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What the Devil is going on here? I find this totally beyond my comprehension.



Quote:MANHATTAN, Kan. -- Thousands of students from Saudi Arabia are enrolling on college campuses across the United States this semester under a new educational exchange program brokered by President Bush and Saudi King Abdullah.
The program will quintuple the number of Saudi students and scholars in the United States by the academic year's end. And big, public universities from Florida to Oregon are in a fierce competition for their tuition dollars.
John L Wrote:What the Devil is going on here? I find this totally beyond my comprehension.



Quote:MANHATTAN, Kan. -- Thousands of students from Saudi Arabia are enrolling on college campuses across the United States this semester under a new educational exchange program brokered by President Bush and Saudi King Abdullah.
The program will quintuple the number of Saudi students and scholars in the United States by the academic year's end. And big, public universities from Florida to Oregon are in a fierce competition for their tuition dollars.
Remember how one or more of the Founding Fathers (I cant remember who now or how many) said that the US is an "experiment", or something along those lines? Well, I think this grand experiment is beginning to FAIL, what with all the things about the US that are now "broken".

From our immigration crisis, to our freedom of speech that is being abused by so may (and used by our enemy) to harm the US, and our welcoming too many possibly dangerous foreigners into the US for extended stays, etc., I think the US is in BIG TROUBLE if most of these things arent addressed post haste!

A little common sense would help...and we need it "immediately, if not sooner", as I like to say. Wink1
It could be a good thing.
These students will be exposed to the American way of life, they will understand what makes United States the greatest country in this world and perhaps in the future they will be instrumental in implementing reforms in their own countries from what they have learned here.

However, I would observe closely to make sure that education is their main goal in the American Universities.
Oh yeah, I forgot about another factor that is doing great harm to the US and its people: POLITICAL CORRECTNESS!

This political correctness is especially harmful and insidious, because it has its tendrils in many different issues or negative factors in the US that need to be addressed and recitified, serving to prevent the action that is so desperately needed to best serve broader US interests and the welfare/safety of all Americans.
Kamil Wrote:It could be a good thing.
These students will be exposed to the American way of life, they will understand what makes United States the greatest country in this world and perhaps in the future they will be instrumental in implementing reforms in their own countries from what they have learned here.

However, I would observe closely to make sure that education is their main goal in the American Universities.
Great points, Kamil. We have had our differences, but I have to say I agree wholly with you on your latter point (if we are to keep letting such students in at all), and I even could agree with you in part on your former point...it COULD help destroy many myths some muslims have about the US being "evil" (an all-too-frequent radical Islamic perspective).

Just as I think it would be good for the US to allow in a certain number of Mexicans (and others) who truly want to assimilate and become Americans, it would likewise be very good if some muslims (and others) would come here and learn what America is really about, and maybe "catch" what is good about America and take it back to try to maybe change their parts of the world for the better.
Kamil Wrote:It could be a good thing.
These students will be exposed to the American way of life, they will understand what makes United States the greatest country in this world and perhaps in the future they will be instrumental in implementing reforms in their own countries from what they have learned here.
They even can become christians... Shock
I've got a couple of best friends that are college proffs.

In ongoing visits with them, I've heard a good deal about the serious struggles the Saudi students have while here. It proves very difficult for them for several reasons
1. The language issues (including jargons etc.)
2. Many of them are from very "aristocratic families" at home and have trouble enjoying mixing with the "commoners" here.
3. They are a long way from home and out from under Sharia law.
4. day to day interface with female students creates all kinds of tensions.
5. NO ONE ever gave them an "F" at home.
6. Many cases their "servants" get a pretty good education while the primary does a lightly once-over "audit" curriculum.

Pretty tough environment for those young men. I think many have gone back home with some serious self-image issues that they may react against.
Ken
KenBean Wrote:I think many have gone back home with some serious self-image issues
Kamil Wrote:and implement reforms in their own countries
KenBean has good points.

Turkey went through similar problems with Turkic University students from former Soviet Union countries and federations. Problems were solved by opening Turkish High-schools in these countries that use same curriculums as they do in Turkey. Qualified students who pass University exams, are accepted in Turkish Universities.

Actually, there were so many qualified students from these schools that Turkey stopped accepting students from Middle Eastern countries to have room for graduates of Turkic Schools.

By the way, I don't know how other Moslem Countries do, but in Turkey they have, German, Austrian, French, British, Greek, American, etc. High-school and American College. Graduates of these schools have no problems in foreign universities.
Interesting observations, Ken.

If that is true, then spoiled rich kids may get a few humbling experiences to balance out the special lifestyle they get at home. The worst thing to such a person is to be exposed to his attendants as less than regal. Can you imagine the internal introspection a Princeling will undergo if he is not a good student, or needs special help just to pass simple tests?

On the otherhand, it is also hard to imagine a spoiled rich arristocratic Saudi who has been converted to a Wahhabist ideology maintain it under the direct observation of free competition. If he wallows in the unseemly side of life he can find things to criticize, but an honest observation of normalcy should sell our culture to him and break the Wahhabist brainwashing.

Education is the solution to the Islamic jihadist problem. Vigilance is important to protect us from the wicked, but the help this can bring is worth the effort.
Some of them could be recruited as well IF the CIA would return to its roots. Soviets did such recruiting on a grand scale (with their Patrice Lumumba University) to feed (and often seed) a "national-liberation" movements. Present PLO main honcho (Abbas??) is one of the graduates of this school, for example.
ag, the most successful efforts by any espionage agency will be things we never find out about. The best operations (Like the Morris Childs double-agency) is so deeply protected that only a few trusted people ever know about it. Anything less is guaranteed to be leaked by useful idiots in the CIA or NSA bureaucracy.

If you hear about it - then it is good odds to be a purposeful leak. There are true patriots and professionals working on our behalf - and they know who is untrustworthy in their own organization. If they could root out all the Valerie Plames then they would.

The KGB did many things bordering on tactical brilliance - and other things they have come to regret. Our own intelligence agencies know what the KGB did, and if a program they initiated has worth for a similar one from our side, then I am sure it has been examined and evaluated.
I feel the opposite is most likely,they,like their ideological godfather Sayyid Qutb,will learn to hate America when exposed to it.

The Muslim religion is not conducive to open,liberal societies where women don't hide themselves,period. It's not logical to think the most conservative Muslims on earth will find enlightenment in America,they will find confirmation from their paradigm we ARE the great satan.

This is not a wise policy,it is a very risky policy risking some of our lives eventually and I don't think even an elected POTUS should take such risks.

I don't think even Kamil understands the hostility towards females that is built into the Islamic religion in the conservative forms and to see them as we see them will cause more,rather than less angst towards us as it did with Qutb,plus we do not hate Jews,another sore point with Muslims.
Of all the countries in the world, from which we could draw some geniuses who would profit all sides by studying in the US, why Saudi Arabia? Well, the answer is rich, as rich as crude oil. Is Saudi Arabia not the home or center of the Wahabbist sect, among the most strict of the sects of Islam? Where did Osama (who? Where?) bin-Laden learn his ideas before the royal family finally had him kicked out?

Every day, in some undeveloped country, a sheer genius dies from a motorcycle accident, or from starvation, or from some preventable disease. Or, he is doomed to living with less than eight years of formal education, without the ability to work his way up the ladder. And we're still inviting Saudi royalty? No, I think that's unwise.
ag Wrote:Some of them could be recruited as well IF the CIA would return to its roots. Soviets did such recruiting on a grand scale (with their Patrice Lumumba University) to feed (and often seed) a "national-liberation" movements. Present PLO main honcho (Abbas??) is one of the graduates of this school, for example.
Right, but even KGB hadn't recruited lazy, fat-ass arab "aristocrates". They are useless.
Yeah, Fit. I just finished a book entitled "The World is Flat"

Lots.......LOTS of genuine talent being wasted in the world, or turned to destruction.

I do hope and pray that our efforts in Iraq might bring about some change in direction...
The old adage..."teach a man to fish"...

Under Saddam, just like in the communist Yugoslavia...a lot of old fueds were simply compressed under coercion. Lots of pent up pressures that will out until the antagonists exhaust themselves or kill each other off.
(please...just a sad observation.)

Sometimes I wish there were a drug that could cause selective amnesia...just lay down all the age-old fueds and begin to build a society with justice and mercy and opportunity.

Perhaps the "drug" might be the ability to simply forgive.
Ken
Oh, so the world is flat, and germs just spermatogenesize themselves out of nothing? And the sun revolves around the earth and...

We don't need to invite Saudi commoners or royalty to American schools, not in the numbers they've come for decades now. We could have built fewer atomic bombs (oh, say just a thousand bombs) and used the money to sponsor the brightest 16,000 students each from from Bolivia, Venezuela, Cuba, Nicaragua, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, China, etc.. Had we done that, or something similar from now on, it might have made us far more friends in those places, than we have now.

Or we could have, in a more libertarian approach, given 100% tax credits for taxpayers who contribute to such scholarships.
We don't need to Fit2BThaied, they come anyway because our nation is attractive to them without offering bribes to get them to come.
Ken, look on Europe, they build enough perfect society... and talents of Europe are crushed by satiety and prosperity.
BTW, communist Yugo had enough effective system of education. Today most of computer specialists in Britain, Sweden, etc are from East and Central Europe. A lot of american computer specialists looks like Mao or Ghandi... or speaks with Odessa pronunciation...