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Full Version: Where Are Those Danish Cartoons That Upset Muslims?
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Anybody know where they are located. I can't seem to locate them anywhere. :?
SoloNav Wrote:
bh Wrote:http://64.246.44.90/cartoons/Mohammed-dr...paper1.jpg
Not a valid site.
May be from your computer, but it's still valid for me (using Internet Explorer). I can't open it with Netsape.
SoloNav Wrote:
SoloNav Wrote:
bh Wrote:http://64.246.44.90/cartoons/Mohammed-dr...paper1.jpg
Not a valid site.
Here's one from Drudge: http://www.humaneventsonline.com/sarticle.php?id=12146

The Muslims are complaining about THESE??
Aparantly so. Isn't this great PR for Islam? did you read about the Palistenians threatening EU offices, and the Pakistani riots over this? I will bet you that almost ALL of them only heard about it, and never even saw one of the cartoons.

I wonder how many Muslims are embarrased or ashamed of things such as this?
It displays the difference in cultures very well. While this is going on in the Muslim world, we have that idiot editorial cartoonist with the soldier-amputee drawn to mock Rumsfeld. While most people think it is far beyond what should be done - no one is going to be killed because of it.
WmLambert Wrote:It displays the difference in cultures very well. While this is going on in the Muslim world, we have that idiot editorial cartoonist with the soldier-amputee drawn to mock Rumsfeld. While most people think it is far beyond what should be done - no one is going to be killed because of it.

That's a Damned good analogy Bill.
They've got excited only because they have an attentive audience. IF (and that is a big red IF**) they would have been told consistently to stuff it, their "indignation" would be much more muted. Or, most likely, they wouldn't "feel" it at all. Please, observe that the "indignation" was built up slowly: they tested waters, got favorable response, upped the ante, got again favorable response, and off they go. Whole build-up took how long? A couple of months?
There was a nice scene in "The Space Balls, the movie" when Princess shows indignation, start the scene and... has been mocked. S1 She immediately picks up her stuff and go. The same treatment applied at the beginning (it is not late even now) would have stopped such idiocy in its tracks. Unfortunately world fearless leaders do not have any sense of humor... or pride and dignity. Does anybody remember flushed Koran with all stupid investigations and disgusting apologies? It will be repeated with some variations. Hopefully without Van Gog(sp) repetition.

** it's hypothetical only because it will never happen in a contemporary cultural climate.
Apparently a number of European Newspapers reprinted them over the last couple of days ... at least in France, Germany and Spain.

NY Sun reprinted them today too.
mv Wrote:Apparently a number of European Newspapers reprinted them over the last couple of days ... at least in France, Germany and Spain.

NY Sun reprinted them today too.
Yeah, and the editor at a French newspaper got fired for doing so. :!:
SoloNav Wrote:
mv Wrote:Apparently a number of European Newspapers reprinted them over the last couple of days ... at least in France, Germany and Spain.

NY Sun reprinted them today too.
Yeah, and the editor at a French newspaper got fired for doing so. :!:

Yeap, but the owner who is an Egyptian.

This will cause more uproar among the other papers; in fact Le Monde responded by publishing their own *new* cartoon.

A real nice confrontation between liberal press and their beloved Islamists in the make. Let the good guys win!

Btw., Stratfor takes this seriously enuf for two articles today.
A nice summary from the telegraph here.

Quote:A leading Islamic cleric called for an "international day of anger" today over publication of caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed, and a Danish activist predicted that deadly violence could break out in Europe "at any minute".

As more European newspapers reprinted the cartoons, what started off as a row between Denmark's press and its Muslim population grew into a full-blown "clash of civilisations".

....

Jihad al-Momani, the editor of the Jordanian newspaper al-Shihan, was sacked for trying to publish three of the 12 caricatures. He said that he was aiming "to show his readers "the extent of the Danish offence".

.....
He said that a text message had been sent to the mobile phones of young Muslims "telling people not to react to provocations from Right-wing extremists, like burning the Koran, but I know some Muslims will not listen to our message".

He said the level of anger was "very high" in the Muslim community across Europe and the wider world.
ILOVEIT! ILOVEIT! ILOVEIT!

Thanks for the links , guys.

Do our leftielimpwrists undersandnowthatweareatwar?

We are in a world war right now. Freedom of speech my hiney...these people don't even believe in the freedom of LIFE for children or innocents.

Ridicule is the strongest weapon against these Islamist murderers. I'm tickled it popped up in the European press.

I especially laughed at the cartoon about being short of virgins lol
KenBean Wrote:ILOVEIT! ILOVEIT! ILOVEIT!

Thanks for the links , guys.

Do our leftielimpwrists undersandnowthatweareatwar?

We are in a world war right now. Freedom of speech my hiney...these people don't even believe in the freedom of LIFE for children or innocents.

Ridicule is the strongest weapon against these Islamist murderers. I'm tickled it popped up in the European press.

I especially laughed at the cartoon about being short of virgins :lol:
I heard some time back that this is acutally a mistranslation and what is REALLY promised are grapes, not virgins. What a disappointment for the true believers.
Solo,

The word in transliterated Arabic is HOURI. It is difficult to translate(as are many words into English).

I have been told the best you can do in English is it is a female sexual creature that is far beyond the sexuality of the hottest human female in history ever imaginable. Super duper hot babes.

Since being a virgin is a virtue within Islam,it is UNDERSTOOD they are virgins.

I've been studying the Bible from Greek and Hebrew and it's just amazing how terrible the English language is. It is very difficult to translate these languages to our weak and boring language. Arabic is a cousin of Hebrew,so it's no different with Arabic.
On the contrary... it is easy to render other languages into English - IF the language has a universally understood meaning. In English, if you say "the maiden got shot in her back seat" you have many possible interpretations - and each one can be explicitly conveyed in grammatically correct English with no possibility of confusion. One might be: "The young slut took a grazing bullet wound across her right temple while crouching in the rear seat of her 1999 Cooper Mini." Another might be: "The 92-year-old spinster got a hypodermic injection in her right buttock."

The problem is in the original - not in the English language that translates it. If the message is meant to be ambiguous and unintelligible, then English can do that as well. What you can't do, is to blame the messenger for the message. What is originally insipid and uninformative remains so in translation.

In English, the word "Houri" is simply and correctly translated as "Houri," if a better synonym doesn't exist for it. The only confusion comes from the culture it was brewed in. If the original language-speaker doesn't know if you're talking about vestal virgins or concord grapes, then a proper translation will keep you just as confused.
Also: The three most respected trranslations of the Koran says:
The Koran Wrote:056.022:

YUSUFALI: And (there will be) Companions with beautiful, big, and lustrous eyes,-
PICKTHAL: And (there are) fair ones with wide, lovely eyes,
SHAKIR: And pure, beautiful ones,

056.023
YUSUFALI: Like unto Pearls well-guarded.
PICKTHAL: Like unto hidden pearls,
SHAKIR: The like of the hidden pearls:

Quote:the celebrated Penguin translation by NJ Dawood of sura 56 verses 12- 39: "They shall recline on jewelled couches face to face, and there shall wait on them immortal youths with bowls and ewers and a cup of purest wine (that will neither pain their heads nor take away their reason); with fruits of their own choice and flesh of fowls that they relish. And theirs shall be the dark-eyed houris, chaste as hidden pearls: a guerdon for their deeds... We created the houris and made them virgins, loving companions for those on the right hand..."

One should note that most translations, even those by Muslims themselves such as A Yusuf Ali, and the British Muslim Marmaduke Pickthall, translate the Arabic (plural) word Abkarun as virgins, as do well-known lexicons such the one by John Penrice. I emphasise this fact since many pudic and embarrassed Muslims claim there has been a mistranslation, that "virgins" should be replaced by "angels". In sura 55 verses 72-74, Dawood translates the Arabic word " hur " as "virgins", and the context makes clear that virgin is the appropriate translation: "Dark-eyed virgins sheltered in their tents (which of your Lord's blessings would you deny?) whom neither man nor jinnee will have touched before." The word hur occurs four times in the Koran and is usually translated as a "maiden with dark eyes".

Two points need to be noted. First, there is no mention anywhere in the Koran of the actual number of virgins available in paradise, and second, the dark-eyed damsels are available for all Muslims, not just martyrs. It is in the Islamic Traditions that we find the 72 virgins in heaven specified: in a Hadith (Islamic Tradition) collected by Al-Tirmidhi (died 892 CE [common era*]) in the Book of Sunan (volume IV, chapters on The Features of Paradise as described by the Messenger of Allah [Prophet Muhammad], chapter 21, About the Smallest Reward for the People of Paradise, (Hadith 2687). The same hadith is also quoted by Ibn Kathir (died 1373 CE ) in his Koranic commentary (Tafsir) of Surah Al-Rahman (55), verse 72: "The Prophet Muhammad was heard saying: 'The smallest reward for the people of paradise is an abode where there are 80,000 servants and 72 wives, over which stands a dome decorated with pearls, aquamarine, and ruby, as wide as the distance from Al-Jabiyyah [a Damascus suburb] to Sana'a [Yemen]'."

The Guardian Wrote:Christoph Luxenberg's book, Die Syro-Aramaische Lesart des Koran, available only in German, came out just over a year ago, but has already had an enthusiastic reception, particularly among those scholars with a knowledge of several Semitic languages at Princeton, Yale, Berlin, Potsdam, Erlangen, Aix-en-Provence, and the Oriental Institute in Beirut.

Luxenberg tries to show that many obscurities of the Koran disappear if we read certain words as being Syriac and not Arabic. We cannot go into the technical details of his methodology but it allows Luxenberg, to the probable horror of all Muslim males dreaming of sexual bliss in the Muslim hereafter, to conjure away the wide-eyed houris promised to the faithful in suras XLIV.54; LII.20, LV.72, and LVI.22. Luxenberg 's new analysis, leaning on the Hymns of Ephrem the Syrian, yields "white raisins" of "crystal clarity" rather than doe-eyed, and ever willing virgins - the houris. Luxenberg claims that the context makes it clear that it is food and drink that is being offerred, and not unsullied maidens or houris.

In Syriac, the word hur is a feminine plural adjective meaning white, with the word "raisin" understood implicitly. Similarly, the immortal, pearl-like ephebes or youths of suras such as LXXVI.19 are really a misreading of a Syriac expression meaning chilled raisins (or drinks) that the just will have the pleasure of tasting in contrast to the boiling drinks promised the unfaithful and damned.

As Luxenberg's work has only recently been published we must await its scholarly assessment before we can pass any judgements. But if his analysis is correct then suicide bombers, or rather prospective martyrs, would do well to abandon their culture of death, and instead concentrate on getting laid 72 times in this world, unless of course they would really prefer chilled or white raisins, according to their taste, in the next.
And State Department supported muslims in their anger...
Perfect continuation.
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