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How many times could I read about your crusade against Nazi Germany as a justification for that great lie called "war on terror"? Let's get it straight, the small bonus you Americans got from WW2 is long gone, at the latest with your wars of conquest against Korea and Vietnam.
Germany was a superpower of its time. Second biggest economy, including the conquered territories probably bigger than the USA back then. Leading in science, strongest military power thanks to superior tactics and technologies. The civil war stuff you brought to the WW2 battlefields was at best laughable in comparison. Thank God, Germany lost anyway, against the alliance of nearly all other powers of that era. You might want to learn that military power is not everything.
How can you seriously compare Germany (or say the Axis) with the handful of terrorist today, who have virtually nothing but an unhealthy death wish and a few AK47? Better don't make idiots of yourselves.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
I compare them in their motive profiles,not their industrial comparisons. Both German Nazis and Muslims considered themselves as God's agents.

Both are and were,but not GOD's,but a god's named satan. In human history,he has often been named something else,like Hitler,Stalin,Baal,etc.

Both believed in the greater good of their own anti personal freedom crusades to save the world as Karl Marx did. Both believe in using the power of the state to destroy,not preserve human freedom. Both believe that those who disagree need executing.

Both need destruction. Both were enemies of the people of the USA. Both used violence to achieve a political goal,both hate Jews and Christians.So,the comparisons are startling to my view.

Sounds to me like this German here is jealous his Adolf Hitler worshipping progenitors got their arrogant cans kicked by some American troopers. We don't claim to have whipped you German Nazis alone,but we do take lots of pride in knowing our boot was 1 of many up your arrogant tails. It's still there,you Germans are so embarrassing and still arrogant. This is 2006 and you still have foreign troops occupying your putrid state.
quadrat Wrote:strongest military power thanks to superior tactics and technologies.

then why did they lose? :roll: Or are you just joking, quadrant?
Palladin,
doesn't feel like a boot. More like athlete's foot. You know, without Germans, you might have shot the elderly Mr. Sheperd ballistic a month after the Chinese, back in 2004?

KenRi,
it's virtually pointless to discuss WW2 with Americans, what you have been told is rewritten history, custom made. The "isolation" thing for example, implying the peace loving American people were disgusted by death and misery in Europe. Cowardice and pragmatism, you would have had no chance against the German war machine until the Russians broke it. Lost about five million soldiers in the first three months of the Invasion of Russia, and came back. There were battles with more than a Million casualties, one doubts you would have been ready to pay such a price for victory. The Russians are the heros of that war. You were scavengers. If you believe there was much noble or honorable about Americans, that's not what eye-witnesses had to tell.
While the Russians did do a great deal, that doesn't lessen the huge sacrifices that Americans made. We did not lose nearly as many men as they did, but that was in part because of the superior tactics and medicine practices of the Americans. The Germans were shocked by how sloppily the Russians used their own troops in battle - a lot of at least the soldier casualties in Russi were because of those sloppy tactics.

Furthermore, you can't underestimate the enormous strategic benefit of D-day and our advance into Germany. Germany was not 'beaten' by the time of D-day only a few months later they had enough troops and energy and *hope* to launch a major counter-offensive, the Battle of the Bulge.

In fact, D-day was supposed to be a bloodbath of unprecedented proportions. Eisenhower and FDR both expected it to be. It wasn't because of sheer luck and being able to trick the Germans about where the landings would be made, not a demoralized and fatigued German command.
The thing this rocket scientist doesn't factor in is we did not HAVE to fight in Europe to remain free. Russians had to fight or they would have been murdered as Jews were by our German "ALLIES".

We CHOSE to fight in Europe and a wise German should thank God we did or they would have had Joe Stalin following up after Hitler all the way to the Rhine. Of course,so would the entire stinking continent of Europe,so all Europeans should be thankful for we Americans.

Of course Quad wishes Stalin had ruled Europe.
Anon,
the battles of D-day, if I recall correctly, led to about 9,000 allied victims and about 12,000 German ones. You met serious resistance on one of the six(?) landing points only, I believe Omaha.
This battle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kursk resulted in 1,100,000 casualties, amongst them 500,000 Germans or their allies. This is many times more than casualties that occured by your and the English campaign in the West. On the Eastern Front, there were more than ten battles with 500,000 plus victims. It's you who underestimates the vast scale of this conflict. Kursk was the deciding battle of WW2, it destroyed the German ability to act. I believe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WW2 is a good report of WW2. From there are many links to spezific themes.
Ever seen this monstrous thing here? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dora_%28artillery%29. Delivered more punch than even your daisy cutter nowadays.

Palladin,
Actually, Stalin ruled most of Europe. The geographic centre of the continent is in Slovakia. I'm not fascinated by Stalin or communism, not by Hitler, not by the American way of life either. The same inhuman stuff with a different name. A small clique of reckless rulers who exploit the ordinary people. But, yes, you did liberate Europe from an evil greater than you. Considering American acts after WW2 however, including Iraq, I believe the warranty for peace in Europe was by no means America, but the communist bloc.
After the war, Germanies society was designed by the victorious allies in order to avoid more wars by Germans. A Federation with a rather weak central power, an economic system, social market economy, that granted a good life for everybody. All of a sudden, Germans did care no more about world domination, but consumption. It worked. As your 'new deal' did. Unfortunately, these fine lessons of history are about to be forgotten. Get it somehow in your mind, the only solution to avoid conflicts and that ridiculously blown up phenomenon called terrorism, is social fairness.
Its not a handful quad. Like I stated in an earlier thread, there are atleast 1 billion muslims in the world. If only 1% are terrorists that is 10 million islamic terrorists in the world. I believe though we can negotiate with the terrorists by simply quenching their thirst for blood. Lets take every liberal such as you quad who believe they are harmless and hand those liberals over to Al Qaeda. I think that would be enough to satisfy us and them. Would you like to be the first volunteer?
Quadrat
I refer you to the article by Orson Card linked by John L. in US Politics forum.
The idiots have inspired the insipid. We will all now bear the consequences. Good luck. Hope you survive.
Bean
Democrat victory robbed your sleep, didn't it? Rotten luck. :lol: No, I would not be the volunteer and the only value of your question is a rhetoric one anyway. I'd suggest we hand over the hawks in your administration. Warmongers vs Warmongers. Like in the old knight games.
May I remind you the only American victims of terrorism for years have been your troopers in Iraq, but not a single civilian? Actually, those troopers are the victims of American policies. Doesn't look to me as if 10,000,000 terrorists waylay the innocent.
Well, that is the point exactly. Our troops have borne the brunt of terrorism against us there in Iraq and Afghanistan, along with the people of Iraq who have been "terrorized" forever by their own government.

I can only hope we can support the Iraqi men and women of good will there in Iraq as they try to build the first democratic country (or countries plural if neccessary) in the whole Arab world.

Americans of good will support that effort.
Bean
If one good thing can come out of this war, its a democratic Kurdistan, militarily allied with the United States and Israel.

We should realize that fact and start cutting our other losses,
Anonymous24 Wrote:If one good thing can come out of this war, its a democratic Kurdistan, militarily allied with the United States and Israel.

We should realize that fact and start cutting our other losses,

This is the one area where I agree with Biden and others. We should have made at least three autonomous areas, including Kurdistan. They WILL eventually have their own country, like it or not. Failure to recognize this is simply folly.
I know you are much more knowledgeful on the subject than I am John. However I believe Iraqis will come to the realization they have bigger fish to fry than themsevles, outside threats like Iran and Syria will hold them together. Nothing keeps a family together like another family wanting to kill them. I have a twin brother, trust me. Wink1
I still think that there is much to what Ralph Peters stated in Blood Borders. He may have some of the particulars wrong, but overall, he is right on the money, even if the future map is a bit audacious.
You know Iranian support for sunni insurgents killing off semi loyal shiattes could be used to divide these shiattes from the Iranians. The article you presented by uncle orson talks about this divide.
Quad,

Social fairness like licking the as.s of every Muslim male you can identify?

Is that what you Germans are down to after Hitler? I thought this generation didn't feel guilty for your granparents evil(and shouldn't) so why is it you want to claim men like Osama Bin laden are only being evil because they are not receiving a fair shake in life?
KenBean
Quote:Well, that is the point exactly. Our troops have borne the brunt of terrorism against us there in Iraq and Afghanistan, along with the people of Iraq who have been "terrorized" forever by their own government.
I can only hope we can support the Iraqi men and women of good will there in Iraq as they try to build the first democratic country (or countries plural if neccessary) in the whole Arab world.
Americans of good will support that effort.
Iraki men and Women of good will? Who adore America's way of life? I guess, you could summon them to a room the size of a private toilet, they're not a lot. Yeah, they were terrorized by Saddam, but it was an Iraki Saddam (and his secular state was obviously better than anything Allahs warriors want to accomplish). Not one of your puppets, not the by your actions created terrorist and criminals, warlords or religious zealots. There was no civil war with additional guest actors, I mean your troopers. 655,000 Irakis have died by your actions, if I understood it correctly partly by violence and partly by the disorder your war brought upon that country. Collapse of health care, diseases, hunger, desperation and stuff. Hard to find good will in that environment, don't you think so?

Anonymus
Quote:If one good thing can come out of this war, its a democratic Kurdistan, militarily allied with the United States and Israel.
We should realize that fact and start cutting our other losses.)
Dream on, Anon. Your NATO ally Turkey would never accept a travesty like that. Probably neither Germany or any other European country, we have to bad experiences with those Kurds. Remember this guy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdullah_%C3%96calan The Kurdish Bin Laden.
Quad you just don't get it do you? We have not installed a puppet, and one does not occupy a country of twenty six million people with a total force level of !40,000 soldiers.
The Iraquis voted their own government in. Many of them really enjoyed that...for the first time in their history.
You can close your eyes to the hope born in that country, but I know it is a fact.
Bean
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