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http//www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=ULGGKCBXFHNADQFIQMFCFFWAVCBQYIV0?xml=/news/2006/05/22/warms22.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/05/22/ixnews.html
It may be a good idea, except for one thing. What is to make us believe that should the Afghan government take receipt for all of it, it will not be stollen or eventually wind up in the hands of the opposition?

Most third world countries are well know to be corrupt, and weapons and ammunition is Always worth hard cash to thieves. I am not at all comfortable about this. It would seem that the US should pay for it, and keep it on reserve or in a safe location.
J,

Good fears there. I think the article is unfair honestly,there is no chance any US POTUS can up and evacuate Afghanistan with any shot of a return of Omar's type rule,imo. Party is insignificant.
Interesting article.

It could be a straw dog on two fronts: internationally and domestically. On the world front, it serves to sell the idea that a Vietnam abandonment will not befall any more associate nations. Domestically, it goes to pin such an abandonment on the democrats.

It assures our coalition partners in the War against Terror, and at the same times positions the Dems as the Chamberlains of this century.

If nothing happens, and no such contract with Rosoboron Exports is ever signed, then the elephant has still entered the room, and the specter of a Democrat administration and what that would mean to the world that relies on us as their policeman, would need to be addressed and taken into all future planning.
Countless munitions to Afghanistan, which is probably still near the bottom of the trash pile for more corrupt governments? Talk about investing in the law of unintended consequences! Even if it stays in government controlled hands, which John L thinks is not so certain, what if the govt. changes hands? This is the same country, is it not, where the US once armed......the group that became....the Taliban!!

Not that Democrats are any better or worse at this sort of thing when they're in charge, but here are the Republicans, thinking that you can solve a problem by spending more taxpayer's money - "Just throw more money at it, or more guns." But the money they are spending is the taxpayer's great-great-grandchildren's money.
Fit2BThaied Wrote:Countless munitions to Afghanistan, which is probably still near the bottom of the trash pile for more corrupt governments? Talk about investing in the law of unintended consequences! Even if it stays in government controlled hands, which John L thinks is not so certain, what if the govt. changes hands? This is the same country, is it not, where the US once armed......the group that became....the Taliban!!

Not that Democrats are any better or worse at this sort of thing when they're in charge, but here are the Republicans, thinking that you can solve a problem by spending more taxpayer's money - "Just throw more money at it, or more guns." But the money they are spending is the taxpayer's great-great-grandchildren's money.

You sound like you will make a great Neal Boortz Libertarian. Wink1
Thai needs to read the book,"The Taliban". He made an ignorant statement above and most folks are embarrassed when they realize that.
Palladin Wrote:Thai needs to read the book,"The Taliban". He made an ignorant statement above and most folks are embarrassed when they realize that.
Well, if I'm that ignorant, please de-ignorize me, Palladin. S2
Fit2BThaied Wrote:
Palladin Wrote:Thai needs to read the book,"The Taliban". He made an ignorant statement above and most folks are embarrassed when they realize that.
Well, if I'm that ignorant, please de-ignorize me, Palladin. S2

Is there such a word? And if not, should we present you with the credit? S6
Thai,

READ the book,"The Taliban". It is a well researched book and it destroys the lies of people like yourself who either are liars or are ignorant and don't care to become "de ignorized".

America had no more to do with the Taliban than you do with my job.
Palladin,
I think the standard liberal fare is when an evil regime is encountered to jump into the "we built them up mode." This is mostly because they do not have the ability or restraint nessecary to avoid the cheap "drama of the moment' sound bytes and tag lines from the msm. One such example is the Sadam thing. Many liberals actually think the "we armed him thats why he is bad" line of thought. It is simply useless to point out complexity to liberals and homosexual acitivists, when convenience and indulgence is their primary focus. What fuels their vitriol is their mantra: "Give me convenience or give me martydom." (martyrdom is purely introspective on their part, no liberal would ever die for their cause)

It really is utterly stupid to think that because we helped defeat the Soviets in Afghanistan that somehow we made the Taliban. Even my 6 year old nephew knows they come from Pakistani religious zealot "hatcheries." Even he knows they were a pseudo-student rebellion funded by Pakistani extremists, Mushariff included, when Pakistan believed they needed to create a buffer and recruitment region for heightened possible conflict with India. Duh. FitToBeTried is simply shooting from the hip as always and hoping to wing an idea, the luxury of the desperate and discredited is to be loud and unheard...

The article was typical of British tabloidian nonsense.
Many quotes with no source, which are obviously in the writers voice:
Quote:Defence specialists said Russian arms chiefs at first "fell about laughing" because they thought the order was a joke when it arrived this month.
No source there.

there are 14 quotes in there with no source. When an author has to suppose it becomes an editorial, editorial clumns and opinions are not easy for these run of the mill reporter types, even if "opinoins are like assholes...everybody's got one" source grandfather. Source not actually needed in this case because it is a common saying in the public domain.

Quote:American defence officials have secretly requested a "prodigious quantity" of ammunition from Russia to supply the Afghan army in case a Democrat president takes over in Washington and pulls out US troops.
Again, no source here.

Quote:The Bush administration is said to want the deal because of worries that the next president could be a Democrat, possibly Hillary Clinton, who may abandon Afghanistan.
No source, just sophmoric speculation.

With the phooey of the article aside, if we made 7.62mm ammunition then we could make a killing.
Yes, I invented "de-ignorize" as a joke, by which I honestly meant "I'm ignorant, indeed, about who created the Taliban, so please educate me." I'm not good at emoticons S2 and I sometimes don't do "humble" very well, either.

Please note, also, that I made it an honest question, although to some eyes, it sounded like a declared fact: "This is the same country, is it not, where the US once armed......the group that became....the Taliban!!" I guess I should have used a quotation mark :?: instead of :!:

I will no longer state the question as if it were to be construed as if it were a fact. Is that subjunctive enough? :roll:
Here are the facts. The Taliban is a group of STUDENTS,that's what the term Taliban MEANS. It is transliterated Pashtu.

They were reared by ignorant bast.ards in madrassahs in Pakistan and invaded Afghanistan in late 1995 WAY after US involvement. The Pakistani ISI organized them and Saudi Arabia funded them.

The ground had been prepared by nihilistic warlords whereby Afghanistan had become like the movie "Escape from New York". Rape,murder theft was the only thing happening.

They hung several known rapists and murderers in public in Kandahar from a Russian tank main turret gun and people began to flock to them over the harsh law&order activity they prepared. The people were ready for it.

The Saudis bought off tons of warlords to the point where the Taliban took over Afghanistan so fast it made everyone's head swim.

This mantra that we trained ANY terrorists is a da.mned lie,we trained Afghans only to kill Red Army soldiers. The Taliban wasn't even in existence when we armed Afdghans against the Red Army and even had they been,anyone with a brain ought to know better than to intimate WE trained Islamic terrorists for Islamic terrorism.

The same trash is passed around when some Central American bunch murders someone and they had received training here,automatically everyone claims we trained them to murder.

Wrong,they know how to murder and so do Muslims,these neanderthals do NOT need our training to learn to murder.
Thanks for the history lesson, sincerely.

Now, I'll admit that the officers from Latin America already know how to kill peasants, but the School of the Assasins at Fort Benning, Georgia, really puts the polish on their spit-shines. As the USArmy lt. colonel psychologist trainer said in his books about "Killology," you've got to be carefully taught to kill a total stranger.
Fit,

I think you're views are without merit as relates to your accusations here.

The Americas has had murderous attitudes way before Colombus came,how is it you blame the USA for these people's brutal culture?

The fact is we teach them modern land warfare doctrines.

They all share the brutal culture and you seem only to desire to point fingers at the few who have schooled here and have you pointed any fingers at the Marxists down south or the drug lords who are not remotely deterred by their associations with us as most the graduates are of the school you so ignorantly accused?
Palladin, the website display for this thread is about five feet long, so I hope I'm not missing anything from the right margins. S2

I not only criticize Marxist violent methods; I condemn them. I condemn the actions of all suicide bombers, rebels against duly constituted States, illegal actions by professing Christians, the Holocaust by the Nazis, etc.

I was sitting in my cabin at the Guatemalan border when a man walked across and told me how his entire village went through a massacre by the Guat. army. In a taxi in San Salvador, not far from where Bishop Oscar Romero was murdered while saying a mass, the driver showed me another massacre site. I lived among former Sandinista and Contra soldiers. They were all wrong, and they all sinned. I worked with devout Christian women who spent federal jail time for tresspassing at SOA, and my daughter now worships with a woman who served long jail time for organizing the underground railroad during the Reagan Administration.

I condemn acts of violence. I support non-violent civil disobedience that protests against injustice. So, that's why I'm critical of many graduates of SOA, many of whom control the armies of Latin American countries.

Summary: at least when the acts are committed by Christians, I consider all acts of violence against persons to be immoral disobedience.
Thai,

You blamed the USA trainers for the alleged brutal conduct. I told you the brutal conduct is their CULTURE,it's only 1000 year old now.

Do you really believe the SOA teaches them to hack Nuns in half and such?? Where on earth do you people come up with such slanderous lies?

These false allegations are as evil as anything you delineated as are the opposition to legitimate authority you detailed above by your "religious" friends.

You condemn rebels against duly constitutued states,yet find you religious friend admirable? I find that conduct as evil as anything you delineated and clearly condemned in Scripture.

PSAchilles is Palladin