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I just heard that another yacht was hijacked in the Indian Ocean, this time Danish in origin:Somali Pirates Seize Danish Yacht with Three Children Onboard. Pirates killed four Americans just last week.

Will we ever find a way to halt this? And just how are we really going to influence the pirates, and clean them out, without going in and tearing up Somalia, and getting caught in the Tar Baby once more? Clearly the pirates are not going to be influenced by harsh language, and they will only be emboldened by their ability to extort monies from the relatives of the hostages.

What should we Logically do to put a halt to all this? Should we hire the Russians to do all this for us? They appear to have the best results historically, in putting a halt to kidnapping. Lebanon comes to mind first, when Russians mailed a relatives testicle to the kidnapper as proof of their determination not to give in to their demands. Russia has already had one successful run-in with pirates.
More on pirate handling here, Russians are not the only ones showing such inhuman behavior:

Quote:....
Perhaps Kenya's navy has the answer. Its patrol craft covertly operate a shoot-to-kill, take-no-prisoners policy. The Tanzanians almost certainly do the same. The safest ships of all are flying the Russian flag: armed guards aboard them simply blow pirate boats out of the water and leave any survivors to drown. Attacks on Russian vessels have abruptly ceased.
....
My only problem with blowing them out of the water, or a "no prisoners" approach, does not offer a good lesson to be sent to other potential pirates. I would think a quick trial, and hanging, that was recorded and uploaded onto the internet, would accomplish more. Everyone would know about the actions, and even Somali would because many there still have computers and can get out the world. A graphic testimony would be better IMO, but still a hard line approach to punishment.

Perhaps the hanging, on their own boat, and then taking it to Somali waters and leaving it there for others to see, would also add to the effect.
mv Wrote:More on pirate handling here, Russians are not the only ones showing such inhuman behavior:

Quote:....
Perhaps Kenya's navy has the answer. Its patrol craft covertly operate a shoot-to-kill, take-no-prisoners policy. The Tanzanians almost certainly do the same. The safest ships of all are flying the Russian flag: armed guards aboard them simply blow pirate boats out of the water and leave any survivors to drown. Attacks on Russian vessels have abruptly ceased.
....

This is best course of action - JohnL, no one in the international community would stand for such inhumane actions....hahaha God the West is so pathetically weak.
Yep, I agree -

emulate Russia's course of action regarding the pirates.

Problem solved.
IT's pretty clear that if you raise the cost of capturing Americans, they will cease to target anyone flying the Stars and Stripes. Until then, it's open season.
Notice it is the non-Westerners traditionally, that take common sens actions against piracy.
John L Wrote:My only problem with blowing them out of the water, or a "no prisoners" approach, does not offer a good lesson to be sent to other potential pirates. I would think a quick trial, and hanging, that was recorded and uploaded onto the internet, would accomplish more.
that isn't so easy. cuba is getting real internet access this year, connected to the world by a glass-fibre cable that's being floored now. don't know how long it takes to download from youtube with the old 32kb modems, maybe a month. somalia? no infrastructure, no electricity, illiteracy. maybe a gang leader can read and handle a computer, but i doubt he shares information with his gunmen.
regarding recent happenings in egypt, i expect piracy to spread to the read sea and suez canal soon.
i'm also for blowing them out of the water, but that costs money the shipowners are not prepared to pay. nowadays, the captain of a ship is a westerner, but the skeleton crew is a mix of phillipinos and bangladeshi, cheap but not committed to fight for their cargo. i wouldn't trust them with weapons, anyway. so you would need at least a platoon of warriors on guard day and night on every freighter, and some heavy weaponry. it's cheaper to pay a risk premium to the insurance company.
JohnL Wrote:vMy only problem with blowing them out of the water, or a "no prisoners" approach, does not offer a good lesson to be sent to other potential pirates.
Au contraire. Pirates who do not return send a message by their very absence.
The situation off Somalia might be getting worse in the next few weeks. Most of the countries with a naval presence there are redirecting some of their ships to Libya.
It is not obvious that "naval presence" around Somalia has any effect whatsoever.
The most troubling trend in recent pirate attacks is that they are targeting private individuals rather than the large ships. These larger ship have a bigger payout for the pirates both in ransom and in value of the cargo. These small sailboats ate usually the life savings of many of these civilian cruisers. I don't see where the big payout is for the pirates. The countries of origin are reluctant to pay out ransom and the incidents that I have followed in recent times have all ended badly for the pirates. Typically the commercial vessels will pay the ransom and insurance covers the loss. This is a subject near to my heart so I have been paying some attention to it.
Most of the civilian yachts(I hate to call sailboats yachts it implies wealth when really they are small rv's that float) do not carry firearms because many of the countries that they visit do not allow firearms or they have very restrictive requirements on checking them in and out at the port of entry.
quadrat Wrote:.....i'm also for blowing them out of the water, but that costs money the shipowners are not prepared to pay. nowadays, the captain of a ship is a westerner, but the skeleton crew is a mix of phillipinos and bangladeshi, cheap but not committed to fight for their cargo. i wouldn't trust them with weapons...

I do not know much about large cargo ships, just my opinion.

I agree, ordinary crew members of cargo ships should not be armed. No firearms.

But what about weapons like teargas and teasers for the captain and officers on the bridge?

It is not so easy to enter such big cargo ships, if the crew is watching carefully out to all sides. Additional surveillance cameras also might be useful.

What you really need are powerful water canons to all sides and these pirates and their boats are gone.

And even when pirates are on the shipdeck already, it should not be possible for them to enter the bridge and the machine room easily and even with pirates on board such a cargoship should not stop but to continue its course.

About small private individuals on holidays with little yachts, I really do not feel sorry for them. They are crazy to enter deliberately such a dangerous area. Their risk.
quadrat Wrote:.....i'm also for blowing them out of the water, but that costs money the shipowners are not prepared to pay. nowadays, the captain of a ship is a westerner, but the skeleton crew is a mix of phillipinos and bangladeshi, cheap but not committed to fight for their cargo. i wouldn't trust them with weapons...

I do not know much about large cargo ships, just my opinion.

I agree, ordinary crew members of cargo ships should not be armed. No firearms.

But what about weapons like teargas and teasers for the captain and officers on the bridge?

It is not so easy to enter such big cargo ships, if the crew is watching carefully out to all sides. Additional surveillance cameras also might be useful.

What you really need are powerful water canons to all sides and these pirates and their boats are gone.

And even when pirates are on the shipdeck already, it should not be possible for them to enter the bridge and the machine room easily and even with pirates on board such a cargoship should not stop but to continue its course.

About small private individuals on holidays with little yachts, I really do not feel sorry for them. They are crazy to enter deliberately such a dangerous area. Their risk.
John L Wrote:I just heard that another yacht was hijacked in the Indian Ocean, this time Danish in origin:

Somali Pirates Seize Danish Yacht with Three Children Onboard

Pirates killed four Americans

It's a big difference if you MUST go there while working on a commerical cargoship or if you go there just for fun as a holiday maker.

This zone around Somalia shold be declared as off-limit for such questionable adventure trips.

If you go there with a little boat and 3 children on it you are crazy - you should be arrested and your boat should be confiscated.
John L Wrote:I just heard that another yacht was hijacked in the Indian Ocean, this time Danish in origin:

Somali Pirates Seize Danish Yacht with Three Children Onboard

Pirates killed four Americans

It's a big difference if you MUST go there while working on a commerical cargoship or if you go there just for fun as a holiday maker.

This zone around Somalia shold be declared as off-limit for such questionable adventure trips.

If you go there with a little boat and 3 children on it you are crazy - you should be arrested and your boat should be confiscated.
Yohan, unfortunately, the pirates are operating much further out. Most of the hijacked vessels are in the Indian Ocean, and in places at random.

Also, the neighboring countries will be punished as a result. To me, it would be best to actively go after these pirates anywhere, and everywhere, in order to eradicate it.

And finally, perhaps NATO, or some other entity, should spend less effort in places like Libya, and concentrate on something that everyone(with exception of the pirates) agrees should be eliminated. And that also includes going into Somalia and cleaning out the riffraff, as an example.
Yohan, unfortunately, the pirates are operating much further out. Most of the hijacked vessels are in the Indian Ocean, and in places at random.

Also, the neighboring countries will be punished as a result. To me, it would be best to actively go after these pirates anywhere, and everywhere, in order to eradicate it.

And finally, perhaps NATO, or some other entity, should spend less effort in places like Libya, and concentrate on something that everyone(with exception of the pirates) agrees should be eliminated. And that also includes going into Somalia and cleaning out the riffraff, as an example.
John L Wrote:.....To me, it would be best to actively go after these pirates anywhere, and everywhere, in order to eradicate it.

And finally, perhaps NATO, or some other entity, should spend less effort in places like Libya, and concentrate on something that everyone(with exception of the pirates) agrees should be eliminated. And that also includes going into Somalia and cleaning out the riffraff, as an example.

I was merely talking about what a cargo ship could do when being attacked and trying to escape.

To hunt down these pirates is not the job of a cargo-ship crew.

This requires strong military action, and in Somalia is nothing, which might turn out to be a business in the future. - Politicians do not care much about a few cargo ships and about a few private yachts...
John L Wrote:.....To me, it would be best to actively go after these pirates anywhere, and everywhere, in order to eradicate it.

And finally, perhaps NATO, or some other entity, should spend less effort in places like Libya, and concentrate on something that everyone(with exception of the pirates) agrees should be eliminated. And that also includes going into Somalia and cleaning out the riffraff, as an example.

I was merely talking about what a cargo ship could do when being attacked and trying to escape.

To hunt down these pirates is not the job of a cargo-ship crew.

This requires strong military action, and in Somalia is nothing, which might turn out to be a business in the future. - Politicians do not care much about a few cargo ships and about a few private yachts...
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