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I have to say that today has been a very interesting day, if nothing else. I am trying to finish a rush job for a client, which offers good money, so I am rushing it for installation tomorrow before she flies out to Bermuda Thursday in order to spend time with her Bloke boyfriend.

I love rush jobs, because they pay very well. But unfortunately there has been absolutely nothing on any of the DirectTV channels that have excited me. Some movies, but nothing to stimulate my brain. The Science Channel has had everything but science on it today, with absolutely no astronomy, or geology. And the news is boring, because its all about one of a couple of things, including the Boston Massacre.

So, I wound up putting the TV on H2HD and listening to an all day barrage of Ancient Aliens. Never have I heard so many 'so called' experts attribute ancient man's contributions to history, and ancient aliens receiving almost all of the credit. After an entire day of this highly speculative accreditation, its a wonder early humans have ever had one original thought, were it not for some ancient visitor showing him the way.

Does anyone follow this genre, i.e. Ancient Aliens? I'm curious here because I did not hear of any single hard evidence to back up the claims put forth by the host of true believers.

Am I just giving myself away as a genuine Skeptic here? Or am I really missing out on something of significance?

Every time I go to some semi science site, which speculates on ancient impacts and how celestial bodies led to catastrophic events, ancient aliens keep popping up even there. Here's what I mean. Even he can't keep these ancient aliens out of his works.

Anyway, I'm finished with this job, thank heaven. I've had enough to last me for a long, long time.

So, my question remains: is there any real evidence of the remote possibility that UFO actually did do all the guiding here? I really would like to believe we have been visited, but so far don't see any real evidence to support it conclusively.
Here's a good website to take a hard, science type view of such claims. This man is a theology professor, but, very learned outside theology.  He debunks lots of false claims about say "Noah's ark has been found" or that "aliens built the pyramids" ,etc.

https://drmsh.com/?s=aliens
That definitely looks interesting Patrick. I've already picked out a few articles to read.
I located this after spreading out a bit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pla...z93g-ux8#!
I have finished watching the first hour of this three hour video. And I must say that I sure wish these same fellows would take it upon themselves to help the AGW Skeptics totally refute the Global Warming Religion. These guys are taking every point made by the Ancient Alien Religion, and showing it to be nothing but a total sham, point by point.

The biggest difference between the Ancient Aliens sham, and the AGW sham, is that the former wants to make money at your private expense, and the later wants to get the State to confiscate your money for their own profit. Big difference there.

If you all have not watched this somewhat long video, I highly recommend it in one's spare time. One can watch it bit by bit and still understand the 'whys' and 'wherefores' of the video. Its really great.
Dr. Heiser is who I took my OT theology courses from.
(04-25-2013, 01:25 PM)Palladin Wrote: [ -> ]Dr. Heiser is who I took my OT theology courses from.

He's an interesting fellow, and I'm surprised he is a Bob Jones undergrad. I'm saying this because he adheres to a "Divine Council" thesis that may not tend to usher in ancient aliens, but perhaps ancient Creators as beings.

I've always been intrigued with this concept as well. What if the universe, as we know it, has been created by superiour beings, who are macro-managing things as little as possible, but letting things play out naturally. This really does tend to debunk any form of fundamentalism that predisposes an active, micro-managing being, such as Ron's universe.

I would certainly go with the former first and foremost. Why would any supreme being ever wish to poke its figurative fingers into things, when it is so much easier to just sit back and observe?

What is also most intriguing here is the purpose and scope of what we refer to as the 'soul'. Where does it come from, where does it go, and what part does each one play in the grand scheme of things? Are they just tiny parts of a whole? And what happens when we humans actually come to the point where we are able to preserve this entity and inject it into other machines/objects/creatures, supposing we will be able to of course.
No. IMO, it's BS. No alien showed us how to think, how to lit a fire and how to knot a flint ax.

No alien showed us how to build nuclear power plant, super sonic planes and computers. So I think we were able to build pyramids and stone circles a few thousands years ago too.

And if most of the religion invented by mankind were obsessed by the sky it's because of its fascinating infinity and mystery. Not because aliens descended from upthere.
I highly recommend that above film by Chris White and Michael Heiser. I'm still wading through it, about half way through, but it is most informative, and they take every conceivable attribute given to ancient aliens and use logical counter-arguments to them. Well done documentary IMO.

I find the Great Pryamid data very intriguing.

JP Houdin - Cheops Revealed (1 of 4).

All of this is just good plain common sense that ancient man could certainly have done, with good management. And certainly without any outside celestial help.

How to Build a Pyramid. Archaeology Magazine.

[Image: pyramid1.jpg]
John,

Heiser became a believer as a young adult from a totally atheist/agnostic household and my guess is Bob Jones was where he was guided to as a student after conversion because he's about 100% not a fundy at all. That is not where he would advise one to go now.

He sides with the "divine council" idea because he demonstrates it from the OT text. His views are not what you've heard developed before about "ancient creators", they are about Yahweh as the creator, very orthodox.

His beliefs are 100% orthodox Christianity, Nicene Creed,etc.

He just sees in the text a council of co regents including The co=creator Son and created spirit beings some of whom rebelled against His authority.

Job chapter 1 is an easy passage to see the council, Psalm 82 is another where some of the revolutionaries are getting their asses chewed and sentenced.

Before rejecting the idea, consider that until the 4th century, Orthodox Jews and Christians knew this and approved of it. For separate causes, each tried to change the doctrine in the 4th century AD so Dr Heiser is sort of like John the Baptist in theology anymore. In the wilderness, but, I think his view here is demonstrably textual.

Here's some data he has out on the subject that I read a few years back that caused me to take some OT courses he recommended.

http://www.thedivinecouncil.com/

I also have a file of an unpublished book he wrote on the subject. I think it's awesome myself. E mail me if you want it.
Yeah, I linked to it above on an earlier post.

Incidentally, there is a brand new Ancient Aliens movie out, which came out this Earth Day, entitled Sirius Disclosure. It looks like its where that little tiny skeleton came from.

Here's Heiser's comment on the new movie. Oh, and catch the title, "UFO Religions". That's cute.

You know what? I believe we are looking at a Huge Moneymaking Machine here.
Obviously the cows have more to worry about than Ancient Aliens alone: Mutilated Cows Found at Missouri Farm, Police Not Ruling Out the Possibility of Aliens.

Why would aliens be so interested in the innerds of cows? Cowabunga! Haven't they got anything better to do?
Nothing like a good conspiracy, or whatever, to keep the juices going. S5
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In case you have missed this, the question of "Alien Visitors" is going to be heating up again.  And logic seems to be on the side of the science community that is less skeptical.

Quote:Scientists Say Aliens Should Have Already Visited Earth
The Earth could have already been visited by an alien civilization many times.


“Either nobody leaves their planet, or we are in fact the only technological civilization in the galaxy.”

[Image: aliens-visited-earth.png?itok=gLnmL6Pl]

The debate about the existence of alien life has been a topic that has interested humans for a long time and the scientific community has had split opinions regarding our solitude in this amazingly big universe.

Now, new research published in the Astronomical Journal provides further information that invites us to rethink our mindset on this topic.

During the summer of 1950, physicist Enrico Fermi posed a question to his colleagues over lunch:


Quote:
“Don’t you ever wonder where everybody is?”

He was referring to alien life.

The Earth is 4.5 billion years old, and we could say that that was roughly the time it took a “kind of life” to be capable of space travel. Our universe is approximately 13.8 billion years old.

Fermi proposed that during this time, the galaxy should have been overrun with intelligent, technologically-advanced aliens. Yet, we have no evidence of this despite decades of searching. This postulate became known as the Fermi Paradox.

Briefly, some of the main points of this paradox, formalized by Michael H. Hart, are:


1-There are billions of stars in the Milky Way similar to the Sun.
2-With high probability, some of these stars have Earth-like planets, and if the Earth is typical, some may have already developed intelligent life.
3-Some of these civilizations may have developed interstellar travel.
4-Even at the slow pace of currently envisioned interstellar travel, the Milky Way galaxy could be completely traversed in a few million years
5-And since many of the stars similar to the Sun are billions of years older, this would seem to provide plenty of time


Now, you can have a clearer view of why this paradox is so interesting for scientists and further investigation is being done, the odds seem to be really high.

The expectation that the universe should be teeming with intelligent life is linked to models like the Drake equation, which suggests that even if the probability of intelligent life developing at a given site is small, the sheer multitude of possible sites should nonetheless yield a large number of potentially observable civilizations.

This new study offers a different perspective on the question: maybe aliens are just taking their time and being strategic.

“If you don’t account for the motion of stars when you try to solve this problem, you’re basically left with one of two solutions,” Jonathan Carroll-Nellenback the study’s lead author said.


Quote:
“Either nobody leaves their planet, or we are in fact the only technological civilization in the galaxy.”

Stars orbit the center of the galaxy on different paths at different speeds. They occasionally pass each other, so, aliens could be waiting for their next destination to come closer, Caroll-Nellenback’s study says.

Researchers have formulated different theories trying to answer the Fermi Paradox, including the possibility that all alien life forms in oceans below a planet’s surface and there’s even the “zoo hypothesis” which imagines that societies in our galaxy decided to not contact us to “preserve” us in a way analogical to how we preserve some natural places—or even to prevent them from getting some kind of “disease” from us.

A crucial fact to this new study is the fact that, as previously mentioned, the galaxy moves. So, aliens could be waiting for an optimal travel distance to explore new territories.

“If long enough is a billion years, well then that’s one solution to the Fermi paradox,” Carroll-Nellenback said.

Another important thing to notice is that the research team did not attempt to guess at the alien’s motivations or politics, something that usually delayed the attempts to solve the Fermi Paradox.

We have to consider also that our consciousness and our perception of the “civilization” concept may play a crucial part in this kind of studies. So, our predictions may be based on our own behavior.

“We tried to come up with a model that would involve the fewest assumptions about sociology that we could,” Carroll-Nellenback said.

So far, we’ve detected about 4,000 planets outside of our solar system and none have been shown to host life. But we haven’t looked that hard—there are at least 100 billion stars in the Milky Way and even more planets, so we still have a lot more to explore.

Maybe, merging philosophy and science together for a moment, we could believe that at some point, if there is in fact alien life out there in the universe, we (or our kids, grandkids, or great grandkids) will get to know them and make really close contact, assuming all of this in basis of some of the ideas exposed in Kant’s Critique of Pure Reason, where he says that if something can happen, and there is enough time for that to happen, it will happen.
Quote:“Either nobody leaves their planet, or we are in fact the only technological civilization in the galaxy.”

That is answered by the simple logic that we live in a bad neighborhood. Earth sits in the "space" between teeth at the outer edge of a buzzsaw-shaped galaxy. In other words, we are not near any logical trade routes, nor any prime location for distance viewing. Yes, there is an electromagnetic bubble of babble coming from us, but the period of time any civilization uses such communication is a very short era. Anr advanced life form is probably no longer using such primitive communication.
JohnL Wrote:aliens could be waiting for an optimal travel distance to explore new territories.

That's not rational. During all this time, aliens would have invented faster than light travel, dug worm holes or got instant access to parrallel universes.

WmL Wrote:In other words, we are not near any logical trade routes, nor any prime location for distance viewing.
Yes, we are the last uncontacted tribe in the Galaxy.

More seriously I think that the distances are so large that we can't see the signs of other civilisation, and it would very very difficult for advanced civilisations to see us, as well.

The probability is very high that a few other civilisations exist at this time and at any time prior of after ours, in our galaxy. And if we account for the other galaxies, it's more than certain.
Unfortunately even by being able to build record slim smartphones, we are unable to reach the closest planet in our solar system.

It's not even sure if it will be possible to travel between two stars one day.

Sometimes I think that God created the Universe so large by design, so that intelligent populations can't meet each others unless they reach a very high degree of knowledge.
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