AI-Jane Political, And Economic Forums

Full Version: Et tu, Turkey?
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.
Fox News on tube mentioned about an hour ago that wikileaks will publish some docs connecting Turkey with AQ. Form of deniable pressure on Turkey?
I'd have to have a lot of evidence to believe they would mess with the nutters.

Turkey has been a pretty secular place for a century.
Some of the so called proofs of Turkish involvement with the AQ are listed by Wikileaks as:
Quote:One of the reports mentioned by Al Hayat is an intelligence cable that appears to have been sent by an American intelligence agency. The cable says: “Large amounts of water have arrived from Turkey, large waves will hit Baghdad in a few hours. Some people are widening the irrigation canals.”

This message is believed to refer to the arrival of weapons from Turkey, that were intended for terror and warfare in Baghdad. Al Hayat also says that the WikiLeaks documents show that ammunition seized in a terrorist's apartment in Iraq in 2009 bore the markings “made in Turkey.”
Turkey in the past has threatened opening all the dams in Southern Turkey at the same time to flood Baghdad under 10ft of water. I think that threat was used first time during Saddam era, when he mentioned bombing of a dam in Turkey. I don't think that message means shipment of arms. Turkey had to release some water from dams this year due to excess rains.

As far as weapons or ammunition made in Turkey, AQ has weapons from almost every country in the world. If that is used to judge involvement of a country, than USA was involved in the assassination of a Catholic Priest and an Armenian Journalist in Turkey. The captured weapons from assassins came from USA and were issued to Iraqi Kurds by the USA military.
They also allegedly have cables that show we helped the PKK as well. I bet money in both instances they are threats and not real activities. Tit for tat threats.
Kamil Wrote:Turkey in the past has threatened opening all the dams in Southern Turkey at the same time to flood Baghdad under 10ft of water.
As the memory of the Deluge is still fresh in the minds of these poeple that must have hit a sensible cord.
Kamil Wrote:Turkey in the past has threatened opening all the dams in Southern Turkey at the same time to flood Baghdad under 10ft of water. I think that threat was used first time during Saddam era, when he mentioned bombing of a dam in Turkey. I don't think that message means shipment of arms. Turkey had to release some water from dams this year due to excess rains.
i don't think that would work well. it's not so that if they release some water, that it miraculously builds up tsunami-like in baghdad 500 miles or so downstream, but the wave is largest were it originates, in turkey. only the tigris, which is not a mighty river, flows from turkey to iraq, touching the border with syria for some way. the even smaller euphrates first crosses syria (which would not be amused, and they have nucular weapons), and does not flow trough baghdad. secondly, the dams are strung along the tigris and its tributaries, you can open as many as you wish, what counts is the release of the dam nearest to iraq. you also need the water dearly, to irrigate and electrify wild anatolia.
That river looked pretty damn big when I was standing next to it.

But yes, Quad makes sense. It is a fun idea though.
The idea was used in the Belisarius cycle by Flint and Weber (I think).
The series of Sci-fi type novels?
Yep. A pretty good one too, albeit little to do with "Science"... more "Military Fantasy".
I have not done any research on the subject, I'm just repeating what was said by some Turkish officials when Saddam threatened to bomb some dams in Turkey.
However, when I look at the geograhy of the area where Turkey has 22 large dams built since 1990s. Where, just partially filling of Ataturk Dam took 75% of the Euphrates River waters for 3 weeks, and seeing that in the years with good snow pack and rains large parts of Iraq gets flloded or very close to flooding. I think releasing water from 22 dams located about 5,000ft above sea level, would not help Baghdat and surrounding areas that are less than 200ft above sea level.
I think it'll be more devastating to simply allow no major river river to flow into Iraq.
I think that is harder to do than flooding the areaS1

When Ataturk dam was empty, they could have completely shut down Euphrates river for over a month to fill it, but now all the 22 dams are almost filled to capacity.

There is another problem facing Iraq, it is salination of their lakes and lands. Looks like their lands don't get flushed enough by by fresh water to prevent salination.

in the near future investments in the desalination projects might be a good idea.
Gunnen4u Wrote:That river looked pretty damn big when I was standing next to it.

But yes, Quad makes sense. It is a fun idea though.
that's because you have been in bone-dry areas of the world for too long. tigris and euphrates combined don't rival rhine or danube, let alone rivers of the tropics. although pretty short, chao praya and irrawady in this part carry enourmous volumes of water, the mekong is here, and the mighty brahmaputra not far off either. iraq has a couple of dams of its own along the tigris, they could cope with additional run-off from turkey for some time.
Kamil Wrote:I think that is harder to do than flooding the areaS1

When Ataturk dam was empty, they could have completely shut down Euphrates river for over a month to fill it, but now all the 22 dams are almost filled to capacity.

There is another problem facing Iraq, it is salination of their lakes and lands. Looks like their lands don't get flushed enough by by fresh water to prevent salination.

in the near future investments in the desalination projects might be a good idea.
---------------

That is a classic problem of arid areas. The soil is getting more saline for each year. Not so easy to handle, it is more like you have to live with the problem.

Look at the Dead Sea for example. It is getting more saline for each year due to salty water flowing into the sea. It is a question of time until when it will be possible to 'walk' on the salt crust on the lake.

/track_snake
the jordan river isn't particularly salty. it's waters don't reach the dead sea anymore because the israelis divert it for some fancy irrigation projects, causing an unprecetented environmental catastrophe. without inflow, we are soon to know how deep the deepest depression on earth really is.
quadrat Wrote:the jordan river isn't particularly salty. it's waters don't reach the dead sea anymore because the israelis divert it for some fancy irrigation projects, causing an unprecetented environmental catastrophe. without inflow, we are soon to know how deep the deepest depression on earth really is.
---------------------------

It isn't particularly salty but the erosion of surrounding land makes it carry some salt. There is a net addition of the salt content in the Dead Sea every year.

A Global Cooling event - where precipitation in the area increase - might be the only thing that can save the Dead Sea now.

/track_snake
I wasn't aware that Syria had nuclear weapons, Quadrat. I really don't think Israel would allow that to happen.
The treath of building one is the most effective nuclear weapon. (Real ones are of little use realy).