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Found a jewel of a quote by Hermann Goering,

"Naturally, the common people don't want war, but after all, it's the leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag people along whether it's a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. This is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works in every country."

Anybody here who doubts the USA is the legitimate heir of fascism?
Probably everyone here doubts it,including you. I think we hung Goerring didn't we? We would do Saddam and Osama the same way if they were ours to hang.

I bet the quote is manufactured anyway by some pacifist puss.y or Marxist like you using Hitler's crew as a red herring for pr purposes. There is a famous Hitler quote about gun control conservatives use,but it's a canard as well.
Palladin Wrote:Probably everyone here doubts it,including you. I think we hung Goerring didn't we? We would do Saddam and Osama the same way if they were ours to hang.

I bet the quote is manufactured anyway by some pacifist puss.y or Marxist like you using Hitler's crew as a red herring for pr purposes. There is a famous Hitler quote about gun control conservatives use,but it's a canard as well.

He had someone slip him some cynide, whereupon he committed suicide, after it became aparant that he really WAS going to swing for his past.

And whether or not he stated it, is it certain that "Q" is attempting to use misdirection and intellectual dishonesty here. While I will agree that the US has been slowly adding fascist laws and actions, it is not yet a fascist state. Not yet anyway.

The difference between "Q" and myself, is that of "glee" vs "concern".
Palladin Wrote:Probably everyone here doubts it,including you. I think we hung Goerring didn't we? We would do Saddam and Osama the same way if they were ours to hang.

I bet the quote is manufactured anyway by some pacifist puss.y or Marxist like you

The quote is genuine. Came from the Nuremberg trials.
Snopes on Goering.

Goering was a fairly smart man --- when off morphine -- and in Nuremberg he was in a good shape.

Unfortunately, Quadrat is no Goering, and managed to miss what Goering actually said.

Goering merely stated the way the world works. Rule by creation of fear is the universal way, and, incidentally, very typical for Europe. It existed for centuries. Everyone followed it. It is insane to think that this universal approach originated with Goering, Goering only observed it, and he was not the only one to observe the obvious either.

And from this our Q-friend jumps into
Quote:Anybody here who doubts the USA is the legitimate heir of fascism?

Moronic. Q, Goering would not invite you to his table.
John,
Quote:And whether or not he stated it, is it certain that "Q" is attempting to use misdirection and intellectual dishonesty here. While I will agree that the US has been slowly adding fascist laws and actions, it is not yet a fascist state. Not yet anyway. The difference between "Q" and myself, is that of "glee" vs "concern".
:lol: I'm not the only one who is, aren't I? "Concern". Hope, I can stop laughing before christmas. On the inside of your nation you are not fascist except for that psychotic belief of superiority, true. However, your foreign policies are completely fascist. Force, terror, domination, genocide. (May I use the word regarding 650.000 victims of your invasion of Irak? In Bosnia, if I remember right, there were 15,000 genocide victims and that word was used plentyfully.)

mv,
Quote:Goering merely stated the way the world works. Rule by creation of fear is the universal way, and, incidentally, very typical for Europe. It existed for centuries. Everyone followed it. It is insane to think that this universal approach originated with Goering, Goering only observed it, and he was not the only one to observe the obvious either.
You possess amazing insights, my respect to you. Could you give me a reference that you used that insight for a good purpose and fought Bush's fascist methods to drag American citizens in a war of conquest?
Goering's quote is well stated, but is a truism.

The leadership of a country (including democracies, as Goering first mentioned) just has to whip the public into a frenzy: "You're about to be invaded by crazed pagans who will rape your women and kill your babies!! Even worse, they will break your shop windows and soil your merchandise!!"

Regardless of what apparently rational thought went into using the atomic bombs, Truman had himself and the American people insanely brainwashed about the Japanese, who had already been firebombed.

Then it was the God-damned, Godless Communists. Including Ho Chi Minh and Castro, who were given few if any viable alternatives to oppose regimes supported by the Western powers.

And now, it's terrorism as the bogeyman who will rape your women and soil your merchandise. It's so simple, it's too simplistic. You have just seen the US Congress hand a blank check to the Chief Executive to put you in prison without habeas corpus, without the right to face your accuser or see the evidence against you, without the right to choose a lawyer, or communicate with anybody. You're in deep trouble, and you don't care, if you faithfully and religiously believe that George W. Bush will save you like a Savior from the anti-Christ, the fanatic Muslims. Welcome to the insane asylum.
Quote:You're in deep trouble, and you don't care, if you faithfully and religiously believe that George W. Bush will save you like a Savior from the anti-Christ, the fanatic Muslims.

Fit, for me the thought process goes more along the lines of I need to be saved from guys like you and quadrat, with your constant chants that there is no danger in the world except that which emanates from America.

-S
quadrat Wrote:...However, your foreign policies are completely fascist. Force, terror, domination, genocide. (May I use the word regarding 650.000 victims of your invasion of Irak? In Bosnia, if I remember right, there were 15,000 genocide victims and that word was used plentyfully.)...
First of all, let's do a little math. I hope my math skills are still good enough, since it has been years since I was in college, let alone HS math:

(1) March 20, 2003 to October 12, 2006 (the approx. date on which the 650,000 dead report came out) = approx. 3 years, 6 months, & 22 days (or 1095 days + 180 days + 22 days = approx. 1297 days)

(2) 650,000 Iraqis supposedly killed since March 20, 2003 divided by approx. 1297 days = 501.15 KILLED PER DAY ON AVERAGE

Now with all the carnage wrought recently by the sectarian violence, much of which is sponsored/instigated by Iran and its recent rising influence in Iraq, there may have been some days on which the number DID meet or come close to surpassing 500 deaths in a single day. However, for 500+ to be the AVERAGE, this means there would have to be a slew of days where this 500-killed-mark would have to be greatly in excess of 500 to make up for the days since the invasion on which the number fell far short of 500, which I think are much more numerous.

Therefore, I contend that this 650,000 figure is erroneous, and nothing more than an attempt by a politically driven, anti-US media or organization to deceive the people of the world for political purposes, most likely anti-war/"humanitarian" and/or anti-US/anti-Bush. I have yet to see any credible media outlet report this as anything other than an unsubstantiated claim by some group or other media outlet.

And even if the total number of dead Iraqis is anywhere close to 650,000, I am sure that most of the innocent civilians (non-combatants) killed in this "genocide" in Iraq since the invasion have been killed by the terrorists or sectarian violence rather than US military action. So for you to even use the word "genocide" in connection with US foreign policy is absurd and a furtherance of an outright lie.
Fit2BThaied Wrote:...Regardless of what apparently rational thought went into using the atomic bombs, Truman had himself and the American people insanely brainwashed about the Japanese, who had already been firebombed.

Then it was the God-damned, Godless Communists. Including Ho Chi Minh and Castro, who were given few if any viable alternatives to oppose regimes supported by the Western powers.

And now, it's terrorism as the bogeyman who will rape your women and soil your merchandise. It's so simple, it's too simplistic. You have just seen the US Congress hand a blank check to the Chief Executive to put you in prison without habeas corpus, without the right to face your accuser or see the evidence against you, without the right to choose a lawyer, or communicate with anybody. You're in deep trouble, and you don't care, if you faithfully and religiously believe that George W. Bush will save you like a Savior from the anti-Christ, the fanatic Muslims. Welcome to the insane asylum.
There's a big difference between the Vietnamese and the Castro Cubans and the danger we now face...neither the Vietnamese communists nor the Castro Cubans had the religion-based fanaticism driving their desires to attack the US if we basically left them alone. The Radical Muslims believe their god is demanding they defeat the evil US. Apples to oranges.

And while we firebombed the Japs a great deal before we nuked them, the Japanese govt was still not ready to quit fighting. And it STILL took them losing 2 entire cities before they finally agreed to surrender.

So it wasnt like our admitted dehumanizing --- i.e. our being "insanely brainwashed" --- of the Jap enemy in WW2 was that off-base. They brainwashed their fighters almost to the same fanatical point of the enemy we are now facing. Remember the Kamikazes and the fact that they believed their leader was a kind of religious figure or even a kind of man-god?

And they also brainwashed their soldiers to fight to the death and that surrender was cowardly and a betrayal of the homeland and their leader. Ask any US Marine who saw combat on Iwo Jima what a hell on earth that battle was, and if the "insane brainwashing" we did to our troops and civilians was out of line! This "brainwashing" was at least somewhat accurate and necessary to steel the nation and our soldiers to achieve victory over the ruthless enemies from Japan.

And where are all these abuses of US citizens' habeas corpus to which you are referring? And if you are talking about non-citizens terrorists we capture, sorry, but they arent covered by our Constitution. Handling foreign terrorists as criminal cases will GUARANTEE that the US loses this War Against Radical Islam...mark my word. You saw what a bunch of crap and what a circus the Moussaoui (sp?) trial ended up being, didnt you? Imagine that TIMES A THOUSAND, if we end up trying in civilian courts under Constitutional rules every terrorist we have captured and will capture in the near future! We didnt try the Japanese and German POWs that way, and they werent NEARLY as dangerous or inhuman as our radical muslim "friends" are.

And I actually dont trust Bush any more to protect the US as it should be protected...but only because he isnt going after the bad guys nearly brutal or aggressive enough, in Iraq or in Afghanistan/Pakistan. He started out good right after 9/11...but since then he has allowed our military leaders to not employ our forces and weapons in near a brutal enough manner against our enemies. We need to hunt them down and kill them 24/7/365, RELENTLESSLY!

If we had been more aggressive in numbers and action in Iraq, for instance, it wouldnt be the mess it now is.
Thai,

You side against America everytime you post when the debate turns to our current Islamic fascist foes.

I agree with S&S,we have a right and obligation to protect ourselves from evil people and it's unfortunate to say,but you always oppose us and are as dangerous as some of them to the freedom and safety of Christians,Jews and Americans globally.

I daresay every Islamic radical on earth would agree wholeheartedly with your sentiments. And that doesn't even make you stop and think 1 millisecond.

This is how you've consistently presented yourself on this board when ever we discuss America and Islamic terrorism,IMO,as a "useful idiot" for them on the same manner as George Bernard Shaw did for Joseph Stalin.

While the enemy were massacring millions of their own folks,Shaw sidled right up to them and told us how fascist and evil WE WERE. Sounds like you today.

http//www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=5969
OOH, she is perhaps hated more than Bat Ye'or, don't you know.

Well,....maybe not, but she is running a close second. Wink1 Bat Ye'or is hated so much, because she is soft spoken, and is not confrontational. Her facts speak for themself. Of course, so does Alyssa Lappen's as well. Wink1

Anyway nice little article Patrick. I have it bookmarked.
clh
Quote:...(Bush) has allowed our military leaders to not employ our forces and weapons in near a brutal enough manner against our enemies. We need to hunt them down and kill them 24/7/365, RELENTLESSLY! If we had been more aggressive in numbers and action in Iraq, for instance, it wouldnt be the mess it now is.

What did I say? USA = fascism. Q.E.D. :lol:

You see, terrorist characters must be fought relentlessly, no matter what idol they worship. I would not suggest killing you, a fine mental institution will do.
quadrat Wrote:clh
Quote:...(Bush) has allowed our military leaders to not employ our forces and weapons in near a brutal enough manner against our enemies. We need to hunt them down and kill them 24/7/365, RELENTLESSLY! If we had been more aggressive in numbers and action in Iraq, for instance, it wouldnt be the mess it now is.

What did I say? USA = fascism. Q.E.D. :lol:

You see, terrorist characters must be fought relentlessly, no matter what idol they worship. I would not suggest killing you, a fine mental institution will do.
It is not fascist to desire the utter destruction of an enemy that has vowed to destroy you and your country, as are many of those we are fighting in Iraq.

You are revealing your lack of intelligence and judgment. To call me a terrorist or a supporter of same, or imply that US is fascistic in any way is yet another lie. But then, you demonstrate your idiocy by what you apparently consider as terroristic the US action in Iraq.

Was the US also facist in its WWII military action? This current war is only different in that the enemy originates from a radical religious dogma rather than imperialistic and genocidal Naziism or the expansionist goals of Japan. And this fact causes the more ignorant --- or politically biased --- among us to not recognize that the danger of Radical Islam greater and more insidious in the long run than Nazi Germany of the empire of Japan ever hoped to be. Sound like anyone you know? LoL

Considering that you seem to think the US is as bad as or worse than the real terrorist enemy of mankind that the US is fighting, I am honored by your derision and would be rather alarmed if you agreed with me!

BTW, the only "idol" I worship is the security and sovereignty of the US and the safety of our people. I am neither a rah-rah Bush "worshipper", nor am I religious.
I actually disagree with Goering in that I think sometimes, especially in this modern day-and-age when people can be shielded from the reality of war, the people very much *do* want war. And often for irrational, emotional reasons.

In this country, I can still remember the almost pep rally like atmosphere in the buildup to the war with Iraq. The truth is Bush didn't really ahve to much dragging - people were already in a mood after 9/11 to kick Arab butt.
Anon,

It's always been true in every society that people are prepared for war. They always rush in,learn better later,that always occurs.

Not just with us.

This bs that leaders have to convince people is inaccurate historically. Anytime a group of people feel threatened,they generally are prepared to fight first.

As an example,it is my estimation that in 1991,90% of the people supported the Gulf War. It was of no consequence that the elder Bush admin. had some war pr. Most folks in 2003 felt that Hussein should be offed with or without pr.

Most STILL think so,but most aren't willing to pay the price of war,so when it isn't easy,they get scared like pus.sies and want the war over real quick. I have a neighbor,a nice guy who has asked my son to help de-recruit his son who is interested in joining the Army.

These guys dying in combat be it Afghanistan,Iraq or anywhere else are always someone else's kid,if a war gets around to taking the tiny most brave among us,sudden;y it was a mistake,it is immoral,etc.

Makes me wonder how we ever won a single contest so far.
clh,
I thought you were killing a few Muslims on your playstation, but actually, a few more pearls of wisdom. No, USA was not so much fascist in WW2 (though they surely had other things in mind than to liberate tortured people from the Nazis). WW2 is some time ago. Japan has changed since then. Germany has. So have the USA.
You in your naivete might believe there is something like a "clash of cultures" or "war on terror". There is not (apart from that illusion you follow). The western world has millions of troopers and trillions of defence budgets. The "terrorists", a handful fighters and a budget of a few millions. T-Rex vs cockroach. So totally absurd even you should recognize. It's not about winning a war. It's not about spreading democracy. It's not about killing Muslims, whether there die a few or many, your leaders and theirs see that with complete indifference. The same goes for your soldiers and civilists, collateral damage, expendable. What's important is the amount of bombs and missiles used, that directs tax payers money into the pockets of the owners of, say, Lockheed. Important are the contracts Haliburton wins in Irak. Money is important. Point.
Besides, say goodby to another illusion of yours. There is no front with you and Bush on one side and Muslims on the other. Your value for Bush and the capital is to be a taxpayer, a subject to exploit and, if necessary, to sacrifice yourself for them. Point.
Haliburtons owners and Bush have more in common with a Muslim Saudi oil prince or an Iraki millionaire than with you. Sorry. Don't blame the messenger.
It needs pointing out here that Quad sees the evil anti Jewish arrogance and mass murder of Germany and her false reasons for starting her wars with her neighbors are equivalent to the USA reacting to repeated attacks by extremist Sunni Muslims.

That ought to enlighten everyone about what/who is informing Quad and anyone else who has such evil hearts.

Hinthe has pointy red ears and a tail in caricatures.
quadrat Wrote:clh,
I thought you were killing a few Muslims on your playstation, but actually, a few more pearls of wisdom. No, USA was not so much fascist in WW2 (though they surely had other things in mind than to liberate tortured people from the Nazis). WW2 is some time ago. Japan has changed since then. Germany has. So have the USA.
You in your naivete might believe there is something like a "clash of cultures" or "war on terror". There is not (apart from that illusion you follow). The western world has millions of troopers and trillions of defence budgets. The "terrorists", a handful fighters and a budget of a few millions. T-Rex vs cockroach. So totally absurd even you should recognize. It's not about winning a war. It's not about spreading democracy. It's not about killing Muslims, whether there die a few or many, your leaders and theirs see that with complete indifference. The same goes for your soldiers and civilists, collateral damage, expendable. What's important is the amount of bombs and missiles used, that directs tax payers money into the pockets of the owners of, say, Lockheed. Important are the contracts Haliburton wins in Irak. Money is important. Point.
Besides, say goodby to another illusion of yours. There is no front with you and Bush on one side and Muslims on the other. Your value for Bush and the capital is to be a taxpayer, a subject to exploit and, if necessary, to sacrifice yourself for them. Point.
Haliburtons owners and Bush have more in common with a Muslim Saudi oil prince or an Iraki millionaire than with you. Sorry. Don't blame the messenger.
Oh, the old "military-industrial complex" bugaboo, eh? LoL At least you didnt say it was "blood for oil". But you might also believe that fallacy too.

You are not nearly as savvy and well-informed as you like to think you are. You do seem to be rather intelligent, but this is countered by your ignorance of the world in which we live and the danger Radical ISlam poses to ALL of us --- even you in Thailand, wasn't it?

True, the US is more powerful than the radical islamists when measured conventionally. But look at the huge impact 19 raving lunatics can have on the world on one Tuesday morning in 2001. And if they can gain access of a nuke or other horrific weapon, be it bio or chemical? They could kill tens of thousands, if not a million or more in one fell swoop.

And with this in mind, what about the political blackmail potential from Radical Islam? They already turned one election in their favor just by conventionally bombing trains in Spain. The original Spanish president, who was a great ally of the US in Iraq, was headed for a pretty certain re-election...until the bombing just weeks before the election. Now the current president of Spain, who almost immediately upon taking office pulled Spain's troops out of Iraq, can be seen wearing a Palestinian-style Islamic head-scarf occasionally in public! And I dont think he is Islamic at all.

You say I am naive? Rather, you are terribly naive about radical Islam. What you fail to understand is that the root desire of the overwhelming majority of all the violent muslims, even those in Iraq, is that they want to see Islam be THE dominant political force and law in the world...or would at least rather see Islam be the dominant force than the US be the superpower we still (barely) are.

Time will tell which one of us is right here. But I am fairly certain many of you non-chicken-little types will end up saying to us "chicken littles", you guys were right...'the sky WAS falling'! That is, Radical Islam WAS as serious a threat to the entire planet as we said it was all along, and Bush and the US were right to try to take it on militarily, even though various mistakes and miscalculations in the execution of the war in Iraq and elsewhere were made.
clh,

Anytime you have 1.2 billion humans following your ideology,your potential for good or bad is awesome. I submit Mohammad's desires were not good. They were no different than any 7th century Arab warlord's,except he succeeded in associating his theft and murder campaign with the aura of the intentionality of the creator.

It's the MOST dangerous challenge in human history for all non Muslims,far more dangerous than any other "ISM".

Back around 1803 America had her first encounter with these wolves,called the barbary pirates. They were common thieves,but they believed God desired them to thieve from the non pure infidels,that's exactly what they told our ambassador,theft was their right.

Who is so stupid they willfully ignore such mentality?