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I'm sure the Whore Media is all over this overly wild exaggeration............right?

I wonder if the Grizz is reading about it from Media Matters too? After all Uncle Jessie made that wild comment on 'Faux' News,.........right?
I have the Glock 19 and a S&W M&P9c that I carry alternatively. I would match them toe to toe with any of these revolvers suggested, and likely shoot better with them. Furthermore, the 9mm is quite adequate as a round. Often, it is the shooter that isn't. I carry a gun 98% of the year and have expended thousands of rounds in gaining proficiency with my sidearms, and hundreds of dollars in finding the *right holster* for carrying.

All guns can fail, and I have seen vaunted S&W revolvers go tits up as often as an auto does. The opinions about which is more reliable or better are just that: opinions. A particular cop friend of mine in Knoxville, TN, carries his issue sidearm (a full size Glock in .40) as well as a backup sidearm (a Glock 27, the smallest .40 they make), plus a snub revolver in an ankle holster. When his first gun goes wooly on him, he has his secondary, and if that doesn't work, he has his snub nose revolver. In his line of work, I do not blame him for his methods or theory. My larger point is that he relies on two autos before a snub nose revolver.

At the same time snub nose is indeed adequate depending on the situation it is carried in. I wouldn't recommend it in a place like Atlanta or whatever, but they have not been around for many, many decades if they were not an extremely effective tool for self-defense and police work. Many times has my friend been only armed with his snub nose S&W.

Myself, based on past experience in hairy situations, would rather have as much ammo in the gun as possible, and be able to carry as much spare ammo as possible, in a solid, simple platform with proven reliability. For that, I have a Glock and one of the S&W M&P series pistols.

If you're going to carry, I suggest not holding back. Carrying and willingness to use a firearm is a statement that you are willing to go into armed combat with someone, and for that, the better you make your chances, the more likely you'll win.

Also, train, train, train.

Oh, I wish we weren't in an ammo famine right now.
How did that S&W revolver break? I've seen things wear out ... cause the timing to go bad ... poor maintenance that caused dragging cylinder rotation ... etc ... but I've not seen a catastrophic malfunction up close and personal. I've seen plenty of pictures of cylinders blown in half and top straps blown off and pealed back (usually double dipped reloads) ... I had a friend that was a Deputy Sheriff suffer an AD that put a round through his calf (end of the day of plinking ... dented the primer, misfired, didn't clear the cylinder, he re-holstered it to leave .... then KABLAAAM!) ... but I wasn't there and have never seen a major "tits up" failure in a wheel gun ... just curious what that was.

Quote:Oh, I wish we weren't in an ammo famine right now.
Here is the order of famine ...


(Hint, you can still get things like dies these days ... so if you need 'em ... !!)

I don't know what it is, but the last time, when there was at least some meager quanties of 9mm and every other caliber ... you flat out could not buy .380. Now when you can't so much as find a box of 22 LR ... the only thing on the shelves is .380. I guess it makes some sense ... people tend to over compensate and fail to see the next disaster coming. The .22 drought is really weird ... it reeks of absolute desperation.
The firing bin broke off the hammer, just the end of it, falling into the gun and jamming the action completely. If he were to have been shooting at people rather than a target, he would have been fucked.

All guns can fail, and will fail eventually depending on amount of use.

And yea, the .22 drought is what is pissing me off the most, since about 70% of my handgun practice is done with .22s. I did backorder some 7.62x54R for my mosin-nagant rifles (I have a nice hex receiver Russian one and an utterly high quality Finnish one), and they weren't expecting to ship it till March 20th or so. Well, I got an email saying it shipped today. I have thousands of rounds of military ball 5.56 and regular .223, 9mm, 22LR, .45 Auto, etc. Powder, dies, primers, the works. But I refuse to touch any of it for the moment as I don't know when things will improve.

I was stocking up on stuff back in '08. I have about 5K rounds of .22LR backordered too, but that might not be in till June or October even, as I have seen.

It is desperation, and it is panic buying in part, but I think there are other motives for this last minute arms race. A lot of people are buying up stuff not because it might become illegal (why would you buy something that could become a felony to own?). No, I think there is a sizeable group preparing for something far more intense.
(02-15-2013, 01:08 PM)Gunnen4u Wrote: [ -> ]I think there is a sizeable group preparing for something far more intense.

There are always such groups ... but I doubt that they're all that sizable. However, people have had their chains rattled quite badly ... a whole lot of them. Folks that own say a .22 but would never feel the need to belong to the NRA. Suddenly, for the first time in their lives, they can't go down to the store and buy ammo ... or find any on line ... or anywhere else. The folks that you mentioned in California and Missouri that that dutifully registered their guns and were told that would be it ... and now they're looking at legislation that would have them turn them in to get melted down. The folks in industries that manufacture firearms ... or ammo ... or magazines ... watching their products declared illegal contra-ban ... and all their barbers and chiropractors ... all losing their jobs or seeing their business drop to nothing. All the people that would be content to stay out of the political process ... all the people that thought they'd be left alone to go about their own business. Probably doesn't mean a lot right at the moment, but I doubt it's going to slip anyone's mind by 2014. Obama will not be doing his party any favors between now and then, he doesn't really have to does he? 'Rats are over reaching at every level of government. It sucks but it's going to make it much easier to boot the bastards than if they governed a bit more moderately or gone a little more slowly. Cold comfort is better than none at all.
Ugh, your post stinks of moderation and caution. I want serious change to be thrust upon this country. Then you go on about booting them bastards out, with the ballot box I am assuming or some other shit.

It won't happen, bud. Within the next few years you are going to see a massive entrenchment of the DNC, and a rise in the demographic that votes for them. And you're going to see gov't be a lot larger by 2014 or 2016 than it is now. We all know how reversible that can prove not to be.

No, this is an extremely divided and polarized country at the moment, with several groups looking to dominate the other group. Will the other group or groups fight back when numbers are against them politically?

Mostly, I just sick and fucking tired of everything as it stands. Nothing really changes, and it only lurches ever forward in one direction, this country. The only way to truly change anything is through a lot of bullets. This is how most of the world works, and I think Americans are quite ignorant of this fact. Whether such forms of change come or not I dunno, but there [i]just may[i] be a time to grab our collective nutsacks, quit being weaklings and pussies, and give up being comfortable and contented for something.
So, to summarize, basically you want to turn the place into Baghdad west?
Baghdad West wasn't too bad, really.

Is that what you're scared of? So you're just willing to draw the line at yelling and typing on the internet a lot? If the gov't came for your guns, you would just hand them over?

Moreover, are you deriding me with that comment?

Oh, and don't cherry pick one of these questions and ignore everything else. I'd like a forthright answer to all of them if you're going to answer one of them.

And this is why America will lose everything. Because they believe in all that "the only right way to change things is through the ballot box" faggotry. Guess what? That didn't work out very well. America saw the disasters and huge problems looming ahead. They saw what sort of gov't Obama envisioned. They knew what could happen. And they still did what they did last election.

And most of those who can see what is coming or what will happen if this keeps up won't risk anything which might take away from what they have now, and by that, they will lose a lot of what they have now. Just think that if a few million would threaten such actions in this country, the gov't reconsider a lot of things.

America is a shell of itself.
(02-18-2013, 04:05 PM)Gunnen4u Wrote: [ -> ]Moreover, are you deriding me with that comment?

Just seeking clarity. I prefer the political process to bloodshed. Sue me. There are provisions for bloody revolution ... they're best avoided until they become unavoidable. We haven't had the type of cultural divide that required it for a century and a half ... and it would be better if we didn't for another century and a half. You may be exactly right but, in general, overreach breeds the type of contempt that turns people sour. And I see things getting more sour by the day. I'm hoping that will carry the day ... I'm also hoping that I'm not simple collateral damage when you've had enough and start blasting ... aim East before you swing around to the south OK? Just enough so I can get my head down. I'm not your enemy ... but if you try to cap me, I'm really not going to be so keen on being your ally.

That said, I really wish there were more suitable jobs in Wyoming. I really thought I'd end up staying retiring here in Colorado, but the place has become Californicated. It's becoming less and less tolerable very quickly. I'd like to see where MagPul ends up. They could move about 80 miles north to Cheyenne and pay a sh*tload less in State Income taxes. They could also probably keep some of their employees (bitch of a commute) and possibly entice them to eventually relocate (easy move) and quit the growing number of Colorado chump fees. If they pulled that off, it might be a catalyst for other medium sized manufacturers. Living standards would probably go up dramatically for the folks that make the move as Boulder County is pretty taxy. It would be nice to see that kind of mini-migration to a 'civilized' state with a lot fewer Democrats. If it took hold, it might open up some doors for me.
Oh so now I am going to shoot you and other people at random apparently, because I am going to snap? And had enough? How simple you make it all out to be.

Simple you WON'T do anything, just be a bystander? Well, I guess that is being honest enough. Unlike what Call of Duty advertisements say, there isn't a soldier in everyone. Using red herrings (?) is what I think you're doing -- you're throwing out a lot of them. Your scorn is noted.

I would like to know what the point of a militia, and applying that term to the people to say they have rights, is anymore.

And I wouldn't have to sue, I'd just enjoy the Schadenfreude imposed by the "political process" on those who believe in it, especially those who are GOP loyalists. Worried about overreach? Yea, you are going to be worried about that no matter what. Have fun playing game at the ballot box. Let me know how that works out for you in twenty years...when it doesn't work out and you're fucked out of everything you used to have.

Oh, and the reason Wyoming is so nice is because there is nothing there. Bring jobs, and you bring people. Bring people, and eventually you will get what happened to Colorado. A mini-migration would be wonderful for about a decade, then major urban areas would become infested with white flighters looking for a nice place with nice jobs....that they'll infect and kill off eventually like they do everything else. I used to hate driving around Colorado Springs and seeing all those liberal white middle class assholes.

BTW. Midway USA is ceasing magazine sales among other things to military and LEO in states where civilian ownership of high capacity mags and assault weapons are illegal. If the people cannot have them, their *betters* cannot have them either. I might make an order from them right now just because of that, even though I have been a regular customer of theirs for years.
Quote:Midway: No LEO Mag and Ammo Sales Where Civilian Bans Apply
Posted on February 16, 2013 by Robert Farago
TTAG reader and Registered Nurse Lance Sauer recently received this email from MidwayUSA:

Currently, there are several parts of the country that have restrictions on civilian ownership of certain magazines or types of ammunition. Sometimes it is entire states and sometimes local municipalities pass these regulations, which I consider unconstitutional. At any rate, when we encounter these situations it has always been our policy not to sell to anyone in these areas, regardless of what law enforcement or government credentials they offer up. If the laws change and all law abiding citizens can buy these products we would be happy to sell to Law Enforcement, but not before then. Thanks for taking the time to be involved. I wish all firearms would follow your lead.

On Behalf of Larry, Thanks For Your Business,
Eric Ellingson
Contact Center Supervisor
NRA Endowment Member

Perhaps this may or may not be true really, but I wouldn't doubt it. Quite a few companies are doing this.
(02-18-2013, 05:20 PM)Gunnen4u Wrote: [ -> ]Perhaps this may or may not be true really, but I wouldn't doubt it. Quite a few companies are doing this.

Good for Midway. I believe Ronnie Barrett requires military in California to ship to bases in other states as he will not service any product shipped directly from California. I don't think he'll service a California LE weapon regardless of what they do.

For what it's worth, the Colorado County Sheriff's Assn. begged the legislature not to pass the stuff that they're rubber stamping today.

... the Dems plugged their ears ... after all what does a County Sheriff know about dealing with crime?

People are misguided G4U. If you take it too personally you run the risk of becoming irrational yourself. Two of the four bad gun bills going through today were drafted by a state legislator named Rhonda Fields. Her son witnessed a murder. The judicial system in Denver/Arapahoe county failed to protect him. They released his name to the defendant's defense attorney who relayed it to gang members who murdered him, his girl friend and several other witnesses. I feel very badly for her and can't imagine losing a son. But rather than spend her time reforming the system itself, she has chosen to 'target' firearms and their legal owners. It's a bit like trying to outlaw carpentry because a building fell down and crushed your kid.

... I'm trying to think of something that I 'need' from Midway ... unfortunately, it has to be in that smaller subset of things that they still have in stock ... I know I'm frustrating you as I'm not worked up into enough of a froth to want an insurrection ... but would you settle for a modest Midway order?? Gotta love that NRA Roundup. S5
No, I am just categorizing you into "will never draw a line in the sand". That is what this is all really about. Drawing a line that isn't to be crossed. Stop projecting or using red herrings. And I don't see how drawing such a line or talking about it is "irrational". I guess America is really well-trained if they think that.

One person's tragedy isn't an excuse to shit on my freedom. People I tell this to get upset sometimes, but tough shit. The worse tyrants are the tyrants who tug on the heart strings and use their tragedy to regulate you.

I need a case trimmer or two.
Now, you two learn to play nicely, or......................................................
Everyone, every last one of us has their "line in the sand" ... but one size DOES NOT fit all. That's a "liberal interpretation" of humanity. We don't all fit in the same box. Regarding the 'irrational' comment ... I'm suggesting pursuing the right objective, for the right reasons ... at the right time. I'm only illustrating that that's not the path that Ms. Fields has chosen. The other side has chosen a knee-jerk reaction. It would be ill advised to emulate them.

I'll probably pick up some more bore snakes from Midway ... but this looks cool and fun as hell ... and it's only a matter of time before they start banning sharp objects.
Well, they better figure out a size, or else the line in the sand will be drawn at their own convenience, which means likely never.

I have too many knives and hatchets and other implements as it is. I'd get some reloading crap if you could.
(02-18-2013, 07:52 PM)Gunnen4u Wrote: [ -> ]I'd get some reloading crap if you could.

See my list above in earlier post on the order in which stuff goes dry. Lee .223 dies are now all on back order ... I didn't check RCBS but I would expect it's all out as well. You can still probably pick up stuff at various sites for 2-3X the pre-banic price.
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If it's any consolation to you, we're all going to be dead at some point anyway and it's not really going to matter one way or the other now is it?
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