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Someone had to take a stand against what is going on in western society, too bad only the Russians had the guts to do it.

I disagree with this myself if it were to occur here.

Gay folks can no more help being gay than I can being straight, IMO. This campaign in Russia has led to some hooligans persecuting some youngsters and beating them mercilessly with impunity, humiliating them, you can watch it on youtube. That's just not acceptable for decent humans.

I disagree when gay folks make the claim it is not a sexual perversion, it is. So are 1000 other sexual thoughts I have though.

Gay marriage? It's an oxymoron to me, but, if civil society wants it, to me it's like society wanting late term abortions. It happens, but, I am not involved. All kinds of stuff I disagree with happens everyday, I can't control the desires of myself hardly, let alone society.

Other than that, I share the current pope's view, live and let live. It's just 1 more myopia of humanity, we're inundated with various flaws, all of us.

You'll disagree with me, but, I just don't think you can or should try via state law to stomp out X conduct of humanity, whether it be gay sex, sex outside marriage(prostitution is illegal here and we do it anyway), drug usage, alcohol consumption, gambling, etc.

God loves these folks as much as He does us. To me, that's the bottom line on gay humans. They can't help their desires, I can't help mine.
I've have no problem with gays, I have a problem with them flaunting their lifestyle in public.
Palladin,

You seem to have a couple of misunderstandings here.

Quote:I just don't think you can or should try via state law to stomp out X conduct of humanity

The currently passed measures do not attempt to stomp out any conduct and do not outlaw gays. They aim at stomping out certain aspects of gay behavior that are dangerous to others and the society as a whole, for instance gay adaption and gay propaganda aimed at the young. Just being gay is not illegal and in fact the clip WarBike posted shows a couple of Russian-language gay publications -- not outlawed. Even public gay display is not outlawed --- only when it aims at the young.

The state only currently aims at stopping gay genocide of humans, nothing more.

Compare this with bans on cigarette advertisement in many countries that do not outlaw smoking per se -- same thing.

Your other mistake is connecting the official actions with hooligans:

Quote:This campaign in Russia has led to some hooligans persecuting some youngsters and beating them mercilessly with impunity, humiliating them...

Hooligans are grass-root and precede current official actions. Some of the anti-gay like episodes are likely fakes (cf. Matthew Shepard in the US who was a drug dealer rather than gay as we finally learn). No evidence that the state encourages beating gays. Messier Tesak (televised gay-beater) is very careful to concentrate on pedophiles rather than vanilla gays.

Now one thing the TV clip (incidentally, private production, not official propaganda) may be incorrect is the statement that gayness is easier to cure than alcohol addiction. -- I don't know if this is true or not.
Well, the hooligans may have been doing that previously,but, the state has inadvertently given them approval since they are not prosecuted are they? I mean, they feel so confident they put their crimes on youtube.

I disagree with our current culture, MV, which sees gay sexual desire as "just different". It isn't, it's perverted by any reasonable standard.

It's unhealthy, the CDC says gay males average 52 years of physical life in the USA.

IF we were simply honest and broadcast that fact, the gay folks who are trying to influence bi sexuals into the strictly gay lifestyle would have a harder time with it.

Not only that, but, the people, gay or straight, who encourage them clearly don't care for them. Encouraging someone to shorten their life is a really pitiful display of humanity. If I were an atheist I'd discourage this conduct if I could personally. Facts are facts.

Outlawing free speech doesn't work. Heck, there were plenty of gay Russki when Stalin was in office, I doubt there are a higher % today.

There has to be a better way than what Russia is trying and to be honest, Putin doesn't believe in it himself, the anti gay thing with him is a typical "gotta have a bogey man" pr campaign, IMO. It helps him both with the RO Church and with the Muslim population.
Quote:Well, the hooligans may have been doing that previously,but, the state has inadvertently given them approval since they are not prosecuted are they? I mean, they feel so confident they put their crimes on youtube.

Tricky situation here. Some are prosecuted all right, if there is an evidence of crime (gays being beaten), one of the local chapters of OccupyPaedophilia was closed over this. What Tesak does is borderline -- he does not beat gays, but intimidates them by displaying his muscles. Not sure what kind of crime this is either in the US or Russian system... I suspect it is worth a 2-week sentence at most in Russia.

Quote:Outlawing free speech doesn't work. Heck, there were plenty of gay Russki when Stalin was in office, I doubt there are a higher % today.

Outlawing free speech does work. Anti-smoking campaign reduced the %-age of the smoking population in the US from 40% to 20%. This is the right analogy for gays also: public disapproval will not turn "hardcore" gay into a straight, but stop borderline cases from gay lifestyle, thus saving lives.
There were no "visible" gays under Stalin (or under the communist system after Stalin), gay behavior was a crime, punishable with long prison terms. Without a doubt the %-age was much smaller than today, because of exactly the borderline cases.
I have mixed feelings here: on one hand, several years of detention seems harsh for a gay that does not actively promote his lifestyle (cf. the case of Parajanov -- 4 years)....otoh, it does save lives.... but regardless, this is not what is happening today.

Quote:There has to be a better way than what Russia is trying and to be honest, Putin doesn't believe in it himself, the anti gay thing with him is a typical "gotta have a bogey man" pr campaign, IMO. It helps him both with the RO Church and with the Muslim population.

Not true. Putin's measures save lives, and thus have 90%+ approval in the general population, this is way higher than the %-age of religious people. As just one example: decreasing gays visibility reduces number of AIDS cases, thus saving money for the state, improving the demographic situation, and reducing human misery overall. The rapid improvement in demography in the last couple of years should be at least partially attributed to new attitude toward the perversion.
Its encouraging to see someone differentiating bi-sexuals from homosexuals. They are different and make up the vast majority of what are mistakenly labeled as 'gay'. And almost all of them are anything but gay. That's why I refuse to use the word.

Fortunately, the number of homosexuals/bi-sexuals performing such lewd acts in public are very small. And they should be made to suffer the penalty, just as heterosexually lewd behaviour should also be punished for occurring on public property.

The reason why so many of us are revolted by the sight of homosexual acts is because it is deviant behaviour. And by that I mean it deviates from the norm. TQ used to have a fit when I used that word to describe it, but it is actually very accurate.

Incidentally, that Russian video is so bad I would be ashamed to put it out in public, solely for the quality value.
Honestly unsure here: I prefer "borderline cases", you "bi-sexuals", but are the terms equivalent? There ought to be the cases when a person is uninterested in the opposite sex but not necessarily interested in his own either... but how many of such cases are there? But the bigger reason for my preference for "borderline" is because there are lots of cases where sexuality is determined by early experimentation.

Russian video: amateurish to start with, plus translation problems in few places.
BTW, here is what new Putin's laws helped to achieve: Through The First Seven Months of 2013 Russia's Demographics Are Still Slowly Improving

[Image: RussiaNaturalPopChangeJan-July2013.png]

and when one chooses between national survival and the rights of perverts to pervert, the answer is obvious.

Putin wants to rule a country that has a future... and he is getting there: 'Dying' Russia's Birth Rate Is Now Higher Than The United States'.

Now, I should not advocate this, but i'm really curious: how much would the birth rate improve if gayness was punishable by a mandatory death sentence?
I suspect the best approach here is to outlaw Vodka and birth control pills. Once the riots and unrest settle down, all of the drunks will need something constructive to do, and their thoughts will turn to....................... Its been an established fact that alcohol and sex really don't mix, contrary to popular perception.

A few tax breaks here and there, along with national procreation holidays added to the calendar, and the next 'opportunity' will be just how to educate all those young citizens. S5
John,

By definition it is deviant. Not sure how anyone can honestly feel it is normal. I think gay folks in general are just in a reactionary mood because we straight folks have gone overboard condemning them for centuries.

It never should have been that way. It always should have been, "this is just a flaw of humans" like 10,000 other things we all secretly feel.

After Jeffrey Dahmer's conviction, the guy was interviewed with his father and his father admitted HE had the exact same desires to have sex with, murder and eat the victims.

No one dreams up sh.it like that, we're born with these myopias and the difference was the father refused to act on his urges because he was raised a Christian and his conscience prohibited acting on it.

Jeffrey however was raised by his parents to be an atheist and he said to him the people he murdered were worth no more than a cockroach. So, he followed his desires to their fruition.

One acted, one went through life w/o acting. Both had the overpowering desire to do it.
(09-21-2013, 12:26 PM)John L Wrote: [ -> ]I suspect the best approach here is to outlaw Vodka and birth control pills. Once the riots and unrest settle down, all of the drunks will need something constructive to do, and their thoughts will turn to....................... Its been an established fact that alcohol and sex really don't mix, contrary to popular perception.

The former option is way too dangerous, the second is not going to do much. The thing is that Vodka was pretty much outlawed twice in Russian history, the first time the casualty was the Russian Empire, the second is the Soviet Union.
As for the birth control, I think abortion is still #1 method in Russia, if anything, outlaw it. (It was illegal under Stalin).

Palladin Wrote:Not sure how anyone can honestly feel it is normal.

In other words, Hollywood and MSM performed a miracle. And a nuke on LA will do much to undo it.
Preview of the Sochi Olympics:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEV9O_O7EB8
Should be interesting, that's for certain. S1
I don't understand how you can see bisexuality as more normal than homosexuality. IMO bisexuality is even worse, like, realy anything-goes.
And, also IMO, suffices to have desired a man once to be qualified as gay.

I don't understand why being gay is shorting human life. Can you document it?

Or that it contributes to population decline.

As JL pointed out, alcohol and other drugs are certainly the second reason for this decline, after emigration. (They didn't call it emigration, they said evacuation)

Under President Absolut Yelstsin, alcohol consumption was the worse in the world and hard drugs spred even faster than AIDS.

I'm also upset with over-representation of gays in the medias and pop culture. You can hardly turn your tv on without seeing one singing or talking BS. They are so much everywhere on tv that's not even funny.

But I'm not going to say that homosexuality is a desease or even a deviation. It has a natural cause and exists in the same proportion, in the same percentage, in every civilisation.
This percentage is around 5% for the men (only men are in question here, for the moment) and this with universal regularity. More than 5% occures when cultural tendencies apply, and in the range above 5%, state policies may have a role, but at the end of the day, it's always the cultural background of the poeple which decides.

In many countries where homosexuality is banned or even punished by death, the level is very high, much higher than in libertarian countries.
On gay lifespan: one of many studies. You are wrong about 5%, it seems 2-3%.
(09-23-2013, 03:41 PM)Fredledingue Wrote: [ -> ]I don't understand how you can see bisexuality as more normal than homosexuality. IMO bisexuality is even worse, like, realy anything-goes.
And, also IMO, suffices to have desired a man once to be qualified as gay.

I don't understand why being gay is shorting human life. Can you document it?

Or that it contributes to population decline.

Are you referring to me, or Patrick. You didn't direct your statement to anyone.

Quote:I'm also upset with over-representation of gays in the medias and pop culture. You can hardly turn your tv on without seeing one singing or talking BS. They are so much everywhere on tv that's not even funny.

Look to the Whores in the media for making such a big deal of it. Odds are this is just a tiny and highly vocal minority, which are getting all the coverage.

Quote:But I'm not going to say that homosexuality is a desease or even a deviation. It has a natural cause and exists in the same proportion, in the same percentage, in every civilisation.
This percentage is around 5% for the men (only men are in question here, for the moment) and this with universal regularity. More than 5% occures when cultural tendencies apply, and in the range above 5%, state policies may have a role, but at the end of the day, it's always the cultural background of the poeple which decides.

In many countries where homosexuality is banned or even punished by death, the level is very high, much higher than in libertarian countries.

There was a recent explanation, posted here last year, explaining a good possibility. I've forgotten where it is, or the name of the process where genes are changed/contaminated after conception. I wish I could remember where it is.

But the point is that the recipient of this homosexuality, or bisexuality, has no say in what happens. Its not their fault.

And going back to the bisexuality being worse than complete homosexuality, the danger is perhaps greater among the general population due to the chance of cross sexual infestation. Or would infection be better? Homosexuals just pass their diseases amongst themselves unless they give blood.

But bisexuals, to varying degrees, have a better means of restraining their sexual activities. Its one of those, "Hey, you want to greatly increase your chance for having your dick fall off, or your anal opening corrode away? Then enjoy your homosexual tendencies and reap the consequences." Why do you think homosexuals have such a high percentage of clinical depression and suicide? Lots of 'gayness' there, eh?
Ok, I found it. Its called 'EpiGenetics', and you can take you pick of the many different links here on this search page. There's even the Youtube video going over it from NatGeo.
mv, thanks for the link.

Yet again, one should not mix gay lifestyle and unsafe sex.
It seems that gays are doing more unsafe sex than heterosexual, possibly because there is no risk of pregnancy. Maybe also because they are very sexualy active poeple and their only way of doing it is much riskier than vaginal penetration.

It's surprising how few gay are taking care of AIDS dangers... As if AIDS was the ultimate sacrifice to plently live up to their gayness...

Yet being gay, in itself, is not reducing human lifespan. Unsafe sex does.

And perhaps gays are also using more hard drugs as they frequent more clubs and artistic communities.

But it's important to make the difference, to know the reason for this shortened life expectency.
Because many ignorant poeple will simply think that being gay kills you earlier and this can be a dangerous developement.

There was a time circa 1939 when Russians and Poles believed that jews killed christian babies at their rituals. We shouldn't let similar ideas emerge today.

PS: I'll look into epigenetic later - thanks -
(09-23-2013, 04:15 PM)John L Wrote: [ -> ]Ok, I found it. Its called 'EpiGenetics', and you can take you pick of the many different links here on this search page. There's even the Youtube video going over it from NatGeo.

I would be VERY skeptical of this, and for that matter of the entire thesis of homosexuality being predetermined. This is a heavily political thesis, and both the evidence and common sense do not support it.
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