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Midnight here in Thailand, and perhaps the coup is already over. At this point, most of the lines are down, but it appears the army under General Sonthi has overtaken the Thaksin government, while Thaksin was preparing to speak to the United Nations in New York City.

We're advised to stay indoors tomorrow.

Uhhm, while anti-government coups are usually bad things, this may not be bad at all. Thaksin deserved to lose power.

More at the top of the hour....
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/09...index.html
Quote:According to officials at the Thai mission at the United Nations, Thaksin has moved up his speech to the General Assembly to Tuesday night and will return to Bangkok after his address.

He had been scheduled to address the assembly on Wednesday.

It seems as though the Prime Minister is not in any particular hurry to return home. I guess he's not sure who will be on the tarmac welcoming him home.

-S
Yes, around 1 am Thai time, it was reported that the former PM will not come back just yet.

It appears the armed forces have taken over, ousted the "caretaker" government that Shinawatra headed. Also, that the coup has suspended or cancelled all the government, including the constitution, all courts, etc.

It also appears the coup has been bloodless so far. Pray for peace, and for democracy, more democracy than we had under Thaksin Shinawatra.

Again, while a large number of civilians wanted Thaksin out one way or the other, it is the military that has seized power.
And it was probably done all in the name of the King, right?
John,

The military commander stated the King is the head of state.

Thai,

I take issue with your conclusions here. I know zip about Thaksin,but he isn't the issue here,it simply is not our right to support removal of human authorities outside the legal structures.
Palladin Wrote:it simply is not our right to support removal of human authorities outside the legal structures.
I'm curious about this, since you supported regime change in Iraq. In my view, whatever the UN had to say about it is legally irrelavent, because legitmate laws have to come from a democracy. It might be useful for the court of public opinion, and it would be a good idea to try to make the UN more of a democracy, but for the present moment it amounts to no more than public relations.
b5d, Iraq invaded Kuwait inciting the first Gulf war. When Saddam was defeated, he signed a Peace agreement, in which he promised to adhere to very specific actions, which he then willfully violated. The rule of International Law is exactly the basis for what then ocurred.
How can the military commander state the King is the head of state? I thought the King was not Muslim, yet the General is.

Was this a non-Muslim takeover?
There are quite a few American expats in Thailand, tho many of them hate the United States so I find this as highly entertaining. I wonder if "those" who speak so hatefully of the US and Western civ in general will be crying for intervention, lol. For those folk I simply refer you to your non interventionist rantings. Hopefully the good folk from this board survive the socialist upheavels and the other anti American expats on here will now have time to rethink.


the King of Thailand is just as much a joke as the PM. But I find fits comments telling of his true political thoughts. A coup is a good thing? Psycho man, psycho...
Now it's 10 AM in Thailand, Wednesday, and the commanding general (who is a Muslim, loyal to the monarchy) has declared that they have dissolved the corrupt rule of the prime minister, the houses of congress, the constitution that permitted a corrupt party to gain so much power, and the courts. That's very radical, but oddly enough, all indications are that this was a bloodless coup, accomplished by show of military power.

It appears the coup is an accomplished deed. It appears that parties closest to the king approved of the coup. It's hardly the first time it's been done like this.

As a Christian pacifist who understands that sometimes (even in dictatorships that have elections and a shell of a democracy), government does bad things, I'm sorry that the corrupt billionaire dictator (Thaksin Shinawatra, from Chiang Mai area) wouldn't allow the democratic processes to work. He unduly influenced elections (right wing ballot box corruption, pure and simple, criminally). He influenced the election courts and other high courts, in criminal fashion. He got the tax laws, and the laws about foreign ownership of important businesses, changed so that he could sell his telecom business to Singapore and pay no tax at all.

To those democrats who worship democracy, you might want to recall the words of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., to the effect that Adolf Hitler and the leaders of the Third Reich never broke one law of Germany. It was legal, in Germany, to do the Holocaust and defend the greater Fatherland. Past presidents of Mexico were democrats, but the system was called "The Perfect Dictatorship."

Sometimes, a so-called democracy is evil. Thailand's was. The army, whose primary loyalty is to the king, feels it is 'saving' Thailand by overthrowing a corrupt government which, in their militaristic opinion, could not be changed by democratic means. Also to their militaristic minds, the completely non-violent protestors who were going to take to the streets today, might have been killed by Thaksin's goons.

Am I happy that the army took over a corrupt government? Not exactly. I'm relieved the chief criminal, Thaksin, is out of office. I'm relieved that so far, the coup has been bloodless.

Oh yes, I'm also relieved that the exchange rate, after being at an 8 year low, is going back to where I'll get more baht per dollar.

If you are really an historian of democratic republics, you'll probably find a dozen that were corrupt beyond imagination, which wouldn't listen to the people. They broke countless laws with impunity. And some of those corrupt democracies, like in the Philipines, fell because the nonviolent protestors were heard, loudly and clearly.

But if you worship democracy more than religion, you probably think that the fall of a corrupt democracy was evil. Yet, if you believed in regime change in Iraq, you believe in the violent overthrow of duly constituted national leaderships, so what's your complaint?

Oh, and so far today, I've heard no rumour or mention of this being an Islamic plot to overthrow a Buddhist country. I'm sure some of you fine anti-Islamists are already thinking of that. General Sonthi, however, only commands the army (not the other armed forces), and gives no appearance that he's doing this for Allah. Although he may feel that Allah doesn't disapprove, just as the Christians on this forum think that Jesus is all in favor of warfare that knowingly causes collateral damage.
In the long run, all this overthrowing of governments by the military is a destructive thing. It only leads to more overthrow and corruption. As with the Chilean Allende regime, the ballot box would have worked best. The next election would have definately toppled Allende, and a socialist/Marxist friendly government would have passed into oblivion. This thing in Thailand is going to continue happening, until the military finally decides to say Enough!
Quote:the King of Thailand is just as much a joke as the PM. But I find fits comments telling of his true political thoughts. A coup is a good thing? Psycho man, psycho...
The king unites that nation divided along many ethnic lines that could burst open every minute. He is the ethical authority in a country with a razor-thin veneer of civilization. In 60 years on the throne he's seen a lot of coups but never one as justified as this one. Thaksin is a corrupt man, carried to power by a wave of rassism stirred by himself. A divider.
Quote:Was this a non-Muslim takeover?
Yes. There are more things between earth and sky than Muslim terrorists.
WmLambert Wrote:Was this a non-Muslim takeover?
Indeed Gen Sonthi is a Muslim and someone who has been trying to address the problems of Southern Thailand with a little more thought than Thaksin. He recently sought to open a dialogue with PULO the main separatist group and is keen to implement the recommendations made by the National Reconciliation Commission.
Monsieur Le Tonk Wrote:
WmLambert Wrote:Was this a non-Muslim takeover?
Indeed Gen Sonthi is a Muslim and someone who has been trying to address the problems of Southern Thailand with a little more thought than Thaksin. He recently sought to open a dialogue with PULO the main separatist group and is keen to implement the recommendations made by the National Reconciliation Commission.

Oh My Gosh! Welcome back Pepe. Don't tell me that you miss me?
First, to address fit2BThaied, Democracies are often terrible examples of governance. Whether it is mob rule, where a plurality votes themselves wealth at the expense of others, or a limited Democracy where the Sovereign state assumes unchecked power - the ballot box often controls the outrages and pulls the government back in line. You stated several times that the overthrown government had rigged elections. This exception to the ballot process lends some credence to an overthrow - but who makes the charges of rigged elections? The party that lost the last election? An opposition media?

In the U.S., the Democrat party is historically linked with rigging elections. Independent research documented the abuses - but the Democrat Party also makes almost all the charges of such abuse - but invariably charges its opponents as the culprits instead of admitting their own deviousness. Over the years, even Democrats have come to admit JFK won the presidency with rigged votes. Mayor Daley delivering the cemetary votes is common knowledge. It would not be a good outcome of this coup to find that General Sonthi was guilty of rigging the election, but didn't succeed in getting enough votes to change the result, and then launched the coup as his next strategy. Time will tell, but in the meantime, the new government will carry a taint and the possibility of a counter-coup until honest elections are held. If Thaksin Shinawatra is re-elected, will there be another coup?

Secondly, in response to quadrat, a king is still a man who will in turn be succeeded by another man who may not have the same qualities. You asserted that Thaksin stirred racism to gain power, and is a corrupt divider. I assume that his corruption is widely known for it to be true - and if so, he would be voted out in time, unless he assumed powers not in their constitution which would validate a coup to restore the Democracy. Are there specific charges leveled by Sonthi to document the coup? If not, then Thaksin should return to power immediately.

Since the coup is an accomplished fact, there is probably no going back, but if Thaksin is as corrupt as charged, then the people should have their day in court against him. I am not happy at the ease with which political manipulators like Arafat are able to acquire billions of dollars of stolen wealth, and then no action is taken to return that money back to the people.
The coup is an accomplished fact. The generals will be in charge until constitutional democracy (with a beatific monarch) is restored.

Either the just-killed constitution was a disaster without checks and balances, or the great thief Thaksin managed to run roughshod over it so quickly that the opposition didn't react quickly enough.

And yes, William, regardless of how it was in countries A, B, and C, this set of elections were clearly bought and sold by the right wing, conservative, business wing, much like it happens in many other developing countries. And that buying of votes was about the only thing "transparent" in Thai government, other than hired thugs roughing up non-violent protestors about a month ago.

The constitutions of Denmark, USA, or Canada don't apply to Thailand. The attitudes or cultural styles of Swedes, Russians, Botswanians, Nicas, et al., don't apply to Thai people. Different behavior, history, preferences, in ways that are barely understandable by those of us born and bred in the West. To assume otherwise is naive or ethnocentric, just plain erroneous.

Illustrative anecdote: when the coup started, my Thai partner went to sleep. When he awoke a few hours later and I told him that Thailand had no prime minister, government, constitution or national court system, he said in Thai, "No problem; doesn't matter." It's happened almost twenty times during this king's benevolent reign. Except for today being a holiday, tomorrow life will go on.

You libertarians will appreciate that Thailand hasn't had a national congress since Thaksin dissolved it in early March, and the country has rocked along BETTER without the politicians being able to legislate. And it may be one more year.

Maybe the USA doesn't need a Congress for two years. :lol:
John L Wrote:
Monsieur Le Tonk Wrote:
WmLambert Wrote:Was this a non-Muslim takeover?
Indeed Gen Sonthi is a Muslim and someone who has been trying to address the problems of Southern Thailand with a little more thought than Thaksin. He recently sought to open a dialogue with PULO the main separatist group and is keen to implement the recommendations made by the National Reconciliation Commission.

Oh My Gosh! Welcome back Pepe. Don't tell me that you miss my me?
Miss you? But of course John S2
Monsieur Le Tonk Wrote:
John L Wrote:
Monsieur Le Tonk Wrote:
WmLambert Wrote:Was this a non-Muslim takeover?
Indeed Gen Sonthi is a Muslim and someone who has been trying to address the problems of Southern Thailand with a little more thought than Thaksin. He recently sought to open a dialogue with PULO the main separatist group and is keen to implement the recommendations made by the National Reconciliation Commission.

Oh My Gosh! Welcome back Pepe. Don't tell me that you miss my me?
Miss you? But of course John S2

Well, in order to get the full dose of my witt and wisdom, you will have to come here. I am through with the Bear Pit.

BTY, I did stop by momentarily a couple of times, and I note that traffic is greater here than there. Interesting, considering that it has almost twice the registered members.

Anyway, good to see you here. We need more intelligent opposites. Only Fit' is a fitting opponent. It gets boring not having anyone with which to intellectually spar. S6
This is a power grab realted to funds from the psunami.

Violent Muslim Separatists support the coup and so does the King. And people actually take thailand seriously?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...01310.html

Quote:...
"It is the right thing that the military has taken power," said Lukman B. Lima, an exiled leader in one of several groups fighting the central government for a separate Muslim state. "We hope that the political (situation) can be resolved."
...
Marbleheader Wrote:This is a power grab realted to funds from the psunami.

Violent Muslim Separatists support the coup and so does the King. And people actually take thailand seriously?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...01310.html

Quote:...
"It is the right thing that the military has taken power," said Lukman B. Lima, an exiled leader in one of several groups fighting the central government for a separate Muslim state. "We hope that the political (situation) can be resolved."
...
Oh my, 50 years ago, Marbleheader, you would have seen a Commie behind every bush. Now you even see a terrorist Muslim behind every george bush....

I didn't read the entire Washington Post article, because it appears to be the same old news we've gotten from the MSM for two days now. And nowhere - repeat, NOWHERE - has there been news of anything related to tsunami relief funds. Nowhere has anybody suggested this was part of some diabolical, devilish, God-condemned Muslim terrorist plot.

The moderate Muslims in the southern provinces, while supporting the complaints of whomever is doing this terrorist killing in the southern provinces of Thailand, do not agree with the methods used by these southern Thai Muslim terrorists.

General Sonthi (also spelled Sondhi, not to be confused with a prominent Thai opponent of Thaksin) is first a Thai, then an army general loyal to the monarchy, and thirdly a Muslim. In fact, like many professing Christians, he puts his nationalism above his religion.
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