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Palladin, being very religious is one of the things that would prevent somebody from commiting suicide, but it is not the only thing.
I think the suicide rates among religions that accept suicide and among atheists are not much higher than Judaism, Christianity and Moslem religions followers whose religions condemn it.

I and Atta might have been similar in our religious convictions, but I don't know about his other convictions and charecter to compare myself to him.

I find it a little bit strange that many people attribute Atta's crime to Islam, but ignore his behaviour of not praying, not visiting Haj, drinking, bar hopping and womanizing habits.
John even if there were a millions of true Moslems who were willing to sacrifice themselves to prevent suicide missions, they would make no difference on the suicide bombers and their motivators who don't care what religion says about suicides.
True, it needs the media to condemn the acts.
Quote:God forbid that we should go to war knowing that it would kill thousands and thousands of babies.

Yeah you would allow them to murder many of our children just to avoid killing their babies. Babies who by the way are indoctrinated into killing our babies in the future. We fight so they stop murdering us and regret killing their babies by accident. They fight to murder us and regret missing our babies. You and others need to stop with this moral equivalancy between the islamic fascist and free people.
Democrats4Bush2005 Wrote:
Quote:God forbid that we should go to war knowing that it would kill thousands and thousands of babies.

Yeah you would allow them to murder many of our children just to avoid killing their babies. Babies who by the way are indoctrinated into killing our babies in the future. We fight so they stop murdering us and regret killing their babies by accident. They fight to murder us and regret missing our babies. You and others need to stop with this moral equivalancy between the islamic fascist and free people.
We, too, indoctrinate our babies to grow up to be baby killers. Mamas, Papas, don't let your children grow up to be baby killers.

Dem4Bush, you've divided the problem into a righteous"us" and an unrighteous, immoral, unethical "them." But your 'side' in the problem also believes in, and rejoices in, dead babies. That 'side' is not worth fighting for.

Who is your God: your earthly nation?
Thai,

That comment,it seems to me,shows a side of you we need to see. You cannot find it within your soul to feel that your Christian status is spiritually superior in God's view to their Islamic status.

Thus,they are your equal before God?

That's not what Scripture teaches,not by a country mile.

God makes it known He sees enough distinction such that they live for eternity in total darkness and excruciating fire and we get to live forever with Him in Heaven,so WHY do you berate Dem for making the exact same distinction?

I share his view. They teach their children to attack our children,we do NOT teach our children such evil,notwithstanding your continued slander of your fellow Christians.
We teach our children to live in peace with all men so far as is practicable,that's what the Bible teaches us. When our nation is attacked,we teach our kids then to slaughter the evil foe bravely.

I wish you could see the difference in what we Christians teach our kids and those Muslims teach theirs. For a lesson in the difference,note it was those dishonorable humans that have been murdering Americans since 1993,we only retaliated beginning in 2002,FYI.
Did Hitler and Stalin's parents teach them love?

Do you know that Stalin's parents wanted him to become Christian priest, and he attended Christian schools. Did he learn to love humanity in these schools or from his parents?

When less than 1% of Moslems are fanatical and some of these people are inclined to do terrorism.
Why are you doing the work of Moslem fanatics by trying to alinate the 99% Moslems from their peacefull ways?

[Image: nazi_hitler_church.gif]
Kamil,

Because

1)I think all Muslims already are the enemy of the USA . I started out thinking as you suggest,I wasn't always hard tailed against all Muslims,but I am now. I see all Muslims as hostile to both Christians,Jews and America as well as other "infidels".
Look across the globe Kamil. India,Thailand,Philippines,Europe,North America. Look at YOU, You waste my time railing on Jews and Christians,but Jews and Christians are not MY ENEMY,they are not the enemy of the USA are they????? Yet,you rail on those 2 and not who our enemy is,radical Islam,RIGHT???

You keep trying to make Christians out as the bad guys and Christians HAVE BEEN bad guys at times,I'm not about to absolve Christians of various types of evil.
The Bible doesn't,so I won't. The Bible teaches Christians can and often do the same errors as non Christians,BUT,The Bible TEACHES us not to. And they are NOT the current enemy of my nation,so why are you railing on us? Islam is dude,remember? Bin Laden doesn't preach from The Bible,does he?

The Koran teaches you people to see us as disgusting in the second half of it,I know what the Koran teaches. You're not even a true Muslim according to your own testimony to me and you're becoming a changed & hostile man,Kamil from 4 years ago,so tell me,what if you WERE a religious Muslim?

Think you might be more likely to join the jihad? I think you would be very interested in jihad if you were "religious" because that's what your religion teaches and it's why I see no realistic scenario to eventually deporting you guys. It won't be fun and I wish it weren't necessary,but your conduct makes me wonder if it isn't eventually inevitable?

Incidentally,that photo is a pitiful attempt to make the claim Hitler's movement was a Christian movement. He is photoed with the Muslim Mufti of Jerusalem as well. Without context,either is meaningless.

I can probably find a photo of Stalin visiting a Mosque,but I'm too intellectually honest to act like Communism is in league with Mohammad.

Hitler had a rather substantial relationship with the Mufti of Jerrusalem,to include using him to recruit Muslims into the Handschar Division of the SS in Bosnia,I'd be careful about propaganda. The Koran makes many of the same comments about Jews Hitler did. The Bible does not. The Bible teaches me to be kind to them.
I might not be a religious person, but I have many friends who are.
None of them support terrorism, and believe that fanatics are giving bad name to all Moslems.

Similar posts to yours are copied and pasted in many Jihadists boards to show what Christians think about all Moslems and try to recruit peacefull Moslems to their side.
You are working much harder than the Jihadists to do their recruiting for them.
Do you think that if you helped to increase their support from 1% to 10% it will make it easier to win war against terrorism?

By the way, the assesment of you above was done by a true Christian who I work with. Just because you call yourself a Christian does not make you a Christian :lol:
Excuse me I do not rejoice in the death of any babies. I just know enough not to shed tears over the children of the enemy which would grow up and kill my children. I put my future children ahead of their children. You do not and thats fine.

We do not indoctrinate our children to kill anyone. If this were true we'd all be killing each other instead of having a a civilized debate here on the forum.

Quote:Dem4Bush, you've divided the problem into a righteous"us" and an unrighteous, immoral, unethical "them."

We would never kill our babies to kill innocent muslim children. They would do it. Its simple we are right and they are wrong, and you're confused.
Kamil,

You missed my point,you people already ARE our enemy. I don't see how me quoting Koran verses for you guys hating us is going to cause you to hate us. It's part of your religion.
It already has occurred,I didn't bomb Mecca on 9-11 did I??? You rail on Christians and Jews while Muslims are at war with our nation,what does that tell me? It tells me your heart is opposed to this nation.

Your threat is if we speak the truth,even more Muslims will become terrorists and I'm supposed to act like the coward and not speak the truth as I see it? YOU ARE RIGHT,I think very lowly of your religion,look at what it is producing daily. Look at your threats,you sound like the slugs in England now.

I have no use for dissembling,that's why I state openly I would deport you people. Also,I would have blown up lots of you people overseas already,like we did in WWII as an example.

I didn't notice your comment about me. What did your "true Christian" friend tell you about me? That Islam is fine? That it is good we Christians allow you Muslims to remove our freedom without a fight? That we sit back and let people like you dictate what we can say so your fellow Muslims don't do more mass murder on we Christians?
You sound more like Hitler everyday :lol:

When did Christians started following Christian Religion?

Please explain something to me. While some people call Christianity, religion of peace, a study of history contradicts those claims.

Buddhists and Hindus seems like were and are much more peaceful religions and even though their population was far greater than Christians they caused very small amounts of deaths.

Just some brief historical observations:

While Crusaders were supposed to free Jerusalem from Moslems, many major Crusaders did not even reach Jerusalem, they went to some Eastern European countries and killed scores of Jews and fellow Christians. Do some research on Fourth Crusade.

By the beginning of the 16th century, the medieval Church and all that it represented, entered a period of profound crisis. By this time, the Church was nearly fifteen centuries old. Throughout its history the Church always had to confront problems both within its organization and from without. But by 1500, these problems rose to the surface and the Church would shake at its very foundation.
http://www.historyguide.org/earlymod/lecture6c.html

At least 618,000 Americans died in the Civil War, and some experts say the toll reached 700,000. The number that is most often quoted is 620,000. At any rate, these casualties exceed the nation's loss in all its other wars, from the Revolution through Vietnam.

The number of World War I casualties (military and civilian) was over 37 million - over 15 million deaths and 22 million wounded. This includes almost 9 million military deaths and about 6.6 million civilian deaths. The Allied Powers lost more than 5 million soldiers and the Central Powers more than 3 million. Casualty numbers are much debated.

The total estimated human loss of life caused by World War II, irrespective of political alignment, was roughly 62 million people. The civilian toll was around 37 million, the military toll about 25 million. The Allies lost around 51 million people, and the Axis lost 11 million. (Note that some Axis countries switched sides and reentered the war on the side of the Allies; those nations are included in the Allied count, regardless of when the deaths occurred.) There was a disproportionate loss of life and property; some nations had a higher casualty rate than others, due to a number of factors including military tactics, crimes against humanity, economic preparedness and the level of technology.
No sir you sound like Hitler. You have to treat muslims with velvet gloves or they'll bomb us. You can't say anything offensive, the hell with the first amendment. Its fascism in which we are all now required by the left and your kind to treat muslims better than we treat anyone else. Palladin is right we should deport all of you back to the middle east. Benedict Arnold wears a turbin.
Come on folks. You are allowing yourself to get carried away with your passions. Calling for complete exportation is first of all inpossible, and secondly not legally fair to the American citizenry.

I am not certain of the number of US citizens, who are followers of Islam, but it is large enough that rounding them up would be far more difficult than what happened to the Japanese during WWII, and they cooperated at almost 100% compliance.

And Kamil has already stated that he is not a practitioner of Islam. He is quite simply defending his beliefs and heritage.

It seems that argueing religion and it's channeling into terror are something that we all have to be careful, when presenting our position.
Palladin and his cronies like to portray all Moslems as terrorists and turn all Moslems against them.

They must think that having problems with less than 1% of the misguided Moslems is an too easy of a problem to handle. They want to even out the odds by having a big portion of the 1.4 billion Moslems turn against them.

Luckily knowledgable and smarter people in the Government know and understand the problem well and ignore a few loud noises made by people who are still mourning the loss of slavery.
Ok, let me just say this. This thread has been going downhill for a while, and though I would hate to close it, I will do so. If all of you don't quit 'bear baiting' each other, I will definately resort to what is considered as extreme action here at Jane.
Not all Muslims support terrorists, but there are some serious problems with Islam. Actually, there's one serious problem with Islam - its misogyny and repression of women. All the other problems stem from that.
Anonymous24 Wrote:Not all Muslims support terrorists, but there are some serious problems with Islam. Actually, there's one serious problem with Islam - its misogyny and repression of women. All the other problems stem from that.

Again, you are wrong Grasshopper, but on the right track. Wink1 You have the ass-end mixed up with the front assembly. Repression of women is a manifestation of the problem, which is the application of Islam itself.
Well, you have to ask yourself, *why* is Islam being applied? Its a vicious cycle - Islam causes hatred of women, which causes rage, rage causes the application of Islam. There is no discernible cause and effect.
Anonymous24 Wrote:Well, you have to ask yourself, *why* is Islam being applied? Its a vicious cycle - Islam causes hatred of women, which causes rage, rage causes the application of Islam. There is no discernible cause and effect.

Like I have said before, my main interests are with the United States and Turkey.
Turkey started reforms after establishment of Turkish Republic in 1923 under the guidance of secular Ataturk.
Now reforms are coming from within the Islamic establishment without pressures from outside influences.
Please check the following threads about these reforms,

http://ai-jane.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3970

http://ai-jane.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3458
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