facts obvious in the urban environments of French industrial centers. There are at least some 5.5 to 6 million Muslim in France despite the legislated restriction of immigrant labor, and two-thirds of this number are concentrated in Paris, Lille and Marseilles. Nor are undocumented immigrants a rarity within the banlieues of Paris.

As for Wiki, please, better to rely on the CIA Fact Book!
Quote:Muslim checkout staff get an alcohol opt-out clause

MUSLIM supermarket checkout staff who refuse to sell alcohol are being allowed to opt out of handling customers’ bottles and cans of drink.

Islamic workers at Sainsbury’s who object to alcohol on religious grounds are told to raise their hands when encountering any drink at their till so that a colleague can temporarily take their place or scan items for them.

Other staff have refused to work stacking shelves with wine, beer and spirits and have been found alternative roles in the company.

Next Muslims working behind the meat counter will refuse to handle pork.
but Muslim shopkeepers have no problem selling cigarettes.
WarBicycle Wrote:Next Muslims working behind the meat counter will refuse to handle pork.

This will be somewhat more legitimate, there is a risk of coming in contact with pork. There is almost no such risk with alcohol...

Illogical and Insane.
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