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Full Version: Most Foreign Terrorists in Iraq Are from ...?????
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Guess before you open it. My guess was Saudi Arabia.

http//news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060629/wl_mideast_afp/iraqunrestusfightersegypt_060629155330
I have not looked yet, but my first guess is Pakistan or Egypt. Now, to the article.

Wow! I was only partially correct. I wonder how the Pakis got left out of this one? maybe their area of interests are more eastward toward India. I honestly thought them to be right up there at the top.
I guessed Syria. Most enter Iraq from Syria but I thought most were Syrians. My second guess would have been Saudi Arabia and then third Egypt.
Not surprising, considering that the Egyptian government, amongst the Arab countries, is one of the ones most supported by the U.S. government. The Arabs aren't stupid - ones from countries that have very friendly relations with the U.S., yet are repressed, report astronomical numbers of anti-U.S. sentiment, whereas citizens of countries that are generally not supported by the U.S. or weren't in the recent past(such as Syria, Iraq, Iran), have the highest U.S. approval ratings(yes, the Iranians like us a hell of a lot better than the Saudis, strange as it sounds).
No on an occassion as rare as this anon you're making sense. :lol: The countries with regime's friendly to us are where most of the hatred for us comes from. Its why condi has lead an effort to get reforms in these regimes. If I had thought of that first rather than the routes I would have said Egypt and Saudi Arabia.

Its not strange at all. The Iranian like us because after the revolution which was based on anti americanism they see the result of a regime and based on hatred towards America. The Syrian people also hate the regime. This makes success in Iraq so necasary because a prosperous society in Iraq where most people don't hate us can change the minds in other countries like Egypt, Saudi Arabia and perhaps Pakistan where people hate us.
I don't see this as pro or anti US at all. It's which state has the most jihadist to offer. Anon just doesn't understand Islam's teaching or he would stop with his myopia about America. Islam is an evil fascist oriented political movement with a pseudo religious covering.

It abhors everyone non Muslim.

Egypt has the most jihadis,period.

That's all this means. All Muslims hate all non Muslims,it is what the Koran teaches them.
Anonymous24 Wrote:Not surprising, considering that the Egyptian government, amongst the Arab countries, is one of the ones most supported by the U.S. government. The Arabs aren't stupid - ones from countries that have very friendly relations with the U.S., yet are repressed, report astronomical numbers of anti-U.S. sentiment, whereas citizens of countries that are generally not supported by the U.S. or weren't in the recent past(such as Syria, Iraq, Iran), have the highest U.S. approval ratings(yes, the Iranians like us a hell of a lot better than the Saudis, strange as it sounds).

STOP! HALT here Anon! Consider your statement here, and it's lack if intellectual reasoning. You state "Not surprising, considering that the Egyptian government, amongst the Arab countries, is one of the ones most supported by the U.S. government." This is intellectual deliquency at it's finest Anon. Why would the US wish to attract terrorists by supporting the Egyptian government? As Spock would say, "Captain, that is not logical". Where in G-d's name do you come up with some of this tripe?

Granted, the US is supporting Egypt, when it should be twisting it's arm to change it's political setup. And granted, Egypt has the largest population in the Arab world, so logically, this would be one of the major reasons why. But to equate frequency of terrorism in Iraq with US support of Egypt is beyond stretching reason.

I'm still trying to figure out where you absorb all this manure. Where Anon?

And D4B, I don't see your reasoning much better either. What is with this type of reasoning? Someone has been reading too much Fantasy here I fear.
All the guy need do is read some Koran. He may convert,but if he doesn't,he'll find his own hatred of the USA was taught before the USA was born because Mohammad taught his people to hate anyone who disagreed with Mohammad. The USA falls into that category as does every non Muslim state and peoples on earth.

The Iranian youth like the USA exactly because they've come to despise Islam. They're real party animals those Iranians.
John, I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but roughly 40% of our foreign aid goes to the Egyptian government. That's 'not supporting' them?
Palladin, let me ask you this: Why are all the most fervently Islamic countries friendly with the United States? Perhaps because: 1) Radical Islam is a tool of oppression; and 2) we are on good terms with the most successfully repressed countries?
You just contradicted yourself. Many of these regimes are not as radical as the opposition that hates them and hates the United States. The Egyptian regime is not a radical islamic one but the opposition is. The Saudi regime is ultra conservative but their opposition wants to kick them out and put in a true radical islamic regime with UBL as the leader.
Actually, it may be that repression breeds radical Islam. The countries with secular countries supported by the United States are radical; the two countries with actual Islamic governments(Turkey and Iran) have moderate attitudes towards America and modernization. So by trying to stop the radical Islamists, we have, ironically, made them more powerful.
I don't completely agree anon because its not the opposing radical islam in those countries that lead to it growing in power. There was no democratic structure to discredit the radical islamic movement and thus when held down people still want to give it a chance.

Hamas won the election in Palestine and have not governed effectively since. Given some time they will be discredited and more moderate parties and ideas will evolve.
Anon,

Our best Islamic relations for decades have been with Egypt,Turkey, Morocco and Jordan. Saudi Arabia has had a good relationship with us as has Pakistan.

That includes both types of Islamic viewpoints there and has nothing to do with Islam. It has to do with cold war geo-politics vis a vis the USSR. We had already moved away from Pakistan due to the Kargill war with India in 1999.

Since the onset of the declaration of war on America by Muslims,we see these various relationships changing. Turkey has distanced itself from the USA almost to the breaking point. We have severe problems with Pakistan and IMO would have blasted the place had 1)Musharraf not come around and 2)had Pakistan not been Afghanistan's neighbor.

I think Egypt will become a serious problem over time as will Saudi Arabia,IMO.

Our poor relationships were with Iran,Iraq,Syria,Libya,Algeria and Afghanistan. Again,both styles of Islamic rule there. I see no consistentcy here,you had those who worked against the USA and those who worked with the USA and in between.
I'm saying there's a correlation between secular governments supported by the U.S. and anti-Americanism, versus radical Islamic governments and pro-Westernization. In governments where the Islamists are given free reign, people realize how wacky they are. The other countries don't allow them to realize. For a long time I have believed that people need to be allowed to make their own mistakes to learn anything.
Anon,

Iran could be used as an example you are right,but we have no other example. Bush's policy is what you advocate though,beware. Iraq is too soon to decide.

Palladin (alias Achilles)
First of all, I think Bush's democracy policy is an illusion used to cloud the real strategic reasons for the invasion of Iraq, and the Bush administration has no real intention of bringing democratic governments to other Mideastern countries. Our alliance with the ironclad Saudi regime should prove this. That being said, ultimately the only way to really defeat radical Islam is to let the Islamists take control. When they fail to bring paradise and in fact make life worse, people will realize they're wrong. The Japanese and Germans needed the horror total destruction during wartime to realize the errors of militarism and fascism. The Russians needed 75 years of Soviet mismanagement to realize Communism didn't work. Etc. etc. If we had invaded the Soviet Union instead of proving to them, through an arms race, the inferiority of their economic system, we would have only made communism stronger.
Anon,

I disagree about what Bush's policy is about,but I agree that Islamism is a bad idea and it takes Muslims maybe a long while to figure it out. My view is,Bush is set about allowing them to as far as he can.

We can't force governments to be democratic,only urge them to. We couldn't even force Iraqis to vote.

That's not a bad theory,to know them is to learn to hate them. We see it in Iraq. Our problem is though that in the intervening probably century,we may all be incinerated if an Islamist state gets nukes.

Also,it isn't an absolute as we see lots of pro Islamists still in Afghanistan and Iraq.
There are lots of pro-Islamists in Afghanistan and Iraq because they really haven't experienced Islamic rule long enough. The Taliban ruled for eight years, and the Iraqis have only recently gotten the opportunity to experience Islamism. That being said, the number people against Islamic rule in Afghanistan probably outnumbers those in favor. The reason why they oppose the current government is because of us and racial things, not Islam.
There are other factors than just religion to these fights. Culture is one. I think Iraq wouldn't be so difficult if it was all Shiite or all Sunni. The problem is we're seeing Shiite go from follower to leader for the first time in Islamic history anywhere but Iran and it ain't a work for the weak hearted.

Afghanistan is a mix,drug money,thugs,xenophobia,Islam,tribalism,etc.