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Quote:http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,15527415,00.html

Germany struggles to tackle lingering anti-Semitism

In a shocking new report, a government commission has found that bigoted Jewish stereotypes are still entrenched in German society. It has claimed that discrimination is an everyday experience for many German Jews.

Youths in Germany have taken to using the word 'Jew' as a curse word, even when their object of scorn isn't Jewish. And, shockingly, the insult "You belong in Auschwitz" is also relatively common.

These findings were revealed Friday in a new report from a panel of experts commissioned by the German government. The experts will in future be regularly called upon to give updates on the status of persistent anti-Semitism in the country.

In their initial report, the experts described a catalogue of discrimination. Whether in private circles, at the pub, on the playground, in a football stadium or online, the report showed anti-Semitism is a fact of life for Jews living in Germany. Although officially illegal in Germany, anti-Semitic sentiment is found in around 20 percent of the population in one form or another, according to the findings.

Latent anti-Semitism

Experts on the panel, including London historian Peter Longerich and Johannes Heil, the head of the Heidelberg College of Jewish Studies, based their research on several recent opinion polls.

According to police statistics those responsible for carrying out 90 percent of anti-Semitic crimes were described as right-wing extremists. They were mainly charged with making provocative comments, desecrating Jewish cemeteries, Holocaust denial and a small number of anti-Semitic assaults.

The report also stated that the impression sometimes claimed by the media, that Muslims or people of Arab descent are behind a large proportion of anti-Semitic attacks, is simply not true. In spite of the ongoing Middle East conflict, the idea that "this group of people has particular cause to spread anti-Semitic propaganda" lacked any scientific evidence.

Behind the times

Seeking to explain their findings, the experts criticized a failure on the part of Germany's state education.

They claimed it's not enough to simply teach children about Jewish persecution under the Nazis and Germany's "special responsibility to Israel." Instead, more emphasis must be placed on the more current manifestations of anti-Semitism associated with the Middle East conflict, Islamism and the financial crisis.

This new insight goes some way to explain why, since the 1970s, the trend of a steady decline in German anti-Semitism hasn't continued. The trend mainly emerged as the generation most influenced by National Socialism was dying out.

Concerns are now focused on the flood of anti-Semitic writing and videos circling the Internet, which are extremely hard to control.

Lacking a cohesive strategy

The report argued that a growing criticism of international financial systems has led to a dangerous re-emergence of old anti-Semitic stereotypes, bemoaning "greedy Jews" and "Jewish conspiracies."

This was backed up by a 2009 study conducted by Bielefeld University, which found that one in five people felt that Jewish people have too much influence in the financial world. Around 40 percent of respondents also held the view that Jews today were still seeking to benefit from Germany's Nazi past.

Although the experts noted considerable efforts to tackle anti-Semitism in Germany, they came to the conclusion that there is no comprehensive strategy in place.

Statistically, Germany is ranked in the middle of the European table in terms of the anti-Semitism problem. However, this ranking would be considerably worse were it not for countries like Poland, Hungary and Portugal, which suffer even higher levels of discrimination.
So does being part of that 20% bother you "Q"?
Good question. To be part of a minority is individualism. When I watched the report on TV, there they named the reasons for anti-semitism as I see them, holocaust fatique; exploitation of the holocaust by Jews born a long time after it, and the shameful politics of the state of Israel. The written article is therefore misinformation in itself. Probably censored by a Jewish group already.
Obviously the inquiry took place in October when 80% of Germans are inebriated! Wouldn't that be your explanation, Q?
There is a difference between anti-semitism and legitimate stereotypes or criticism.
There is no smoke without fire. Jews do have too much influence in banks, and also in culture, notable fine arts, literature, philosophy and cinema.
Try publishing a book or sell art with a name not ending in "berg" or "man" or "feld/field"... and you will see..
Thought suffixes like "baum" and "bloem" realy make it too much hollocaust victims so they don't use those that much.
(01-25-2012, 07:36 PM)Fredledingue Wrote: [ -> ]There is a difference between anti-semitism and legitimate stereotypes or criticism.
There is no smoke without fire. Jews do have too much influence in banks, and also in culture, notable fine arts, literature, philosophy and cinema.
Try publishing a book or sell art with a name not ending in "berg" or "man" or "feld/field"... and you will see..
Thought suffixes like "baum" and "bloem" realy make it too much hollocaust victims so they don't use those that much.

Blame most of that on two things. One is Ashkenazi luck, as the result of inbreeding. But the other is the fault of the European feudal system, which totally excluded Jews from becoming part of the land owning gentry.

Many countries expressly forbid Jews from owning property. As a result, Jews, in order to be successful, had to do it in a monetary, and artistic, sense. That is why so many of them went into banking, precious jewels/metals, and intellectual endeavours . It was the only avenue for success they had available.

That was because the Medieval society was based on the christian religion: Legitimacy was based on wether or not you were christian and you were not excomunicated, all official acts, letters and documents had to be written by th will of God Our Father, the Holly Trinity, the Virgin Mary and one or two saints of your choice to be valid, every official organisation had to be a moreless religious one, the Papal endorsment was as important as a UN resolution, etc
In other words if you were not a christian either by birth, by choice or through excomunication, you were an alien to the civilisation, if not an ennemy.

If Jews were tolerated in Europe all that time, it's because they were culturaly close to other poeple, participated positively in the economic life and never had armies trying to invade the continent.

We were not fair to the jews during all that time, that's a fact. But at this time, poeple felt that they had to protect the christian civilisation with rigorous and sometimes crual methods else they would disapear.
(01-26-2012, 05:28 PM)Fredledingue Wrote: [ -> ]That was because the Medieval society was based on the christian religion: Legitimacy was based on wether or not you were christian and you were not excomunicated, all official acts, letters and documents had to be written by th will of God Our Father, the Holly Trinity, the Virgin Mary and one or two saints of your choice to be valid, every official organisation had to be a moreless religious one, the Papal endorsment was as important as a UN resolution, etc
In other words if you were not a christian either by birth, by choice or through excomunication, you were an alien to the civilisation, if not an ennemy.

If Jews were tolerated in Europe all that time, it's because they were culturaly close to other poeple, participated positively in the economic life and never had armies trying to invade the continent.

We were not fair to the jews during all that time, that's a fact. But at this time, poeple felt that they had to protect the christian civilisation with rigorous and sometimes crual methods else they would disapear.

Nothing could be further from the truth Fred. Christianity's main tenant is 'Love' and 'forgivness'. Jesus taught that non-stop while he was preaching. Those Euros, who professed to be Christians violated their creed by blaming all Jews for the death of Jesus. And Jesus was also a Jew. This is 180 degrees the opposite what followers of the Messiah are taught to practice.

So lets not blame Christianity for all this, but where the Real Blame lies: on the backs/shoulders of Euros refusing to practice what they preached. I believe that the dictionary accurately calls that Hypocrisy.

And remember, Christianity is not responsible for what others do in Christianity's name, if it does not adhere to the teachings of Jesus. This has been used for centuries by atheists and other religions, and it is totally without merit.

I'm not blaming christianity John. I'm not even blaming the poeple of that time who betrayed the Christ's teaching.
Medieval poeple were wrong, but they were humans with all the defects and shortcomings.
What they did against the jews can be explained, albeit not excused, by the fact that the whole society, all the relations between poeple beared the mark of religion one way or another. Then being out of this religion made you an alien even if you lived there for several generations.

These poeple didn't care wether your skin was pale or dark, they didn't care about race, but religion was a red line very often.
They didn't hate the jews because of judaism or because of their race or because of their look or whatever, but for the sole reason that they were not christians and not willing to be christian. And therefore refusing to apply with the common customs of christian rituals but also not recognizing the christian-based social hierarchy. Non-christians were seen as a threat to social cohesion.

Medieval poeple didn't see religion as we see today. Today we see it as mostly a spritual, metaphysical experience and mostly a private activity. In the middle Ages, religion was the material structure of all institutions, even secular ones, and part of the general culture, mixed with secular culture to the point it was hard to know what was realy religious and what was just cultural. These poeple were not fanatical but they lived in a world of symbols, permanently used for all kinds of transaction and demonstrations.
Refusing to make use of the medieval symbolism put the jews in state of incomprehension and danger.

_________

Neo-Nazy ball on the grave of Auschwitz in Austria

French and Belgian far-right deputies attended...
(01-26-2012, 05:51 PM)John L Wrote: [ -> ]Nothing could be further from the truth Fred. Christianity's main tenant is 'Love' and 'forgivness'. Jesus taught that non-stop while he was preaching. Those Euros, who professed to be Christians violated their creed by blaming all Jews for the death of Jesus. And Jesus was also a Jew. This is 180 degrees the opposite what followers of the Messiah are taught to practice.

So lets not blame Christianity for all this, but where the Real Blame lies: on the backs/shoulders of Euros refusing to practice what they preached. I believe that the dictionary accurately calls that Hypocrisy.

And remember, Christianity is not responsible for what others do in Christianity's name, if it does not adhere to the teachings of Jesus. This has been used for centuries by atheists and other religions, and it is totally without merit.

I'm afraid you can't get Christianity out of the tight spot here. S2 Besides, you have done things in your life which do not adhere to the teachings of Jesus, so be careful with the term "hypocrisy". I guess your justification is that the enemy wasn't what America and you wanted him to be, and he didn't want to be converted to capitalism. I can't see any difference to the treatment of Jews by medieval Christianity. It's not so that the USA for most of it's existence was a beacon of pro-semitism, either. Two generations ago, the Jews were still taboo, and American Christianity drove their social marginalisation. Here's a recent poll about anti-semitism in America, the findings are comparable to Europe.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...erica.html
First off, that survey was conducted by the Anti-Defamation League, which has a vested interest in ensuring its own long life and success. The more Jew haters they can come up with, the more funds they can expect from all walks. We must not forget that first.

But getting back to the 'tight spot' you think I am in, check yourself out in the mirror. If human followers are less than perfect, according to you Christianity is fatally flawed and has no right to exist. And since you are also human, and definitely flawed, perhaps you have no right to exist?

Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone "Q".
What a tiresome topic including the reiteration that Jews "control" finances and the arts...heck it's now even thrown at literary pursuits. Some Jews are wealthy but heck so are some Mormons (imagine Romney meets Goldman Sachs) but the persistence of some sorth of "monopoly" is little other than a new version of the so-called "Protocols of Zion". Give everybody a break, the majority of Jews are at best bourgeois and to a great extent "working class". Hell, there are some conspiracy nuts still proclaiming the Rockefellers "Jewish".
(01-29-2012, 02:48 PM)John L Wrote: [ -> ]But getting back to the 'tight spot' you think I am in, check yourself out in the mirror. If human followers are less than perfect, according to you Christianity is fatally flawed and has no right to exist. And since you are also human, and definitely flawed, perhaps you have no right to exist?

Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone "Q".

I don't subscribe to bible quotes. Innocence is no precondition for the right to criticism. Cristianity is fatally flawed and has no right to exist in my mind, if you continue to create god in yours that's up to you, but you'll stay away with that from me, won't you? Your job as a soldier for freedom is to defend my right to attack Christianity whenever I feel like it, isn't it?
Drgonzaga,
There is a difference between "The Jews" and other poeple who happen to be rch and to belong to a sect at the same time.
There are similarities too: They are dangerous should one of the sect take control of a key part of our society or economy. Fortunately jews are various enough not to be a sect like, say, the mormons.

But they are nonetheless pulling different threads at the same time: Being the victims of the Hollocaust make them immune from criticism in the press and in any public talk for at least yet another 20 years.
At the same time they are unable to forget about wether a partner is jewish or not, and in their mind it makes more difference than in our mind.
For most of them you are somebody special if you are also jewsih.
In some case jews have created jews-only corporations, just like in the past. Corporation in the Medieval sens, where several familial businesses gather to make a formal or informal union to protect their interests.

Technicaly mormons are more dangerous because they are on a mission to convert the world. They are unified like a block. Had the mormons a fraction of the position the jews have, I would be panicking.

Jews are like gays: They are not a sect, they are not dangerous, they are not outsiders, but they recognize each other and tend to group in a corporatist way.
Gays follow the same behavior, curiousely also in finance and arts.
Maybe these too sectors are enough disolved that it allow such a thing.