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The documentary has enough negative about Bush's response to signals as well. I guess all the leftists and their Islamic terrorist friends here don't mind intimidating the press under certain conditions.

All they are doing is guaranteeing that more will watch it. I, for one, shall be tuning in to see if it really is accurate. How much would you want to bet that Bubba is working under the table, with his henchmen, to make this a failure?
I admit,I am shocked it isn't 100% against only Bush.
From what I have heard, Joe Wilson, the lying poltroon, is actually not made to look bad. That's a real shame.
Yea,he's a fairly MINUS honor kinda human.
Let's ballyhoo this a bit. Exactly when is it being shown?

ABC Sunday 8/7 C Monday 8/7 C
Let's not get too excited,it already appears ABC might be buckling to the leftist pressure to "edit" their free speech rights.

Here's a good documentation of the Clinton era activities of the jihad against America and we all know the Cliton responses

Well, sure. Berger and Albright are vehement that they not be portrayed as ordering the bin Laden operation (originally given a go-ahead by Tenet and the top officials of the CIA) to not happen. The CIA team leader on the ground in the video is a composite character, but in actuality was a now-retired Operative who has substantiated that the order not to go ahead was given. In the denials, both Berger and Albright confirmed that the decision was made - just that it couldn't be pinned on them.

I wonder how many people in the Clinton asministration had the authority to stop an approved CIA operation. Who Trumps Tenet?

Even in their demands to edit the video - they confirm the event happened as portrayed.
Here is John Podhertz's take on the issue. It is a bit different from what we are saying.
OK. That's fine with me. If it was alleging specific falsities,it needs correcting.

I don't know many specifics,but I do know this,the USA sat around from 1992 to 2002 and ignored this growing phenomenon. While you would blame this on a failure of leadership,I would blame it on the vox populi.

We're just not prepared YET to resist this insidious evil. I still think the average American does not understand it.

Because most Americans are so secular oriented,we cannot think in a spiritual paradigm. I CAN. I fully understand the Islamic mind.

It teaches them first and foremost that they are superior to us. Not just that they are going to heaven,but they are superior by virtue of THEIR EXPERIENTIAL RIGHTEOUSNESS because of their submission to allah.
This is why the Muslim disdains the infidel so bad,we are unclean and disgusting to him. Whereas The Bible teaches me we ALL are on the level and it is God's Grace,NOT US,that justifies the ungodly. Muslims see it otherwise and it affects their hostility and self righteousness towards us.

To see US having superior wealth and status relative to him is so disgusting it has driven them into a frenzy of hatred that Hitler couldn't conjure up. It is hatred derived from religious evil. The story of Cain and Abel is the same story.

They have chosen murder to solve their problem as Cain chose. They have a religion which can be used to justify the murder as part of the "purity" of Islam. They are simply purifying Islam by all the murdering. Including murdering Muslims who don't buy their version.

Do you know what Pakistan means? The land of the PURE.

Muslims sees themselves as pure and the rest of us are The Bible teaches the opposite,on earth,even the best Christian still has the sin nature and is susceptible to it everyday. I often say an atheist can be more moral than I am and some are.

Bottom line,they hate us because of who we are and who they are. They hate EVERYONE. Muslims do not get along with ANYONE on earth. Not religious Muslims.

Nowhere are Muslims lawful when living next to infidels. The reason they are eyeballing us more than Switzerland is our power,that's the only reason. This leftist view that we have earned their hostility is wrong headed nonsense and they will pay for it with their heads if they achieve a Muslim victory over America.

Sooner we understand their hatred of us,sooner we'll kill them out of their delusions. I tend to think it will never happen and over time we'll partially submit to their desires honestly. Stay tuned,I'll be thrilled to admit error on that one.

Dick Morris takes an in between position on this,mostly blaming Clinton himself. Note once Clinton failed to et Osama because he was afraid of being seen as "trigger happy". Same bs Kamil berates Israel over,the fact is they were trigger unhappy


Mansour Ijaz worked for Clinton informally,he agrees with the thrust that Clinton was blind to reality

Mansoor is exactly correct here. Regardless of what others did, he is ultimately responsible for this outrage.

Here is what Dennis Byrne says about it. Here is the closing part:

Quote:Ahmed Shah Massoud, an Afghanistan Northern Alliance commander who offered to kill Bin Laden for the United States, put the capture-not-kill-decision more succinctly: "You guys are crazy." Lt. Gen William Boykin, a founding member of the elite Delta Force, told the commission, "...opportunities were missed because of an unwillingness to take risks and a lack of vision and understanding."

If they weren't describing the Clinton administration, then who?

A full reading of the report makes clear that the Clinton administration understood the seriousness of the Bin Laden threat, but failed to act decisively. In this, when ABC said "general indecisiveness" allowed the 9/11 attacks, it was correct to include the Clinton administration.

And why the indecisiveness? Rack it up to the idea that he need to prosecute, not kill, terrorists; that someone who has literally declared war on us should be tried with all the rights of American citizens. Maybe we should have tried negotiations instead.
I doubt Clinton realized the full seriousness because it is more than simply some mass murders on America.

Ultimately,the goal is enslavement to Islam. I doubt Clinton or most Americans realize this and I doubt many people realizing the goal would take it seriously.

Partially,Islam has already made great advancements along these lines in Europe and maybe even here. They already are very close to quieting those who would speak truth about the movement,ask Denmark.
Onr thing we must always remember, is the 9/11 Commision was compromised from the get-go, and two of the people who should probably be sitting in prison today were helping to run it. The minimal stuff that did get out through the Commission report should be understood through a prism of accomodation and sell-out.

If anything in that report poses anything that besmirches the Clintons, just multiply it by a factor of rose-coloredness and assume the worst.
That's true,but it still pointed out the Clinton inaction. I assume it pointed out that Bush as well hadn't exactly jumped on Palladin's anti jihad bandwagon before 9-11. I never read a word of it personally. Things like that are meaningless to me.

So,we weren't vigilant before 9-11,this is afterwards and I don't think we've really opened our eyes much yet honestly. Just more than in the past is all,still we are squinting.
Pretty good insights there. Palladin, but I wonder if rationality will ever break out among their population...for any reason. For several hundred years "Christians" fought wars over points of scripture.

In many "Christian" countries even today, the brand of church one goes to determines one's status in a community.
I wonder if Islam can be moderated by any means over time.
For sure we must draw a hard line in the sand on aggression, whether geographically or ideologically.

ie "you can believe what you want until your fist reaches my nose."

It's a fair question. I personally think at the end of the day,either the Bush doctrine works(bringing open democracy to Arab lands and nurturing it) or we'll be pressed into the corner of nuke them or serve them.

I think those who oppose what Bush is attempting ought to be honest,this problem may not go away under ANY conditions,but if there is any hope less than us serving them as slaves OR slaughtering half a billion humans overnight,it is the Bush doctrine.

I'd like to hear alternatives if there are any. Propping up the jokes of governments in Arabia hasn't seemed to serve us well or them,look at their societies. Nothing much productive comes out,just the hot air of hatred and blaming others for their faults.

Can they learn to get along and be more or less accepting of differences without the violence? Probably,but I predict it will take a whole lot of repeats of the misery Iraq,Afghanistan and Algeria are seeing to drive far from their hearts the notions of jihad developed in the last century or so.

They've extended the notion by rationalizing their actions to all infidels,whether or not they are aggressively attacked. I think misery of the first order is the only antidote and whether Bush intended it or not,the misery of Iraqis today will reap the benefit of anti jihad mentality in the future.

There is something good at work in Iraq,but it's impossible to see if you can't factor in the human action and reaction to events. A good example is German and Japanese society around June,1945. Hopefully,the Muslims themselves will do what the US military was forced to back then and save lots of our lives. Nothing short of knocking the he.ll out of them will suffice. IMO.

Here's another piece of the info puzzle relating to the Clinton admin's lack of response to jihad on America. I think the documentary might unfairly blame some,but it properly points to Bill Clinton as basically refusing to face reality,avoiding answering the phone. He reminds me of my mother,"Ignore it and it will go away". NO Mom,that wasn't reality.

re: the alternatives...

I think the three-way continuum you suggested is actually two extremes and a whole lot of middle ground inbetween, all of it being the potential of the Bush "position." We have accepted Musharraf of Pakistan as a helpmate, the Saudi Royal family as long as they oppose terrorism, as well as the nascent Democracies being built, all being partners in the process. It is not one or the other, it is all of the above.

I would contend what you see is an interim and untenable arrangement.

What I see is the long view,maybe a century down the road or even more.

We're going to lose this war almost certainly IF the Bush doctrine fails in Iraq to medicate Islamic conservatism OR we fail to deliver nuclear weapons on Islamic cities of note. The truth is we don't have what it takes to prevail otherwise,determination and the long view,both weaknesses of Americans.

I posit that Europe may already be gone. I don't mean that Nasrallah or Osama will directly rule Germany next year,but I do mean they are coerced into accepting a paradigm that is conducive to extending Islamic hegemony over Europe.

Example,no European would hesitate to ridicule Jesus Christ,I bet money it's a long time before one posts cartoons of Mohammad anytime soon. Islam is setting the tone in Europe and here as well,we're not as fearful,but we are fearful.

Europe will serve with their diplomacy and their revenue the cause of Islam,examples being funding the Arabs against the Jews in Israel for starters. Partially out of fear,partially because Europeans cannot stand Jews not under their control.

There is a threadbare attempt now for NATO to fight the Taliban in Afghanistan and the truth is those guys are in serious danger,1 British camp came real close to being over run about 1 month ago. NATo is a bad joke on the USA and I predict less and less camraderie from Europe and more and more with Islam to appease it in the coming years.

The willingness of Muslims to strike fear into our heart by murdering our mothers or kids WORKS. When they get bold here,we'll cower just as the Europeans are now. Today,we are strong,but we hesitate,tomorrow with the balance of power closer to parity,it is nonsense to think we will THEN be brave.
I don't now, Pal. I think you don't have enough faith in the U.S. ability to wait until the last minute and then ascend to heights our enemies thought us incapable of. Remember the few good Japanese admirals who feared waking a sleeping giant.
Pall, we will win this thing...the easy way or the hard way. I simply pray for the easy way. I think the Bush doctrine is the (sort of muddled) easy way.
If the jihadis were the majority of the muslim population...different position on my part, but I truly don't believe that is the case.
(Most muslims LIKE air conditioning...and decent medicine for their kids, which all comes from the west).
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