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I happen to agree with Col Peters on this. Israel has not done a very good job of conducting this war against Hezbollah. It appears to be the work of amateurs, rather than professionals. The question is: is it too late to destroy the capabilities of Hezbollah, or the continued rocket attacks into Israel, for that matter.

Quote:TARGET: HEZBOLLAH

By RALPH PETERS

July 28, 2006 -- YESTERDAY, Israel's government overruled its generals and refused to expand the ground war in southern Lebanon. Given the difficulties encountered and the casualties suffered, the decision is understandable. And wrong.

In the War on Terror - combating Hezbollah's definitely part of it - you have to finish what you start. You can't permit the perception that the terrorists won. But that's where the current round of fighting is headed.

For the Israelis, the town of Bint Jbeil is an embarrassment, an objective that proved unexpectedly hard to take. But the town's a tactical issue to the Israeli Defense Force, not a strategic one.

For Hezbollah, it's Stalingrad, where the Red Army stopped the Germans. And that's how terrorist propagandists will mythologize it.

Considering only the military facts, the IDF's view is correct. But the Middle East has little use for facts. Perception is what counts. To the Arab masses, Hezbollah's resistance appears heroic, triumphant - and inspiring. We don't have to like it, but it's true.

So why is defeating Hezbollah such a challenge? Israel smashed one Arab military coalition after another, from 1948 through 1973. Arabs didn't seem to make good soldiers.

Now we see Arabs fighting tenaciously and effectively. What happened?

The answer's straightforward: Different cultures fight for different things. Arabs might jump up and down, wailing, "We will die for you Saddam!" But, in the clinch, they don't - they surrender. Conventional Arab armies fight badly because their conscripts and even the officers feel little loyalty to the states they serve - and even less to self-anointed national leaders.

But Arabs will fight to the bitter end for their religion, their families and the land their clan possesses. In southern Lebanon, Hezbollah exploits all three motivations. The Hezbollah guerrilla waiting to ambush an Israeli patrol believes he's fighting for his faith, his family and the earth beneath his feet. He'll kill anyone and give his own life to win.

We all need to stop making cartoon figures of such enemies. Hezbollah doesn't have tanks or jets, but it poses the toughest military problem Israel's ever faced. And Hezbollah may be the new model for Middle Eastern "armies."

The IDF's errors played into Hezbollah's hands. Initially relying on air power, the IDF ignored the basic military principles of surprise, mass and concentration of effort. Instead of aiming a shocking, concentrated blow at Hezbollah, the IDF dissipated its power by striking targets scattered throughout Lebanon - while failing to strike any of them decisively.

Even now, in the struggle for a handful of border villages, the IDF continues to commit its forces piecemeal - a lieutenant's mistake. Adding troops in increments allows the enemy to adjust to the increasing pressure - instead of being crushed by one mighty blow.

This is also an expensive fight for Israel in another way: financially. The precision weapons on which the IDF has relied so heavily - and to so little effect - cost anywhere from hundreds of thousands of dollars to seven figures per round. Israel has expended thousands of such weapons in an effort to spare its ground forces.

Theoretically, that's smart. But we don't live in a theoretical world. Such weapons are so expensive that arsenals are small. The United States already has had to replenish Israel's limited stockpiles - and our own supplies would not support a long war. In Operation Iraqi Freedom, a relatively easy win, we were running low on some specialized munitions within three weeks.

Precision weapons also rely on precision intelligence. It doesn't matter how accurate the bomb is if you can't find the target. And Israel's targeting has been poor. It even appears that Hezbollah managed to feed the IDF phony intelligence, triggering attacks on civilian targets and giving the terrorists a series of media wins.

The precision-weapons cost/benefit trade-offs aren't impressive, either. Killing a terrorist leader with a million-dollar bomb is a sound investment, but using hundreds of them to attack cheap, antiquated rocket launchers gets expensive fast.

Just as the U.S. military learned painful lessons about technology's limits in Iraq, the IDF is getting an education now: There's still no replacement for the infantryman; wars can't be won nor terrorists defeated from the air; and war is ultimately a contest of wills.

Those of us who support Israel and wish its people well have to be alarmed. Jerusalem's talking tough - while backing off in the face of Hezbollah's resistance. Israel's on-stage in a starring role right now, and it's too late to call for a re-write.

As a minimum, the IDF has to pull off a hat trick (killing Hezbollah's leader, Hassan Nasrallah, would be nice) in order to prevent the perception of a Hezbollah victory - a perception that would strengthen the forces of terror immeasurably.

If this conflict ends with rockets still falling on Haifa, Israel's enemies will celebrate Hezbollah as the star of the Terrorist Broadway (Ayman al-Zawahiri's recent rap videos were an attempt to edge into Hezbollah's limelight). Israel - and the civilized world - can't afford that.

Yes, Israel's casualties are painful and, to the IDF, unexpected. But Hezbollah isn't counting its casualties - it's concentrating on fighting. In warfare, that's the only approach that works.

Israel and its armed forces are rightfully proud of all they have achieved in the last six decades. But they shouldn't be too proud to learn from their enemies: In warfare, strength of will is the greatest virtue.
John,

There is serious criticism from the rank and file towards both the Israeli political leadership AND towards the chief of staff of the Air Force who so far has prevailed intellectually.

This thing is only 2 weeks old and carping is serious. Israel is in a position to lose in any scenrio I can imagine now with the Bush-Blair thing unless Lebanon's Army really is to create Lebanese sovereignty on Israel's border,whihc is unlikely.
Palladin Wrote:John,

There is serious criticism from the rank and file towards both the Israeli political leadership AND towards the chief of staff of the Air Force who so far has prevailed intellectually.

From what I have heard, the political leadership has refused to allow the military to storm into Lebanon. As Krautthamer just stated on Fox, it is as though the PM has told the military to simply mark time at the line of scrimmage/

Quote:This thing is only 2 weeks old and carping is serious. Israel is in a position to lose in any scenrio I can imagine now with the Bush-Blair thing unless Lebanon's Army really is to create Lebanese sovereignty on Israel's border,whihc is unlikely.

In two weeks(Octover 16-30, 1973), Israel was attacked by a combined force of three country's armies determined to destroy them. In those two weeks, they stopped them cold and actully pushed them out, AND occupied more territory. So, what is holding them up now?
John,

I have to think Israel has the "blahs" spirit wise.

I doubt they realize how awful their performance has been. Not literally(literally it's been fair),but they have succeeded in allowing all Islam to view these particular Muslims as "brave,tenacious and benefactors of allah's indulgence". Which means in their religious myopia,"WE CAN,TOO". Just like they felt after the Red Army tucked tail and fled Afghans.

They would have done well to have ignored the terrorists if this was their best effort. It will end up costing more of our lives this conduct.
Palladin Wrote:John,

I have to think Israel has the "blahs" spirit wise.

I doubt they realize how awful their performance has been. Not literally(literally it's been fair),but they have succeeded in allowing all Islam to view these particular Muslims as "brave,tenacious and benefactors of allah's indulgence". Which means in their religious myopia,"WE CAN,TOO". Just like they felt after the Red Army tucked tail and fled Afghans.

They would have done well to have ignored the terrorists if this was their best effort. It will end up costing more of our lives this conduct.

Agreed! If you are not willing to go to the mat, then don't assume the position in the first place. Clearly this was the desire of a PM to look strong and show that he was able to defend his country. If he does not turn loose the Jewish Dogs Of War, it will be a time he let slip away.
I feel the same way about Americans,though I think we've been more willing than the Israelis show here.

I hate to say this,but the Israelis right now are coming off to me as blowhards and Hezz isn't.

That's ain't fun for me to say. It's just reality as I see it.

I am hopeful there is some secretive info that makes my conclusion look stupid(I am always proud to eat proverbial crow). It's difficult to imagine what it might be though with Hezz still shooting their rockets into Israeli cities as we speak.
What did you expect when they elected peaceniks?
Come to think of it we have the same prob. but on a bigger scale. It all will end with a huge (and unnecessary) loss of life when enraged electorate will throw PC and peaceniks crowd in a closet where they belong, roll up the sleeves and brutally crash the idiotic medieval ideology. By killing off without remorse clerics, mullahs, chanting crowds, etc. And the loss of life will be staggering.

It will take (at least) another presidential cycle.
Ag,

I don't anymore blame mistakes on politicians. I hold the people responsible. For example,it is the fault of the people American vox populi that 1/2 of all Muslims in America came here between 1992 and 2000. That's my view. We hired a man with no virtue in office and he acted normally from that base of virtue.(incidentally,by virtue I do NOT mean his sexual philandering,etc)

The people of Israel,I fear,are finished. I know,I'm a nut and a radical.

However,I fear Jews have come to the intellectual and morale point the Frenchman experienced in 1940. Israel cannot recover from this as France did. Once invaded,the Jews will be massacred and/or dispersed once again. There is no strategic depth in Israel.

The current terrorism is going to destroy Israel I fear. Technology marches forward,the Islamic missles of tomorrow will exceed the capabilities of the missles of today. It seems to me that the vox populi of Israel have lost the will to resist.

As a Christian,I am a friend to all Jews. As one who takes Scripture as truth,I do NOT believe Israel 2006 is Israel of prophecy in the tribulation era. Therefore,I do think they can be dispersed again. Most Christians do not share my views on Israel. We shall see.

I cannot find a single optimistic thing to post on Israel right now,were I a Muslim,I would be ecstatic.

John,

Check out this article,commentary on Peter's article

http//www.donaldsensing.com/index.php/2006/07/28/why-hezbollah-is-winning/
I'll finish it later, but it is indeed quite informative. However, unlike you and perhaps him, I don't believe for a moment that Israel is finished. Granted this bunch in power are not up to speed, but I think that BeBe in charge would have had entirely different results. The more Israel fights, the more entrenched and stubborn it becomes. Israel will only lose when the citizenry loses it's will to beat back the barbarians.

BTY, what part of Tenn is this "one hand clapping" fellow from? I noted the stretched liscence plate. Just like mine, only no wording on mine. Did I tell you that I still have Tennessee lisence plates, and vote in Fountain City?
He's from Franklin,my daughter lives there. He's a career Army vet,he has good experience. I might look him up one of these days.

I think the Jews in general are undergoing another of their periodic "malaise" things,John. I am the radical here,but I think it is due to their seperation from God. It goes in historical waves.

The Bible teaches that Jews are among the chief targets of satan due to the promises God has made to Jews. They are his last line of offense

(by making God out to be a liar). He caused the holocaust John and he will again if the Jews collectively are within that spiritual region where God's Justice allows satan to hammer them again.

I see everything through my spiritual goggles anymore.
Well,Israel is still going after the slime on the westbank and gaza at the same time.

http//news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060730/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_palestinians
http//www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/012/515lsrlj.asp?pg=1

Bill Roggio sees this like Col. Hunt does. Israel is flat losing this conflict.

I hope he's wrong,some see this otherwise,but most analysts think Israel is floundering badly

http//counterterrorismblog.org/2006/07/israel_loses_the_initiative_in.php
Israel is simply going to have to change it's long term approach in dealing with Hezbollah, Syria, and Iran. It's that simple. Clearly the new government is not willing to make the hard choices of making the omlette. They are simply unwilling to break enough eggs to make it, and it will not turn out as it should.

I listened to Bibi today on Rush's show, and if this does not work, look for his government to regain control of things in the future. He is well aware of what is needed to succeed. And note, the unlike the Jackasses here, he is not publically chastizing his opponent. He has more sense than those over here.
Who is Bibi?
John,

Indications are Israel has finally decided to fight back. But,knowing how they've acted heretofore,I think they will still pull punches and look for deals to make.

They're a sicker society than we are and that's REAL BAD for a tiny nation of Jews surrounded by half a billion Muslims. For the first time in my life,Americans aren't worrying about having to slow down the IDF,but to get them off their as.ses.
John L Wrote:Benjamin Netanyahu
Bibi rocks! I wish he was in charge now. Although Olmert is now at least "letting the dogs loose", and the IDF is REALLY kicking some serious butt now it seems...WOOHOO!

Bibi probably woulda kicked Hezbollah's arses already, and woulda had enough time left over to do the world a big favor by kicking France's arse, too! S2

I know, I know...taking out Syria or Iran makes more strategic sense. But France is a historic supporter of and collaborator with the terrorists and terrorist groups who have been attacking Israel for years. And it would be such fun watching the French surrender YET AGAIN! S6

On a related subject, you know what the shortest book in history is? The Unabridged Book of French War Heroes! :lol:

(In case you cant tell, I am still steaming about the French FM saying yesterday that "Iran is a great country and is a stabilizing force in the Middle East". Not that I liked France before that, but WHAT A BUNCH OF A-HOLES, HUH!? S6 )
I'm not so sure if this deserves a seperate thread, so I am putting it here.

As usual Amir Teheri shows that he is a wise person, as he gets to the meat of the subject here.
As a reminder to Kamil for his enjoyment(though they only murdered 1 human),here is today's terrorist missles fired into civilian areas of Israel on purpose by the Muslim "lions of islam" today

http//www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1153292058235&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

John,

The article is of course wise. Where I depart is this idea that the people he is discussing who want Jews to allow others to murder them without much response like Kamil are not simply subjective,they want the Jews DEAD. I think we have about 2000 years of documented history now.

Let's dispense with this canard that men wish Jews to not protect themselves and it doesn't mean what I logically KNOW it means.
John L Wrote:I'm not so sure if this deserves a seperate thread, so I am putting it here.

As usual Amir Teheri shows that he is a wise person, as he gets to the meat of the subject here.
Great column...thanks for posting it. And the author is IRANIAN by heritage? Hmmm...oh, but I am sure to all the leftist pacifists and appeasers and outright enemies of Israel, he is a kind of sell out, or a zionist sympathizer! :lol:

Another guy whose ethnicity is of the Middle East or islamic areas over there is Mansour Ijaz (sp?)...he usually knows his stuff on middle east issues and the War Against Radical Islam and offers valuable insight. I think he ethnicity is Paki, but whatever it is, that guy is sharp, sharp, SHARP.
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