AI-Jane Political, And Economic Forums

Full Version: Funding The Wall
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.
Pages: 1 2
I just saw this in the Canada Free Press, and it looks like a Great Way to accomplish it, while refusing to support our ideological enemies.  What do you think?

Hey, if he can do this, I say Do It!

UN hit list can bypass Congress and fund Trump border wall

21 Nations that received almost $14 billion in US foreign aid in 2017 could become the key to unlocking the White House confrontation between President Trump and Democrat leaders Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer over their refusal to commit the Democrats to authorizing Congress to commit $5 billion immediately towards the construction of Trump’s border wall to prevent illegal immigration into America.

Trump’s threatened Government shutdown by 21 December has been withdrawn as he seeks alternative sources of funding.

The following UN hit list offers a ready solution:

Country US Aid 2017

Bangladesh $261 million
Congo $494 million
Egypt $ 1475 million
Indonesia $277 million
Iraq $ 3712 million
Jordan $ 1489 million
Lebanon $505 million
Mali $230 million
Morocco $490 million
Mozambique $580 million
Niger $173 million
Nigeria $852 million
Pakistan $837 million
Russia $168 million
Senegal $197 million
South Africa $511 million
Turkey $153 million
Vietnam $150 million
Yemen $595 million
Zambia $419 million
Zimbabwe $194 million
TOTAL $13762 Million Aid 2017
(12-20-2018, 05:16 PM)John L Wrote: [ -> ]I just saw this in the Canada Free Press, and it looks like a Great Way to accomplish it, while refusing to support our ideological enemies.  What do you think?

Hey, if he can do this, I say Do It!

UN hit list can bypass Congress and fund Trump border wall

21 Nations that received almost $14 billion in US foreign aid in 2017 could become the key to unlocking the White House confrontation between President Trump and Democrat leaders Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer over their refusal to commit the Democrats to authorizing Congress to commit $5 billion immediately towards the construction of Trump’s border wall to prevent illegal immigration into America.

Trump’s threatened Government shutdown by 21 December has been withdrawn as he seeks alternative sources of funding.

The following UN hit list offers a ready solution:

Country US Aid 2017

Bangladesh $261 million
Congo $494 million
Egypt $ 1475 million
Indonesia $277 million
Iraq $ 3712 million
Jordan $ 1489 million
Lebanon $505 million
Mali $230 million
Morocco $490 million
Mozambique $580 million
Niger $173 million
Nigeria $852 million
Pakistan $837 million
Russia $168 million
Senegal $197 million
South Africa $511 million
Turkey $153 million
Vietnam $150 million
Yemen $595 million
Zambia $419 million
Zimbabwe $194 million
TOTAL $13762 Million Aid 2017

Sounds good, but that $14B was already spent - so there's nothing left to steal from.
Something tells me that he will find a way to get the money. I'll bet you Little Chucky and Miss Nancy are turning in circles, trying to find out what he is really up to. Spiteful

President Trump Takes Over: Pelosi & Schumer Furious As POTUS Finds Funding For Wall


Next year budget likely has the same items.

But the list is very, very strange.

Iraq $ 3712 million

Iraq I understand -- reparations.  This cannot be cancelled.

Russia $168 million

Somehow I doubt this. The relations are bordering on a nuclear exchange, and Russia does not need the money.

Yemen $595 million

The US is conducting a genocide-on-the-cheap in Yemen.  It cannot be so costly, especially with the Saudis funding most of this worthy effort.

Zimbabwe $194 million

LOL.  Now, here is one worthy government.  How do they call their new president? The Crocodile ?  

Pakistan $837 million

Another item that should not be cancelled, Paks really need money -- in particular for their join weapon program with China.


And where is Israel? Did it close down?
In fact, 2017 should be quite similar to 2016, so compare:

[Image: Du41UkFUYAA68kc.jpg]

and notice that Afghanistan is said to be getting 5 billions per year... hmm.... did I hear this particular number before ? S6
Its almost 13 million dollars so far. Just imagine the political PR this will generate to fund the Wall, once the Jackasses and Never Trumper Dumbasses see just how the American public are supporting all this, and with their own funds.

BREAKING: TRUMP Border Wall GoFundMe SMASHES $10 Million After Vet Makes HUGE TV NEWS



Trump will win this standoff easily since he holds ALL the cards, here is why I say this, from The Last Refuge:

President Trump Posts Border Wall Meme on Instagram That Will Make Democrats Go Bananas….

Posted on January 3, 2019 by sundance 

Excerpt:

It looks like President Trump tasked Chairman Kevin Hassett, of the White House Council of Economic Advisors (CEA), to run the numbers on how the prolonged government shut-down might have an impact on the economy.

Hassett’s rough estimate, calculated from the withdrawal of income from the furloughed federal employees, is around 1/10th of one percent per pay cycle (every two weeks) in GDP impact.  Little to no actual economic effect.
How not giving aid to third countries (none of which borders the US) would make Trump's wall any cheaper?
It's still a massive waste of taxpayer money. Not as massive as the increase in military spending but as useless.

All the border patrol officers are unanimous: They prefer see through obstacles, in other words, fences, than walls.
Yet, Trump, a little bit puzzled, keep on tweeting
Trump Wrote:An all concrete Wall was NEVER ABANDONED, as has been reported by the media"
before admitting that a fence or steel slats made sens. He doesn't know what he wants.
link: see “NOT A WALL”

Problem is that a fence is already there on most of the border and a smart, much more effective, high tech upgrade would cost much less than 5.6 billion.

Sorry: 23 billion. 5.6 billion is just for this year. Total price tag for your taxpayers is 23 billion. Even if you use all the foreign aid money, you won't make it.

Trump is smart enough not ask for the 23 billion upfront, so he starts with only 5 billion, hoping that a such small amount would go unseen under the radar. Failed.

So, you see, his main problem is that he doesn't want to spend one or two billion, he wants his 5.6 billion immediately (and 18 billion later in the following years).

He has two argument to support his claim:
1/ All the migrants are criminals, drug dealers and people with problem [sic].
This is not true of course. Drug dealers don't climb border fences. But it's also incredibly racist, disgusting from someone who represents the USA.
It's like me saying that all men with yellow hairs are funding prostitution and porn... It wouldn't be fair if I said something like that. Would it be?

2/ He does that to protect american jobs.

2A/ Wages have been raising, unemployment is at all times lows. This is not a bad thing. But it shows that the present immigration is not threatening any single job in the US.

2B/
reuters Wrote:As a result, around 800,000 public workers have been unpaid, with about a quarter of the federal government closed for two weeks.As a result, around 800,000 public workers have been unpaid, with about a quarter of the federal government closed for two weeks.

So, not only he blocks the government to force the country to fund his 5 billion dollars obsession, but he doesn't pay governement workers.

There is even worse: Trump is ready to bypass The U.S. Constitution by declaring a national emergency!
Something that has never been invoked in peace time, ever.
Trump is insane.

Just impeach him, save 23 billion. Then if you see something wrong with your foreign aid policy, save another 14 billion by scrapping it.
Total saving: 37 billion.

This president is a hole in your wallet.
The number of Federal workers have grown to just under two million under Trump. The small number of workers affected by Pelosi and Schumer refusing to support border security is not near 800,000 regardless of whatever Reuters wants to claim. The worst part is that these non-essential workers will all be paid in full when it is over, granting them fully-paid vacations. We already know eighty percent of workers have been funded, and of those that are left, the essential federal workers are exempted by any closing.

The vocabulary is a red herring. The Border Patrol has given input to which style of wall is best for different areas needing them. They include technological enhancements and not just cement or steel slats. Multiple architects and engineers put up sample walls, and the best one for each task are ready to construct. The earlier construction costs asked for under Obama was over $20 billion. Trump, being an experienc3d construction manager knows the proper costs and can build what he needs for far less than Obama asked for. The Dems okayed that, but are now only concerned with denying Trump a victory and hurting the security of the nation. There is no separation of "wall" from "electronic technology" as claimed by Democrat know-nothings. Do not repeat their preachments, because you just look silly being that dumb.

BTW, it is not a $5 billion obsession. It is accomplishment of a campaign issue that is supported by everyone except the insane Trump haters.
Only a sick mind can imagine something like that. But when the Big government decided to spend money, presided by the Big Yellow Haired Clown, it doesn't care whether it's effective, economical or if it even makes any sens at all.

If the goal is to get 5.7 billion of federal handout, you better show something visually impressive to the guy who will grant it to you. So here you are....  S22

[Image: AP_18072697632032_t800.jpg?format=750w]

Some specialists who inspected the prototypes gave their opinions. But who cares?   S19

borderwallprototypes.org Wrote:A U.S. Customs and Border Protection report shows new barriers could fail at their job.

....
Trump's border wall prototypes fail design requirements and are riddled with deficiencies

....
CBP’s test teams determined that all of the prototypes would have construction challenges.

In a word, Border Wall Prototypes are Grandiose S2

At least, you can turn this waste of 5 million dollars into something useful be signing the petition to designate the eight border wall prototypes a national monument under the Antiquities Act of 1906.



WmL Wrote:The earlier construction costs asked for under Obama was over $20 billion.
Under Trump, it's now $23 billion. (see reference above). But the most important thing is that this money wasn't spent under Obama. But risk to be spent under Trump.

It's a spending totally disproportionate to the benefits.
You can stop most of the migrants with much smaller investments with repairs of existing fences, upgrades, smart technologies, more border patrols,...

Trump was totally ignorant of these things until he heard the critics and serious proposals form qualified people.
The good thing with him is that when he feels he's saying something really stupid, something obviously stupid for everyone, he is able to adapt, rebound and gradually change his mind on the details.

IMO he is not fixed on concrete. What's important to him is that the biggest amount of money as possible is being spent.
Concrete was something he understood. And possibly and industry in which he had already personal contacts. He is also able to understand steel. And has probably contacts there too. Steel is also a good opportunity to double up on the steel tariffs and on the wall building. This will inflate the price of steel on the US market. A lot of money to make here if he succeeds.

With smart solutions, it's more complicated. First it's more difficult to justify huge amounts of money, in the billions. But more importantly you have to negotiate backsheesh in cash or in stock options with more different people. People he doesn't know yet personally, people he can't trust. People who may not be used to this way of doing business or whose company don't have the habit or even the possibility of handing stock options as backsheesh.

WmL Wrote:Trump, being an experienced construction manager
... knows how to take profit from this.

IMO, if Obama didn't build the wall it's because he wasn't as experienced as Trump.
No. Obama was unable to build anything, even using Lincoln Logs or an Erector Set. Trump is famous for building quality projects and coming in on time and under budget. Before any project is bid, the Architects' plans must be supported by Engineering reports. There is no way any model project would be submitted with wall prototypes that fail design requirements and are riddled with deficiencies. I fear your fishing for pejorative news is fake news. There are several types of wall that discourage climbing. They are solid or see-through walls. The see-through walls are favored by the Border Patrol. Fencing can be cut, so the steel slats are favored. Since most walls can be climbed with a rope and a grappling hook, they can be topped with barbed wire or rounded tops that resist grappling. The second model in the photo shows that kind of top. A tall enough ladder can get over anything.

When Bidders show prototypes, the documentation is a large part of the process. I doubt any poorly-designed walls were offered.

Building for government is fraught with problems. The politician makes a lousy owner. He is unknowledgeable about construction, and doesn't care about cost overruns because it is someone else's money. Trump saved the bacon of several politicians who were unable to finish building projects on their own. He would step in, get the best designers to redesign a workable project, and finish it without problems. Any project under Obama would by definition cost ten times more than what Trump could accomplish. A $22 billion project under Obama would be less successful than a $5 billion project built by Trump. I am familiar with the Detroit area building stories of the FBI building, Police headquarters, prisons, and jails. Nightmares. The only solution is to get a good Constuction Manager to complete the job with the pols keeping their hands off.

To build the wall, we must realize any wall can be climbed or tunneled under, so the project must include technology to prevent illegal entry. Sensors can identify tunneling, or attempts to get through, and a plan to intercept them. All that is part of Trump's plans. Give the Border Patrol what they've asked for, and support them with manpower and funding - and a legal system that makes sense: no anchor babies, and no illegals cutting in the line ahead of legal immigrants.
(01-09-2019, 08:27 PM)Fredledingue Wrote: [ -> ]IMO, if Obama didn't build the wall it's because he wasn't as experienced as Trump.

That's for sure, but only part of the reason.


The Democrats, including Obama, talk up securing the border while pretty much insuring it is not done while they obviously support illegal immigration into the US. So, Obama didn't build the wall because he and his Party really don't want a secure border.


If they really did, they would accept what Trump proposes and then work to adjust and amend it as deemed necessary.


Arguing that something should be done while doing nothing is lunacy.
Quote: So, Obama didn't build the wall because he and his Party really don't want a secure border.

Perhaps, more fair to say that they simply do not care one way or another. *TALKING* about secure border to please the electorate is one thing, talk is cheap, doing anything about anything -- just not in the current US political structure. Republicans generally do not care either.

And I'm not so sure that their current opposition to the wall is about their desire to flood the US with illegals or simply about making Trump fail --- good or bad for the country is totally irrelevant to them and illegals do not make instant votes... instant votes are produced easier with different techniques.

I suspect it is 99% about screwing Trump -- and his reelection chances. OTOH, even if a piece of the wall is built by 2020, these chances improve.

----

Heck, I wonder ... concrete or steel.... what about minefields ? S6
Trump will build the wall.
(01-10-2019, 12:53 PM)Canuknucklehead Wrote: [ -> ]Trump will build the wall.

If ever there was the right man for the job, it is Trump building the wall. I wonder who the engineers are to be who will spec the technology needed to make it work. One thing I would love to see are LEDs that switch on to illuminate and warn the crossers that they have been seen. (like Ring doorbells.)

Do not expect Trump to announce the engineering specs needed to make the wall work. When my son was a Project Manager on the Freedom Tower in NYC, the security was extremely restricted. Same thing with the wall.

Here's a good prospective bit of high-tech that would be interesting: smart-dust.  This is microscopic nano machines made on the synergy principle. One bit at a time is dumb and may pass along some obscure data (vibration, light, movement, etc.) but a few million spread on the other side would be undetectable, and in mass quantities, would give a very detailed picture of  what is going on. It could be dropped on the Mexican side, because it is impossible to detect. If both countries are friendly enough, the info can be shared, and expanded to the Guatemalan border.

I see the current divide between the USA and Mexico as a short lived problem. As Mexico enters the First World from the Third World, it will share more and more with the USA, and effectively merge as new states to the union. This is the actual potential of good coming from one-worlders. Eventually, borders will be unimportant - however that time has not yet come.
(01-10-2019, 11:56 AM)mv Wrote: [ -> ]
Quote: So, Obama didn't build the wall because he and his Party really don't want a secure border.

Perhaps, more fair to say that they simply do not care one way or another.  *TALKING* about secure border to please the electorate is one thing, talk is cheap, doing anything about anything -- just not in the current US political structure.  Republicans generally do not care either.

And I'm not so sure that their current opposition to the wall is about their desire to flood the US with illegals or simply about making Trump fail --- good or bad for the country is totally irrelevant to them and illegals do not make instant votes... instant votes are produced easier with different techniques.

I suspect it is 99% about screwing Trump -- and his reelection chances.  OTOH, even if a piece of the wall is built by 2020, these chances improve.

----

Heck, I wonder ... concrete or steel.... what about minefields ?  S6

I couldn't have stated it any better.

Its all about votes, which equals power and money. And the Dumbass Deep State Republicans are perhaps worse, because they haven't the guts/courage to do the right thing. And since Trump is not part of that Deep State, he is an outsider and therefore must be eliminated,.......at all costs.
Concur fully, obviously.

Dumbasses had their chance -- 2 years of majority and no action. It may yet dawn on them that supporting the wall now may have good effect on their electability in 2020, but then i'm not really interested in knowing just what kinds of thoughts stew in their brains.... I would rather see them gone.

More interesting question: if we accept that the opposition to the wall is merely a power game for the Rats and Deep State GOP... then is the Trump's support for the wall of the same nature too?

Perhaps it is . because The Wall is not the optimal solution.

The illegal immigration is mostly visa overstays -- which are not dealt with by the wall. And of the illegal crossings, it is lately mostly Central Americans that cross the entire Mexico. Now.... just look a the map and compare the length of the northern border of Mexico with the length of the Southern border! And the southern border could have been forced on Mexico as part of the new trade deal... quite possibly without any need to consult the Congress. Trump did not do this, so perhaps he is more interested in a victory over the wall issue than in the solution to the illegal immigration.

Just wonder ...

(one may want to compare this issue with the refugees in the EU. Some EU countries protect their borders ... but actually the right solution is to protect the external borders. Italy is doing its job now, Spain is the weakest link -- but I do not hear anyone willing to even talk about this.)
(01-10-2019, 03:26 PM)John L Wrote: [ -> ]...Its all about votes, which equals power and money.   And the Dumbass Deep State Republicans are perhaps worse, because they haven't the guts/courage to do the right thing.   And since Trump is not part of that Deep State, he is an outsider and therefore must be eliminated,.......at all costs.

Totally agree. The solution, of course, is from the voting booth and getting rid of the RINO's and Demovrats who say anything to con their voters. Of course, that begs the larger problem, in that our educational system has been so corrupted as to produce voters who earnestly believe outright lies. AOS has a degree with an economics minor, yet she somehow missed the idea that Socialism has never worked.

The point there, of course, is that the better minor might have been in philosophy and logic. Since AOS and others never learned how to learn, they just accept whatever is shoveled in their direction, even though there is plenty of info to learn truth and history on their own. Anthropologically speaking, Mankind has two roads to walk. Bushman or primo, a person believes what has been given to him/her. You can live the easy life and just go along to get along - or you can rise above to satisfy oneself that what one knows is real. All we can do is work to change the status quo - using the same time line and efforts that the lunatic Left used to create the mess we have today. My only advice is to bear the heavy load this takes because change is slow.
Of course the debate is political. But Trump is crazy to shut down the government, and once again, failed.
The ShutDown is turning against him and upsets more and more people. It's crazy because the wall is not an urgent issue, not even an important one.
Trump is using exceptional powers (just short of Emergency Powers, yet even this is not ruled out) for a $23 billion vanity project.

It also shows the lack of respect for the government workers and the taxpayers who give the money to pay them.

This is already crazy.

But technologically the whole wall projects is a megalomaniac fantasy.

The cost, not only in money but in basic material resources, in land, in environmental impact is disproportionate for the expected effect. If you spend, say, $2.3 billion and using the money smartly, you can stop 80% of the migrants who succeeds in crossing today. Now, to stop just 10% more you are going to spend 10 times more. Losing $20.7 billion to prevent less than 10,000 illegal crossings per year.
It's absurd.

Especially in a context where illegal immigration is at 20 years low (sorry forgot the link), and this, without these huge walls.
US employment is not threatened neither. Latinos are not muslims. And they don't carry drug in their pockets. This story about drug dealers crossing illegally is pure hoax.

Why did Trump need 30 feet tall walls? building a wall half that size would cost one third or maybe one quarter. Cost is exponential to size, especially height.
A wall 15 feet tall would already be tremendously effective. The difference between the number of migrants who would climb a 15 feet wall and those who would climb a 30 feet wall is minimal. Most of them would climb none of them. Have you tried to climb a 15 feet wall? So a 30 feet wall is plain paranoid.

Even Israel don't build such a wall between them and Hamas. They just discovered a tunnel dug by the Hezbollah direct to Lebanon. Who wants to cross makes fun of the walls. The USSR was hermetically sealed with hen grids and spiralling barbed wire on top. Only Berlin had a concrete wall, much smaller than Trump's.

This is yet-another useless government funded project.
Pages: 1 2