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Full Version: Red Hot Chili Peppers and cold room "torture"
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A former US military person (a female who was, I think, a USAF Captain) who now belongs to Human Rights Watch was on The O'Reilly Factor on FNC last night. On the show, she deemed the loud playing of Red Hot Chili Pepper's music to a detainee being held in a "frigid" room as being "torture" that should not ever be used by the US, even in an attempt to get information which could save lives.

Huh? Are these (bleeding-heart) humanitarian groups who have complained so loudly about the "torture" the US has used (often succesfully) complaining as loudly about our enemy REALLY torturing our soldiers and civilians? Often involving slow deaths during which body parts are removed, sometimes ending up with a beheading? They should be complaining much louder about these instances! Our soldiers and civilians would look forward to the kind of "torture" the US has employed to get info, because it seldom ends up in maiming, let alone a grisly death!

If we bow to morons like the person who was on O'Reilly last night, we might as well bring all our troops home now, line all our forces up on our borders, kick out all the people who we suspect as wanting to do harm to us, and keep all suspicious newcomers out of the US forever. But even if we did this, we would still eventually get nuked by a rogue group or nation.

WE HAVE TO HAVE MEANS TO GET VITAL INFO ABOUT THREATS, even when these means might cause the subject a little discomfort, or even real physical harm or even death in rare, extreme situations. To do otherwise and expect us to be relatively safe and secure and to prevail in this World War Against Radical Islam is beyond stupidly suicidal.
That's why the Vince Flynn novels are so popular. Mitch Rapp is the embodiment of sane and rational conduct.
WM. twisted
WmLambert Wrote:That's why the Vince Flynn novels are so popular. Mitch Rapp is the embodiment of sane and rational conduct.

Are they good novels? Also, who is the author, who Rush loves to read so much?
I think Rush likes Tom Clancy, Vince Flynn, and others. Laura Ingraham interviewed Vince Flynn on her program. I think you'll like him every much as you do Michael Z. Williamson and his SF novel, Freehold which I read. Also, you'll appreciate Williamson's Scope of Justice, a contemporary Army sniper novel.

Flynn's hero, Mitch Rapp is the character most people say 24 is based upon. Mitch captures four Terrorists in Pakistan, ties them up and immediately shoots the leader in the head, realizing he is a martyr-type who would not break in the time-limits Rapp has and could stiffen the resolve of the other three flunkies if given the chance. Within five minutes Rapp had info that prevented a nuclear attack ready to explode within minutes in an American harbor. Try to read his books in order if you can.
WmLambert Wrote:I think Rush likes Tom Clancy, Vince Flynn, and others. Laura Ingraham interviewed Vince Flynn on her program. I think you'll like him every much as you do Michael Z. Williamson and his SF novel, Freehold which I read. Also, you'll appreciate Williamson's Scope of Justice, a contemporary Army sniper novel.

Flynn's hero, Mitch Rapp is the character most people say 24 is based upon. Mitch captures four Terrorists in Pakistan, ties them up and immediately shoots the leader in the head, realizing he is a martyr-type who would not break in the time-limits Rapp has and could stiffen the resolve of the other three flunkies if given the chance. Within five minutes Rapp had info that prevented a nuclear attack ready to explode within minutes in an American harbor. Try to read his books in order if you can.

Incidentially, have you had the chance to read "The Weapon" yet? Remember the group that our "Freehold" heroine gave professional Q&As to, on her new job as Earth expert? That was the group, who are the subject of that novel.

Damn! My kind of guy! Know what needs to be done, and make a command decision quickly, and then carry it out. And you are correct about Williamson. I really liked Freehold, and he is the consumate Libertarian/Classic Liberal sort of fellow. naturally I would love to live on a Freehold any day. I'll check out his other novels.
OH my Lord...now you guys have punched my button lol

"Farnhams Freehold" is one of the best books ever written.
(Heinlien of course).
Bean
KenBean Wrote:OH my Lord...now you guys have punched my button :lol:

"Farnhams Freehold" is one of the best books ever written.
(Heinlien of course).
Bean

Oh, my gosh Ken, we were talking about another novel. He is a Heinlein follower and is a consumate Libertarian/Classic Liberal, as was Heinlein. It is a long novel, but you can pick it up for less than $2 used, Plus S/H from Amazon.

The sequel is The Weapon.
Didn't George H. W. Bush's military get Manuel Noriega out of the Vatican Embassy in Panama by playing rap music or rock music day and night, really loud?

More on point, the fact that your enemy beheads your friends, or tortures them by removing body parts slowly, is no excuse for a rush to the lowest common denominator of indecency, for people who consider yourself decent, holding the higher moral ground, etc.

Isn't there strong professional evidence, within military and intelligence communities, that torture often fails and produces false information?

I admit, though, that listening to rap music 24/7 might make me crazy. But Guns'n'Roses, probably not. S1
Fit2BThaied Wrote:Didn't George H. W. Bush's military get Manuel Noriega out of the Vatican Embassy in Panama by playing rap music or rock music day and night, really loud?

More on point, the fact that your enemy beheads your friends, or tortures them by removing body parts slowly, is no excuse for a rush to the lowest common denominator of indecency, for people who consider yourself decent, holding the higher moral ground, etc.

Isn't there strong professional evidence, within military and intelligence communities, that torture often fails and produces false information?

I admit, though, that listening to rap music 24/7 might make me crazy. But Guns'n'Roses, probably not. S1
Yes, I think you are right about Noriega.

Using "coercive interrogation" (what I would consider to be "mild torture", a form that has little or no lasting impact on the subject) is not a "rush to the lowest common denominator of indecency", at least not in the eyes of rational people who understand what we are up against and who want to previal against the enemy that is Radical Islam. And according to multiple US interrogators (CIA and military) and other current and former individuals "in the know" who have been interviewed on the subject, such tactics HAVE yielded valuable and (later-proven-as) accurate info from subjects. Compared to this, about the only ones who say "mild torture" doesnt work have a political axe to grind and/or are from suspect groups like the ACLU and Amnesty Intl and Human Rights Watch.

And while I am a very decent person, even though I might not be so according to prevailing religious beliefs (I dont believe in a god), I dont think it in any way "immoral" to use means, even those that many might think are beyond mere "coercive interrogation", to help us defeat the enemy we are facing. Sometimes the instinct to survive as a people or a nation can and should supercede always doing what we would normally consider "moral" or "decent".

Yeah, Fit, most rap music I too find annoying at best, even at lower decibels. Wink1 And Guns'n'Roses wouldnt be a bad selection at all! But 'N Sync or Backstreet Boys? ARGH! S6
Forget Noriega, Look at the church attack at Waco against David Koresh and the Dravidians. Before those children were burned to death they were tortured day and night with loud heavy metal rock music.
Haven't been able to read The Weapon yet, it's not in the library cooperative yet, but I did get The Hero coauthored with John Ringo.
WmLambert Wrote:Haven't been able to read The Weapon yet, it's not in the library cooperative yet, but I did get [i\The Hero[/i] coauthored with John Ringo.

I read it too, but was not all that satisfied with it. I just can't put my finger on it though.