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Full Version: An inspiration for 9/11?
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just watched a docu about famous criminal cases of history, jack the ripper, manson, mittermayer, the reichtag blaze (fits to the headline too), and litvinenko. the most expensiv poisoning in history, the polonium in his body is worth $ millions. i wonder what they did with the corpse. shortly before the poisoning, litvinenko stated that yeltsin, putin, and the fsb staged the apartment bombings in russia in 1999 in order to justify the second chechnya war, and in the end, to bring putin to power. according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_apa...ite_note-7 he is not the only one with this conspiracy theory, and there is solid evidence to back them.
Interesting idea. But why all the effort? Everyone knows how much the Europeans love living under the iron fists of dictators. Some of the greatest madmen in history have been European, especially German. Considering how well Soviet Russians did under Communism, you would think they would happily accept Putins authority.

Maybe he just wanted an excuse to kill those nasty Chechnyans? Europeans usually need a minority ethnic people to pick on to feel superior.
He needed an excuse to kill of Chechens?
Here's the thing about the Chechens. They always attacked the police and military,not civilians in Russia proper.

The Kurd PPK is like this,too.

Then,suddenly,the Chechens go explode a Russian apartment building? For what? To make Russians mad?

I always felt that was a setup. The Chechens didn't do business that way.

Theoretically it could have been Chechens,but,that just isn't their MO and the result of that have been nothing but negative for Chechnya.

So,who benefitted? Putin? Yes. Doesn't mean he was behind it,but,it should make anyone skeptical. Until then the Chechens only wanted to seperate from Russia,not attack Russian citizens in Russia. Also,Chechens back then were NOT part of an international jihad as they've become today.
Regardless of their origins, they were most certainly present when Beslan happened.

I still lose sleep over that massacre.
True,but,Beslan happened way later.

Let's imagine the US civil war for an example. By 1865,40% of every male in the south was dead,the society down here was exhausted and poor as hell by then,many wives were w/o their husbands.

The soldiers under Lee suggested he surrender and then they would join a rebellious guerilla movement and carry on the fight with irregular and unlawful methods.

what IF they had? Lee said don't go that route,but,what IF he had not?

Even with a Christian culture,I am quite positive murder and terrorism would have been a prominent feature of the southern landscape. It was to a lesser extent anyway with the KKK.

So,why wouldn't Chechens become nihilists after their treatment by the Russki? We in the south did for a while and it was widely tolerated,too.

The KKK was not looked down on until after the 1960s.

The Chechens have as much right to govern themselves as the Russki do and the fanaticism of the Chechen Islamic folks wasn't present when they initially wanted independence.
Lee knew he was licked and that fighting a guerilla war would only destroy the South completely. He knew better that the South would pay the cost for his pride. He still died a POW, stripped of all lands and under house arrest.

The comparison for Putin and Lincoln are incredibly apt now that I think about it.
Also, we bore the burden of independence without succumbing to the cold blooded murder of little children.
Quote:Here's the thing about the Chechens. They always attacked the police and military,not civilians in Russia proper.

The Kurd PPK is like this,too.

PKK always attacked civilians including Kurds. Their main targets were teachers, shopkeepers and businessmen.
Just two months ago a bomb placed on a bus route and exploded remotely killed 6 Kurdish Farm Workers and injured several others. PKK refused to accept the responsibility for it, until it was proven without any doubts that PKK was responsible for it. Then PKK accepted the responsibility and publicly reprimanded the responsible parties.
Chechens routinely attacked civilians. Local non-Chechens were killed, driven away, or enslaved (in direct sense). They also attacked non-military targets beyond Chechnya (there was a hospital takeover in the 1st Chechen war, for example).

They also routinely killed other Chechens (clan animosities).

This does not make you wrong, attacking apartment buildings still does not fit the pattern and served Putin more than them. And, incidentally, Putin did need an excuse to resume the war: there was a peace treaty at the time. It was broken by Chechens repeatedly, but only in small ways, so to restart the war Putin needed something new and atypically bad from the Chechens.
I used to symphatize with Chechen rebels until the Beslan Massacre.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_scho...age_crisis
The Chechens Modus Operandi was not to mess with ethnic Russian civilians. I should have made that clear.

The apartment attack violated that idea.

I personally know an ethnic Russian lady who lives here in Oak Ridge whose family lived in Chechnya before the breakup of the USSR and she told me it got scary for Russki in Chechnya after the breakup,so she left.

I am not so sure that is unjust,what business did ethnic Russki ever have in the region? Stalin put them there and he put them in the Crimea and the Ukraine,the central Asian states and the Baltic states,it's not surprising they are not welcome.

The later terrorism of the Chechens,while inexcusable as it is among the Palestinian Arabs,is not totally shocking,humans act that way after a while.

What would black Americans be doing right now if we treated them like 1920 still? Be docile? I don't think so.

What would Jews be doing in Europe if Hitler's idea still reigned? After a while,people act up when getting fuc.ked.

Doesn't excuse the extremism,but,it does explain some of it. For example, some Jews after WWII went around murdering alleged Nazis in Germany.

May have been they murdered some who weren't guilty,that's the way vigilantism works.
Palladin Wrote:What would Jews be doing in Europe if Hitler's idea still reigned?
rot? wasn't that the idea according to the official historiography? that would restrain their urge to commit terrorist acts. don't you think the same about muslims?
Palladin Wrote:The Chechens Modus Operandi was not to mess with ethnic Russian civilians. I should have made that clear.

The apartment attack violated that idea.

The idea is wrong. Chechens indeed made it scary for local Russians (who, incidentally, inhabited lowlands of Chechnya for very long time, generations), but not only. Here is an amusing but not atypical story.


Quote: I am not so sure that is unjust,what business did ethnic Russki ever have in the region? Stalin put them there and he put them in the Crimea and the Ukraine,the central Asian states and the Baltic states,it's not surprising they are not welcome.

Wrong here. in all cases, Russian presence predates Stalin, by decades or centuries. Lowland population in the North of Chechnya is essentially native. I would not go into details, but look things up before stating.

Now, I have to admit being generally sympathetic with national liberations. Two problems with Chechnya, however: (1)they essentially had their independence after the 1st war and did not use it wisely (2) they became involved in bigger intrigues (World Wide Caliphate as well as New World Order) so Putin did not have much of an option but crash them.

Quote:What would Jews be doing in Europe if Hitler's idea still reigned?

be a remote memory, and not for long.
MV,

I know they were mean to local Russki,I meant to Russki in Russia. I know one personally here in OR who left out of fear from Chechnya around 1990.