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From Haaretz News
Quote:Israel-Turkey diplomatic crisis nears its end
Turkish sources say two rounds of talks between Israeli, Turkish officials have been 'very positive'; Israel has agreed in principle to apologize and pay compensation for the Gaza flotilla incident.
By Barak Ravid
Tags: Turkey Recep Tayyip Erdogan Gaza flotilla
Israel and Turkey are close to agreeing on a document that will let them put an end to the crisis in their relations. The results of two rounds of talks between the two sides in Geneva have been "very positive" and discussions will continue, Turkish diplomatic sources say.

Israel's representative on the UN panel investigating the Gaza-bound flotilla incident, Yosef Ciechanover, met for the second time on Monday with senior Turkish diplomat Feridun Sinirlioglu. The discussions centered around a formula that would have Israel apologize for the incident and arrange for compensation for the dead and injured Turkish citizens.

Haaretz has learned that the two sides have agreed to present their ideas to prime ministers Benjamin Netanyahu and Recep Tayyip Erdogan to receive further instructions. More discussions are due between legal experts on both sides.

Israel agreed in principle to apologize and pay compensation, and the Turks agreed that if these two aspects are adhered to they would "normalize" relations with Israel and return their ambassador to Tel Aviv.

Nonetheless, both the apology and compensation remain problematic from legal and political perspectives.

A European diplomat familiar with the discussions said the apology is the toughest of the two issues. The two sides are trying to find a formula that would let Erdogan claim that the statement was an apology, but for Netanyahu to argue that it was not - only an expression of appreciation for Turkey's assistance in putting out the fires in the Carmel region.
Link: http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-de...d-1.329232
Why should they apologize for protecting their borders?
Quote:UN says Israeli soldiers committed summary executionsAustralian News.Net
Wednesday 22nd September, 2010


UN experts have determined that the Israeli raid on a so-called peace flotilla was overly violent and totally illegal.

The Human Rights Council has said Israel's military response to the Gaza aid sail was "disproportionate and brutal," violating international law.

The special UN panel said there was now clear evidence to support prosecutions against Israel for wilful killing and torture.

In its scathing report, the panel rejected an argument by Israel that activists on the aid ship had turned violent, thereby justifying the actions of Israeli soldiers when they opened fire.

The UN Human Rights Council panel said Israel's military had used unnecessary violence to commit grave violations of human rights law and international humanitarian law.

It said that the Israeli shootings were "consistent with summary execution."

A 56-page document released by the UN says that Israel's naval blockade of the Palestinian territory was also unlawful because of the humanitarian crisis there.

The report said: "The conduct of the Israeli military and other personnel towards the flotilla passengers was not only disproportionate to the occasion but demonstrated levels of totally unnecessary and incredible violence. A series of violations of international law were committed by the Israeli forces during the interception of the flotilla and during the detention of passengers in Israel prior to deportation."

The panel concluded that a humanitarian crisis existed in Gaza on the day of the incident, making the Israeli blockade unlawful.

The Israeli Foreign Ministry has responded by saying the Human Rights Council had a "biased, politicized and extremist approach."

Israel did not cooperate with the panel and is awaiting a report from a separate UN group under New Zealand's former Prime Minister Geoffrey Palmer and Colombia's former President Alvaro Uribe, who are yet to report their findings.

Israel soldiers shot and killed eight Turkish activists and one Turkish-American aboard the Mavi Marmara on May 31 as it was sailing toward Gaza.
Link: http://www.australiannews.net/story/688479

I guess the trick to improve relations between these two countries is somehow to apolagize and pay compenstations in the Turkish eyes, and without doing so in the Israeli eyes Shock
Sounds like a Jackass compromise to me.
If they admit fault here and now, then they will no longer be able to intercept any other "relief" vessels coming into their waters.
And has anyone put up a good argument that the ones "executed" didn't deserve it?
ghoullio Wrote:If they admit fault here and now, then they will no longer be able to intercept any other "relief" vessels coming into their waters.

Excellent point.
John L Wrote:
ghoullio Wrote:If they admit fault here and now, then they will no longer be able to intercept any other "relief" vessels coming into their waters.
Excellent point.
No, that's not true. Nothing will prevent them to do it again and again if all it takes is an appology and a little bit of money.

Israel doesn't ought to apologize but it should for diplomatic reasons.
Fredledingue Wrote:
John L Wrote:
ghoullio Wrote:If they admit fault here and now, then they will no longer be able to intercept any other "relief" vessels coming into their waters.
Excellent point.
No, that's not true. Nothing will prevent them to do it again and again if all it takes is an appology and a little bit of money.

Israel doesn't ought to apologize but it should for diplomatic reasons.

Fred, I didn't mean that literally.
Latest news on this issue from The Jerusalem Post

Quote:'Israel, Turkey disagree over flotilla apology wording'
By JPOST.COM STAFF AND HERB KEINON
12/09/2010 16:25


Mediation talks over 'Mavi Marmara' incident reportedly stall over difference of opinion: Ankara wants "apology" whereas Israel wants to "express regret" over death of 9 Turks in May 31 raid.

Israeli and Turkish representatives in mediation talks between the two countries have reportedly disagreed on an apology statement regarding the Mavi Marmara incident. AFP reported, however, that the "parties wish to start a clean slate."

Sources quoted in the report said that while Turkey was looking for apologetic wording, Israel is willing only to "express regret" over the May 31 flotilla raid which resulted in the death of nine Turks.
Link: http://www.jpost.com/International/Artic...?id=198772
Kamil Wrote:Latest news on this issue from The Jerusalem Post

Quote:'Israel, Turkey disagree over flotilla apology wording'
By JPOST.COM STAFF AND HERB KEINON
12/09/2010 16:25


Mediation talks over 'Mavi Marmara' incident reportedly stall over difference of opinion: Ankara wants "apology" whereas Israel wants to "express regret" over death of 9 Turks in May 31 raid.

Israeli and Turkish representatives in mediation talks between the two countries have reportedly disagreed on an apology statement regarding the Mavi Marmara incident. AFP reported, however, that the "parties wish to start a clean slate."

Sources quoted in the report said that while Turkey was looking for apologetic wording, Israel is willing only to "express regret" over the May 31 flotilla raid which resulted in the death of nine Turks.
Link: http://www.jpost.com/International/Artic...?id=198772

What they are really saying is that Israel wants a compromise, and Turkey wants a Jackass Compromise.
And naturally the Islamic "Jackass compromise" wins out in the modern land of moderate Islam.
Lines in the sand. What do they mean? One can hardly call Erdoğan a jackass in the US sense. He plays his own brand of local power politics and nationalism, completely disconnected from US "progressivism".
(09-02-2011, 05:31 PM)jt Wrote: [ -> ]Lines in the sand. What do they mean? One can hardly call Erdoğan a jackass in the US sense. He plays his own brand of local power politics and nationalism, completely disconnected from US "progressivism".

Actually, I was tying the recent events with my earlier post(#11), from last year, where I stated that Israel wanted a compromise, but the Turks wanted a 'Jackass' compromise. The meaning is that the Turks wish to call it a compromise, but have the other side make all the concessions. And that is exactly what they are demanding here.

Turks sacked the Israeli ambassador:
Israeli rabbi pairs gays to lesbians

Ehhh... No, sorry, ... here is the link S2
The latest from BBC News
Quote:Turkey expels Israeli ambassador over Gaza flotilla row
Turkey has expelled Israel's ambassador and suspended all military agreements over its refusal to apologise for last year's raid on a Gaza-bound flotilla.
This came as the UN published a report saying that Israeli commandos used excessive force when they boarded an aid ship. Nine Turkish activists died.
Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu said it was "time Israel pays a price for its illegal actions".
Israel has refused to apologise and said its troops acted in self-defence.
"Israel, like any other country, has a legitimate right to protect its citizens and soldiers," an Israeli government official told the BBC.
The report was leaked to the New York Times on Thursday, the day before it was delivered to UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon's office.
"The secretary general's idea was to help bring these two countries back together again. He deeply regrets the fact that this has not been possible through this report," said deputy UN spokesman Eduardo del Buey.
"I imagine he will want time to read the report, to discuss it with his officials and then take a decision as to future steps."
US state department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland said Washington hoped Turkey and Israel "will continue to look for opportunities to improve their longstanding relationship, and we will encourage both to work towards that end", according to the AFP news agency
.
Rest of the story at http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14762475
Israel is always the ones having to make all the concessions. It's never going to change. In a different thread awhile back Gunnen described how the Arabs only respect a strong attitude. They perceive "diplomacy" as a weakness and he's right. 100% right. They've always looked at the world that way. If Israel takes a soft stand on this without holding out for what they need/want, they will look weak and in the Arab mind, that's a good thing. Something to use as thinking Israel is caving. A chink in the armor you might say. Revenge even.

We are always tying Israel's hands too. Then again, we put ourselves in a tight spot. On one hand we want to win the hearts of the Arabs (never going to happen - my father said so all his life) and remain friends and allies with Israel.

Middle East peace is a joke. They hate each other, they hate the Jews, and they hate us. The only way they're going to get peace there is to want it themselves. But with each country run by religious nuts and hot heads, I just don't see it ever happening.
I have to wonder why we're so attached to Israel anymore? I mean, I admire their spunk and panache for certain and love betting on them for the races, but we seem to take our relationship on a pseudo-religious level with tons of zionist donation campaigns and stuff.
Tait,

I have long held that the support for Israel from the USA is way more animated by Christians than Jews. Not that Jews don't support Israel, of course 99% do.

There just aren't that many relative to all the Protestant Christians in the USA and a majority of the Prots have a skewed view of Christian eschatology( IMO) and honestly believe God is going to turn back to ethnic Israel as His "people to rule" as in the olden days and as such, they are for protecting Israel.

I'm like you, I respect Israel and hold no hostility to them, but, I wouldn't lift a finger more to preserve modern Israel than I would modern Burma or Switzerland.

Just for the sake of accuracy, I also wouldn't lift a finger to preserve the UK or France either.

I will hand this to Israel, they haven't yet had a few hundred thousand dead yankees fighting their cause either.
I'm just tired of the hypocrisy on display by most of the world. Before the Holocaust nobody gave a damn about those 'evil Jooos'. After it was discovered that six millions Ashkenazis allowed themselves to be marched to gas chambers, firing squads, etc, the world developed a short lived case of guilt. Well that didn't last all that long, did it? After all, playing a surface role so others will think one is charitable, only goes so far.

Now it's back to the Usual 'evil Jooo' mantra. Now, its the poor, downtrodden, innocent as babes in swaddling clothing, Palestinians.
"Oh, aren't they so cute,aren't they so cute
throwing all those stones and doing what adolescents do best? After all, they are just venting their frustration at being treated like second class citizens, and not allowed to obliterate those 'evil Jooos'."

Pardon me while I throw up.
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