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Russia is in a rather significant population decline according to The Moscow News. The number of reported abortions last year was 1.6 million (they believe there “many more” that go unreported). The number of births, 1.5 million. Compounding the problem, 12 out of every 1,000 babies die before they are one year old, an infant mortality rate five times higher than in Iceland and three to four times higher than in Finland, Sweden, Spain and France.

The news is no better throughout the age spectrum; the average Russian man now dies at 58.8 and for every 1,000 Russians there are 16 deaths and just 10.6 births, a gap that isn’t being filled by immigration. What this amounts to is a population decline of about 750,000 to 800,000 a year.

If this trend continues as is, the nation of 145 million could dwindle to half it's size in the next century. What's the geopolitical impact of a disappearing Russia?
Many (Eastern) European nations also have somehow a very low fertility rate, source: CIA Factbook: Rank Order - Total fertility rate. Part of the socialism hangover, I guess.
socialism makes you impotent?
StereoMike Wrote:socialism makes you impotent?

Are these people impotent?
I think it is an easy chore to document societies that are losing NATIVE population and the relative atheism in each juxtaposed to nations of faith.

All of Europe except Albania has near falling NATIVE populations,Canada does and America's is growing only slowly.

On the other hand,show me another nation across the globe where populations are declining. Can't do it,because only ethnic Europeans have decided there is NO GOD.

Anyone else have an answer for this demographic suicide?

Wealth?? Why do Saudis keep having kids like flies? Russia ain't wealthy,but it's dying,Italy is wealthy,but it's dying.

Technology reducing the need for family labor?

Why do Kuwaitis keep having kids like crazy and people in Dubai?

Geo-political consequences? The Europeans west of Moscow will rue the day Russia collapses. Regardless of Moscow's black sheep qualities,they are a natural shield from millions of Muslims and white sheep Europe,always have been.
StereoMike Wrote:socialism makes you impotent?

Of course! Perhaps not sexually, but certainly from an economic AND social POV.
palladin Wrote:Geo-political consequences?

I'll give you one consequence here. Soon we will be opening up space to exploration and exploitation. If the Europeans do not get with two things: increasing their population AND changing their political economy, there will be very few "so called" white Europeans out there conquering space.

I'll bet that White Supremicists would have a field day over that one.
[Image: _40729788_kazan203afp.jpg]
Tatarstan's capital, Kazan, is home to Europe's biggest mosque. (I wonder if mosques in Istanbul were also compared to this mosque in Kazan?)
Speaking of Kazan, I remember one of the Henry Wardsworth Longfellow works I had to study in college, was "the Siege of Kazan" along with " A Tartar's Song"

Poetry of Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

THE SIEGE OF KAZAN

Black are the moors before Kazan,
And their stagnant waters smell of blood:
I said in my heart, with horse and man,
I will swim across this shallow flood.

Under the feet of Argamack,
Like new moons were the shoes he bare,
Silken trappings hung on his back,
In a talisman on his neck, a prayer.

My warriors, thought I, are following me;
But when I looked behind, alas!
Not one of all the band could I see,
All had sunk in the black morass!

Where are our shallow fords? and where
The power of Kazan with its fourfold gates?
From the prison windows our maidens fair
Talk of us still through the iron grates.

We cannot hear them; for horse and man
Lie buried deep in the dark abyss!
Ah! the black day hath come down on Kazan!
Ah! was ever a grief like this?
Quote:On the other hand,show me another nation across the globe where populations are declining. Can't do it,because only ethnic Europeans have decided there is NO GOD.

I assume some ME populations are falling due to their guerrilla war on the infidels. If countries worshiped Dionysus(sp?) I'd agree with ya but there is not a noticeable trend between religion and fertility (Irish catholics excluded).
Russia's poverty and corruption has much more to do with its dwindling birth rate than socialism. Socialism is not responsible for Europe's low birthrate - the only thing keeping our own birth rate higher than Europe's are blacks and Hispanics.

Actually, I think the population decrease may help Russia in the long-run, by reducing its consumption demands to a point where it can get back on its feet.
One of the most recent defenses of Cuba is their 'wonderful' health care system. The evidence generally used to support the argument is their low reported infant mortality rate. A counter-argument usually cites their appallingly high abortion rate that appears to mirror that of Russia. Not quite approaching half the babies ... but pretty close. Given that parallel ideologies have been so long pursued for so many years to their logical conclusion (poverty, corruption and despair), I find it pretty hard to swallow the Cuban statistics based on the Russian model. The disparity is probably some artifact of the reality that Russians no longer have such a high stake in perpetuating a lie. Any other ideas?
Kamil,
If you look behind the green-roofed building on the picture , you can make out domes of Christian church. Also, Kazan is a birth-place for Volodya Ulyanov, later known as Lenin. His brows aren't Slavic, it's typical Tatar slant. My dad is "black" too. I am "white". I think the problem is exaggerated. A half of Russians aren't Slavs. We shouldn't be afraid of the East.
Actually, I got the image of mosque from BBC article on Putin's visit to Kazan to celebrate the 1000th year of city's founding.
I don't think there is too many countries where you could find any un-mixed people. My grand parents are Mishar Tatars from Penza, Russia, neither they nor their off springs looked any different than typical Russians.
I don't think our ethnic backgrounds determines who we are, but our upbringing and our acceptance of a nationality determines who we are.
I grew up in Turkey, and accepted and was accepted as a Turk. Then we moved to USA, and after some years I accepted and being accepted as an American. My loyalty is toward both Turkey and United States, and I get really disturbed if their relations are not going as smooth as I like. I can imagine children would have similar feeling if they see their parents arguing :roll:

Here is the article from BBC in case you are interested in reading it.
---------------------------------------------
Putin joins Tatarstan festivities
By Steven Eke
BBC News

President Putin is set to join the festivities in the Russian region of Tatarstan, to mark the millennium of its capital city, Kazan.
He will chair a Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS) summit in the city, and is expected to set out a new policy towards the ex-Soviet republics.

But for the leadership of Tatarstan, the summit is more of an opportunity to showcase their republic.

It has managed to peacefully secure unprecedented autonomy from Moscow.

Located some 850km (528 miles) east of Moscow on the Volga river, Tatarstan is also home to a thriving economy.

Strong identity

When President Putin arrives in Kazan, he will see the results of one of Russia's biggest urban regeneration projects.

As part of the millennium celebrations the historical centre of Kazan, including its Kremlin, has been rebuilt.


A new bridge, and Russia's newest metro system, have been completed and opened on time.

Tatarstan, home to almost four million people, has significant oil reserves as well as developed agriculture and heavy industry.

Its leader, Mintimer Shaimiyev, has secured autonomy without provoking Moscow into intervention with demands for independence.

The region has a strong sense of ethnic identity and appreciation of its unique history.

'Make-or-break' summit

Its main people - the Tatars - trace their origins back to a Turkic people, the Volga Bulgars, who built a prosperous and powerful state in the 10th century.

Some 300 years later, it was annexed by the Mongols of the Golden Horde.

Then, as the Golden Horde itself collapsed, a separate Kazan Khanate seceded, only to be annexed by Russia in the middle of the 16th century.

Islam remains important in public life. Kazan is home to an Islamic university and Europe's largest mosque, which was opened earlier this year.

Against this backdrop, Vladimir Putin will chair what is being touted as a make-or-break summit of the CIS.

Russia's foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, said earlier this week that the summit must refocus the CIS towards a social and humanitarian agenda.

It is a frank acknowledgment that the CIS no longer allows Moscow to maintain economic, military or even political influence in the former Soviet republics.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/wo...186204.stm
Kamil My ancestors of grandpa generation were Tatars from Crimea. One of them was a bandit and after his nostrils being torn off he was exiled to Siberia. My grandpa's father died early, and his step-father was Austrian soldier Iosif, who was taken prisoner of war in the WWI.
Thanx for the article. I like Old Beeb's correctness in the expressions like "thriving economy", " developed agriculture" and so on. Aha-aha.
Green Wrote:Kamil My ancestors of grandpa generation were Tatars from Crimea. One of them was a bandit and after his nostrils being torn off he was exiled to Siberia.

Oh, thats nice to have in your family history. S4

Sorry to hear that. I have some depressin' stuff somewhere in my family history too.

At any rate,

Quote:Actually, I think the population decrease may help Russia in the long-run, by reducing its consumption demands to a point where it can get back on its feet.

Would that actually work guys? It just might, bringing it to levels where Russia can support its population and stablise things like Anon said. That is, if Russia isn't ruined or done for in the process.
Quote:Oh, thats nice to have in your family history.
Sorry to hear that. I have some depressin' stuff somewhere in my family history too.
Well, it isn't that depressing because I don't know who/whom to blame. No portrait, you know. Just a curious story. No worries. And your kids will remember just a legend after time-being. Wink1
Anonymous24 Wrote:Russia's poverty and corruption has much more to do with its dwindling birth rate than socialism. Socialism is not responsible for Europe's low birthrate - the only thing keeping our own birth rate higher than Europe's are blacks and Hispanics.

Actually, I think the population decrease may help Russia in the long-run, by reducing its consumption demands to a point where it can get back on its feet.

Anon, you are not looking at the proper 'cause and effect' as you should. Russia's poverty and corruption is a Direct cause of it's 75 year life under Soviet Socialisim, called communism. The corruption was always there, as it always is under socialism. It has to exist, because that is the only means in which things get distributed to those who have the money and means of acquiring what the State is unable to ensure it's citizens.

And the dropping birth rate is NOT GOOD, as you indicate. Here is why. The only way that your hypothesis could work is if the lifespan of the citizens are increasing so as to take up the slack of the working population. The older the person can live, the more productive he/she can be over a lifespan.

Unfortunately, in Russia, the lifespan of the average citizen is declining, not lengthening. Thus your hope of decreasing population is not viable.
There is several reasons for the population decline:
1. Romantic
2. Solid
It's no different than all other ethnic European states. Except Albania and to an extent,France. Italy is even worse,but their lifespans are longer.
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