AI-Jane Political, And Economic Forums

We need to chronicle the UK's state of affairs. So, I began this thread.

To start off..

Quote:The national census for England and Wales has come out, and, as usual, this once-a-decade event has had all of its most significant points overlooked.

By any measure, what it reveals is a country undergoing seismic change. Over the course of a decade up to four million more people have entered the country to live. In the capital, London, people identifying themselves as "white British" have for the first time become a minority. Perhaps most strikingly, the national Muslim population has doubled.

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/3511/b...on-doubles

Western countries are becoming ever more non-western.....this should be interesting in the decades to come, especially in the US when the traditional European American becomes a minority.

Anyhow, post your articles on the strange disaster the UK is right here.

Why specifically the UK?

Gunnen,
You may want to read what I posted on the Whacky Islam Thread.

I'm sure that the labours, the socialists, the communists and even more, the ecologists want to unweave the western's society fabric.
They want to destabilize the fundation of the European culture, Western values and the free market economy.
Somehow they understood that they will never have full control on the population and on the economy as long as the European society is still intact. Because they believe the European culture is the craddle of "Capitalism".

They attack everything that is traditional, everything that any normal person here would defend.

- They want to allow all immigrants legaly or as many as possible. Preference goes to poeple who are the most opposite culturaly to a white christian european.
It's a paradox that they welcome muslims, but that's the best they can find to dilute western culture more quickely.
But they love gypsies more, especialy the homeless ones from Bulgaria and Romania.

- Promote gay marriage and any type of untraditional household. Destroying the christian familly cell is their top priority.

- Promote gender neutrality. Campain against gender attributes for girls and boys in toys, clothes and activities.

- Openly support Femen, Pussy Riots and anybody ready to piss on the altar of a church.

- Descredit christian religion

- Call "fascist" or "nazi" anyone who dares oppose their ideas, while being totaly untolerant themselves.

- Fiercely oppose the Transatlantic Treaty which will help trade between the EU and the US.

- Stand against the Financial Stability Pact and the concept of "Austerity" which should get heavily endebted countries out of this mess.

- Pretend to support the Occupy movement but carefuly obmit to expose governement failures. Only ugly capitalists are the culprits.
...

In every case, they want to show that their position is the good, normal, universal one, that everyone who doesn't agree is a bad right wing racist.

Taken separately some of the Ecologist ideas are good because it educate poeple to openness and tolerance.
But put altogether and constantly moving hot air about it, it's irritating.

Slowly poeple are getting fed up. One day the socialo-ecologists will understand that their opinion is not shared by everybody as they think.

Basically, if the elites dilute the populace into an easy to control one by debasing the country's culture and population with immigration and destruction of Western culture, they become easier to rule.

You hit the nail on the head when you said that. We have the same issue in America with hispanics and other groups, plus tearing down what used to pass for American/Western culture. If they remove the largest voting block from exerting any serious political power (white Americans, especially white males -- it all comes down to men in these matters), they rule just that much easier. And these elites are a lot more internationally minded than you think.

This phenomenon is on both sides of the Atlantic and working at a furious rate.

Quote:Basically, if the elites dilute the populace into an easy to control one by debasing the country's culture and population with immigration and destruction of Western culture, they become easier to rule.

I don't think this is the correct explanation.

Beyond doubts what the elites do is self-destruction, and rapid. But just what drives them is not obvious... and it would be helpful to understand.

We should really look into this deeper to understand the phenomenon, let me only throw in a couple of things:

Freddy Wrote:I'm sure that the labours, the socialists, the communists and even more, the ecologists want to unweave the western's society fabric.

"Population replacement" is one of several self-destructive "experiments" undertaken by the Western "civilization" and it may be worthwhile considering more than one experiment at a time, so let me add AGW and O'care as two more examples. All three have a major leftist component to them, but the other two are actually "coalition projects" with capitalist and globalist components as well, this makes them acceptable to the entire elite, left and right. In the case of AGW, crony capitalism is favoring "new energy companies", for O'care the favored companies are Insurance companies. I will therefore assert that there is also a capitalist component in the "Population Replacement" project, it just may be subtler.

This is not to deny the leftist component.... the blind hatred of the atheist left toward Christianity ... to the absurdity of destroying Christianity by importing Islam definitely plays a major role... but this is an obvious one, I want to see the other goals.

Any guesses on what they may be? (I'll post my answer in a few days .. but let's see what you say first).

The root to all this is best expressed by Sayat's thesis within his "Kindergarden of Eden" scenerio. Too many physical adults, housing adolescent brains, doing what they learnt as children, and applied to real life.

They have abandoned traditional Christian ethical training, traditional common sense values, and are hell bent in overturning what they view as an unnecessary evil of their wretched society. The Brits did this, in spades, right after the Great War of 1914, and it has been going on ever sense. The rest of EuroLand is hell bent in following their childlike behaviour as well.

And just look at the results! They are destroying themselves, and don't even realize that being the perfect(What was it Vladimir Ilyich Lenin called them?)...................poputchik(fellow travelers/Useful Idiots). They will be the first ones lined up against the wall, and shot, and they don't even realize it.

Fools all!

All true, but I want to know the exact nature of their foolishness!

Here is what I think is an important tidbit: there is an underlying fallacy (lie?) in all these projects. If you looked at the clip I posted above,



most of it is accurate, but two problems stand out. The minor one is lumping Russia with Europe, the situation is different there. The big one is the assertion that no civilization with reproductive index of less than 2.1 ever recovers. The author takes this as granted, but this is simply not true. As one example, during the Black Death of the 14th century, European nations lost a big chunk of their population (many cities up to 90%, perhaps 30% overall) but this did not stop them from recovering and going into massive expansion mode just a century later. I can give more examples, but instead let me ask: just why population decrease is bad? --- and the answer here is because it would strain the social network, affecting the ability of the elite to tax the population... that's it! The other losers from declined population are the mass product companies, 10% decrease of population would cause 10% reduction in the sales of soft drinks, cars, health insurances, etc etc.---and undermine the stock market. Unpleasant, but hardly a cause for panic.

So the first problem is an unnecessary panic (cf. AGW). The 2nd one is the solution applied: immigration.

Immigration has an interesting effect on the economy: given that the majority of the Muslim immigrants in Europe are not productive members of the society but rather receive public assistance, objectively they are not useful in maintaining the economy... except for one aspect: they are consumers.

So the crony capitalism angle here seems to be this: to increase the number of consumers, income is taken from the core population (depressing its fertility further), transferred to non-productive migrants, who still are good consumers and thus maintain the stock market, and the politicians -- both left and right -- enjoy the temporary economic stability of this "solution". And of course they absolutely do not care what would happen next...

(and the idea of just letting the market and the society naturally re-adjust to smaller population would not occur to them.)

The problem with the video, as I saw it and still do, is that it assumes a Static set of rules. But human interaction is really a Dynamic set. And the case of Russia is a perfect example. Uncle VV is really trying to entice Great Russians to procreate like mad, and he is offering incentives to accomplish this. Meanwhile, in the US, there are negative incentive tax regulations, which punish marriages, so go figure.

But the jury is still out on the Russian model so far. Only time will tell. But still, one has to look at all this dynamically, just as one must regarding economics, and not as the Keynesian Superstition would have us believe.

First, Russia: there are three separate differences. VV's revival is one of them. The 2nd is the majority of the Muslim population in Russia are not high-birth rate migrants, but rather nations that are at nearly the same development level as Russians (Tatars would be one, I think largest, example) and were successfully integrated for centuries. the stats for Tatarstan mirror those for Russia, and funny enough show just the same Putin's revival.. The 3rd difference is that Russia does not have a decent Social Security System -- and while I agree with you on taxes, it should be obvious that Social Security systems in Western Country are a huge reason for depopulation. Still, yes, "only time will tell".

Now, on Static vs Dynamic: but the problem with the Western World is that it is a Static system. It cannot become dynamic unless the current regimes are overthrown and both taxation and Social Security scrapped entirely.

Gunnen Wrote:We have the same issue in America

I didn't know that. Not because I don't live in the US but because it's not obvious to me how opposed to Western culture the Mexicans are.

Anyway, if it happens in Europe, it may happen in the US as well because of globalism.
Gay marriage is in the process of being legalised in the US too. This is not a coincidence.

mv Wrote:"Population replacement" is one of several self-destructive "experiments" undertaken by the Western "civilization" and it may be worthwhile considering more than one experiment at a time

I'm not sure the elite are destroying themselves or that they are concious of it. I'm not even sure it's the elite or those who want to take the place of the elite.

The Capitalist component is an interresting one. But I don't think it's the same conspiracy. I think it's another conspiracy, with other actors.
Mostly specific actors for particular actions.
For example:
- AGW and the carbon stock exchange dealers.
While I disagree with you on climate, I agree that this topic has been hijacked by a few poeple who make insane profits without reducing pollution.
- O'care and the insurers. Here againm I think health care for everyone is good, but the fact that insurers rose the premium immediately and that the governement didn't do anything against it, even ignored it is a proof that it was designed to boost private profits.

What the socialo-ecologists are doing is a little bit different from basic industry lobbying.
IMO it's more an attempt to get more power and perhaps apply their anti-civilisation ideology.

Immigration profits to the ideologists and to the capitalists as well. Larger market base, as mv explained. But also cheap labor.

Immigrants are not those lazy iddle wellfare dependants. Most of them have a job, often before being legalized. They accept to do all kinds of works, are not in labor unions, poorly know their worker rights, often they can't profit from social security. And also because they want to have a job and earn money.
They are often the ideal worker for non-qualified jobs.

It's interresting to note that labor unions in western europe always promote policies which destroy employement. Including letting immigrants settle down.
But they don't work for the private industry, obviousely. Save in cases of mafia rings when they force a plant to shut down to be resold cheap later. But these are special cases, not mainstream labor activities.
I'm talking about the leftist labor unions, because there are also christian labor unions which are a little bit more honest.

What the leftist labor unions want is nationalisation of production plants. For power, for the possibility of reselling it later at their profit and for ideology (which is the same as power, just with an intellectual nuance). And they agree with the ecologists and other far left parties to destroy the society. That's why they support each others.
Unions won't care less about gay rights (and would be ideologicaly against if they were consistant) but agree witht the ecologistst and trhe socialists because they are allied.

Leftist unions want collectivisation of the economy, soviet style. The USSR is their model.
They understand that they have to dismantle Europe culturaly to achieve that, including by diluting the locals with immigrants.
Stalin did it with the use of cattle wagons. Today they welcome immigrants who move naturaly.

Ecologists are either communists who infiltrate the Green party or multiculti leftists.

The multicultis want to transform society because they hate it. It's their goal, collectivism is only a tool to achieve that. If you collectivize the economy, you forcibly destroy the society as experienced in USSR.
For the communists the oposite is true: Destroying the society is only a tool to collectivize it.
If it's enough damaged, you collectivize it more easily... as experienced in USSR.

Because they are too weak to achieve that, they work with the Big Gouvernements. They love Big Gov because that's close to what they want. And it's a legal structure, already existing, in which they can participate if they gather enough votes.

Their supporter base is definetly ideologicaly motivated.
Of course most of them are recieving money from the governement either through a public servant salary or an unemployed benefit. Unemployement salary is more exact.
But many truly believe in communist and/or anti-Western ideology.

Russia is not victim of this, not only because Putin is against it or because the russian population is much more traditionalist, but because there is no one component of the society diminated by gays or by ideologicaly leftist poeple, like in banks, medias and arts the West.
There is also little to do to collectivize an industry already largely controlled by the governement and still largely sovietic in its material structure. Any attemt to re-collectivise would amount to a coup against Putin.

Quote:Immigrants are not those lazy iddle wellfare dependants. Most of them have a job, often before being legalized. They accept to do all kinds of works, are not in labor unions, poorly know their worker rights, often they can't profit from social security. And also because they want to have a job and earn money.

Don't be so sure here. There are different scenarios, like trained professionals (H1B job visas in the US), agricultural workers (many mexicans in the US) and also low-skills third world immigrants to the EU. Google is your friend to find more, but here is one link : Norway Loses $713,000 on Every Muslim Immigrant. The situation is similar in most Western European countries. It is entirely possible they do want to have a job, but it would be a cash job that does not return anything in taxes.

Quote:Russia is not victim of this, not only because Putin is against it or because the russian population is much more traditionalist, but because there is no one component of the society diminated by gays or by ideologicaly leftist poeple, like in banks, medias and arts the West.

Now this is valid... I was hesitant to bring this up, but there is a definite connection between gays, who have no biological future and thus no concern about the future, and suicide of the Western nations.

For instance, on page 6 of this report we see the total fertility chart for the UK, since 1924. The current decline began right after sodomy was decriminalized in 1967.

Fred, just travel the American Southwest and let me know what you find there. It won't be anything first world for the most part.

I am just going to say it: America is replacing the original Anglo-European population with a class of laborers, new voters, and people who end up a drain on people actually paying taxes. Its great how tax dollars are paying for the destruction of a nation.

(12-26-2013, 07:34 PM)Gunnen4u Wrote: [ -> ]Fred, just travel the American Southwest and let me know what you find there. It won't be anything first world for the most part.

Overly reactionary and not anywhere near that simple. There have been various "third world nation's" lurking in the Southwest for long over a century. Not from immigration ... not from any attack on "Anglo-Europeanism" ... they're basically a vestige of how this nation came to be ... they're not very pleasant places, but they have nothing to do with immigration or any white liberal plot. I've lived and worked in the non-first world (namely Juarez) and, although there is plenty of crime and DUIs and people who opt out of drivers licenses and insurance and drug and alcohol and wife boxing issues ... (most notably in "the nations"), I've not experienced anything that even remotely resembles Juarez ... not in Albuquerque, not in Phoenix ... not even in Kayenta (which is technically one of "the nations"). In short, we're screwed ... but we're no where near as screwed as Europe. We're primarily being invaded by non-English speaking Catholics that are mostly looking for work.

Sensibilities ruffled? Must be the fact I am picking on Hispanics obviously. I did forget I come from a nice place to live with peculiar demographics.

You're taking it too far and thinking I am saying it is all Juarez. I am merely saying it is a shithole I would not live in for obvious reasons. I almost shot people twice in El Paso alone.

And nowhere near as screwed as Europe? The only reason our birthrate stays at replacement level is due to the extremely high birthrates of Hispanics and others. We also have a habit of making their importation quite easy to do. White birthrates in the US are close to those in Europe, and that is going to be the key in the coming years.

Look at the political trends when it comes to what group votes for who. Look at the demographics and the changes over the last thirty years and what is predicted in the next thirty.

You're going to love "America" in the coming decades. But like most neocons, conservatives, whatever, it doesn't matter to them and reality won't be visible through the blanket they pull over their heads.

(12-27-2013, 12:10 AM)Gunnen4u Wrote: [ -> ]Sensibilities ruffled?

Always ... but not by you brother.

Gunnen4u Wrote:Must be the fact I am picking on Hispanics obviously. I did forget I come from a nice place to live with peculiar demographics.

You're taking it too far and thinking I am saying it is all Juarez. I am merely saying it is a shithole I would not live in for obvious reasons. I almost shot people twice in El Paso alone.

I'm not surprised. But as shitholes go, the ones on this side of the border remain infinitely nicer. If you've been across that bridge you know. It's like night and day.

Gunnen4u Wrote:And nowhere near as screwed as Europe? The only reason our birthrate stays at replacement level is due to the extremely high birthrates of Hispanics and others. We also have a habit of making their importation quite easy to do. White birthrates in the US are close to those in Europe, and that is going to be the key in the coming years.

Look at the political trends when it comes to what group votes for who. Look at the demographics and the changes over the last thirty years and what is predicted in the next thirty.

You're going to love "America" in the coming decades. But like most neocons, conservatives, whatever, it doesn't matter to them and reality won't be visible through the blanket they pull over their heads.

Again, who would you rather be invaded by? Catholics looking for work ... or Muslims trying to set up new Caliphates? Pick your battles. There are two that matter ... the first and foremost is the rule of law. Increasing the number of legal visas would help a bunch. Unions would protest this vehemently ... let 'em. It creates a problem for their party. The second is English as the 'official' language. This one seems like a minor detail to many ... but it's not. It's THE major cultural battle of our times and one worth fighting tooth and nail. It goes the heart of assimilation and benefits everyone except the folks that want to perpetuate poverty and ignorance (I'm thinking of Jesse Jackson ... but frankly, I can't think of a single Mexican activist that is anywhere near as corrupt ... help me out here if you can). This gets camouflaged under the blanket of 'racism' but the irony is the exact opposite is true. Values transcend demographics. The only major adverse 'value' in our new invaders is their propensity to accept, embrace and perpetuate petty corruption. And frankly, that's a lot easier deficit to overcome than the suicide theology that's overtaking Europe.

Quote:Again, who would you rather be invaded by? Catholics looking for work ... or Muslims trying to set up new Caliphates?

Both, of course. There are 8 million new Muslim thanks to Junior et al and they are working diligently on setting up the Caliphate (s). And of course they also breed like goats.. rabbits.

Yak, you're painting everything too positively. On the whole, I'd rather have NEITHER of them.

I can google for tons of Mexican activists wanting to drive out/breed out whitey or take back what they claim is theirs. I can also see demographic trends and accurately predict who is a growing group of voters who vote for people like Obama, et al. There is a reason the USG does nothing of any note about the illegal immigration issue - because it works for them in the long run, especially when an amnesty comes along. Even the second or third generation hispanics here know the game for what it is.

Anyhow, more disturbing trends in the UK: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/i...arent.html

I honestly did not know it was that bad there.

And that is exactly why Ukip and Nigel Farage, are so popular these days. He is against all this, and also a C.Liberal/Libertarian leader. If Ukip manages to win a majority eventually, GB will definitely make a U-Turn toward more sanity.

But this is a problem with ALL of Europe, and needs some serious change of direction.

I doubt they'll affect the change required in time. Besides, the average Briton has years of progressive multi-culti shit instilled them from birth.