Poll: Will Rumsfeld keep his job until November?
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On possible Rumsfeld's resignation
#21
I'm afraid you are right, Al Jazeera is now showing programs on the psychological effects/traumas on the prisoners and their families, and other programs about the corruption of the US. You have no idea how they are taking full advantage of this situation, I was thinking though where was Al Jazeera when Saddam and his regime did worse than what the few American soldiors did? we(Iraqis) reached out for help to the Arab world for years, they keep referring to him as the ex Iraqi president, PLEASE give us a break, I really wish the Arabs can pick up on this,
Umhasan, a free Iraqi woman
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#22
"How many minor failures do we need to add up to one big mother? I mean - we've had a lot of minor failures as of late - don't you think?"

Yeah, but you need to repeat the same scandal twice to convince people that there's something more at work than 'isolated incidents'.
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#23
Well if there is anything to be said for Americans torturing Arabs - and the Arab press showing this over and over again to their public - it might be that someone will start to think - hey...we do that to ourselves so how are we any different than those barbarous Americans?

In that part of the world there could be a problem with shinning too much light on a subject, like maybe they will start to see themselves a little differently.
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#24
Quote:Yeah, but you need to repeat the same scandal twice to convince people that there's something more at work than 'isolated incidents'.

Like even more pictures of abuse? I'm not so sure - you don't have to repeat yourself when there are so many new ones cropping up almost daily...if you have a new scandal of the week, that will add up just as fast. Why do you think most Iraqis want the US out of there? Because we don't like flowers being tossed at our feet?
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#25
In other words Murdok, to you jawalking is the equivalent armed robbery. Take a look at what the US did in the way of humiliation and what Saddam's boys did to their own olympic team. Or are you saying that we used electricity on their genitals, raped their wives in front of them, put a gun to the head of their children, cut off body parts while they screamed.

I can't in honesty say that some pictures of undressed arabs put in compromising positions is somehow as bad as the list of "normal" tortures attributed to Saddam (and other Arab nations). The Arab nations must be chortling in their chairs while they watch us carry out a "mea culpe" and wring our hands.

Its not even close to a credible assertion.
"I detest the man who hides one thing in the depths of his heart and speaks forth another"
-Homer
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#26
Murdok Wrote:Why do you think most Iraqis want the US out of there?
Where did you get it from? All local Iraqi polls I've read about show the opposite.
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#27
There is no "there" there.

Saddam's WMD have been found
Quote:New evidence unveils chemical, biological, nuclear, ballistic arms - Posted: April 26, 2004

New evidence out of Iraq suggests the U.S. effort to track down Saddam Hussein's missing weapons of mass destruction is having better success than is being reported.

Key assertions by the intelligence community widely judged in the media and by critics of President Bush as having been false are turning out to have been true after all.

But this stunning news has received little attention from the major media, and the president's critics continue to insist that "no weapons" have been found.

In virtually every case -- chemical, biological, nuclear and ballistic missiles -- the United States has found the weapons and the programs that the Iraqi dictator successfully concealed for 12 years from U.N. weapons inspectors.
So there is no need to demand firings of liars, is there? The only liars were the "useful idiots" who sided with the terrorists to claim the U.S. administration was wrong, suppressing evidence, and lying. Joe Wilson's own book says that Iraq sent Muhammed Saeed al-Sahaf to Niger in search of Uranium yellow-cake, which is exactly what the forged document said. The forger tried to make some money by selling a bogus document, but it happened to be true, just like MI6 and the Mossad told us it was.

the other part concerning the prisoner abuse is all about the pictures. The information about the investigations has been going on since February of last year and was released to the Senate, the House, and to the Media. As the investigations bore on and the perpetrators were called to task for it, everybody seemed to be pleased that we were doing the right thing. Now these old pictures have come out and resurrected the scandal. Let's lay it out fairly. Since Kerry, and all the politicos calling for Rumsfield's head had all this information in their own hands but chose not to do anything more about it, shouldn't we call for their heads as well? Rumsfield may be head of the Pentagon, but so are they. He answers to them and did at the time.

The Red Cross was totally in the know about all this as well. They were contemporaneous witnesses of the entire investigation and I don't recall any flares going off.
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#28
Wm Lambert, I am in total agreement with you. As for the other two gentelmen who opposed you, please stay focused on our American reputation in the Middle East and keep the Democrats, ellections, and the rest of this speil out for now.
Umhasan, a free Iraqi woman
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#29
umhasan, the Democrats aren't going to pull out of Iraq. Most likely, policy in Iraq will follow the same course no matter if Bush or Kerry is elected.
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#30
Thank you, that's good to know.
In my opinion, it's better if Bush continues what he started, he will have 2 years experience by November which will give him more knowledge of what to do in Iraq.
Umhasan, a free Iraqi woman
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#31
I agree with anonymous, its being used as an election year ploy, nothing else.
"I detest the man who hides one thing in the depths of his heart and speaks forth another"
-Homer
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#32
Here is your confirmation: DNC actually started a petition to fire Rumsfeld.

This guarantees that Rumsfeld stays (can I take back my vote and the original post?)

Additionally, Rumsfeld seems to have 69%:20% poll support, including 58% support among the Democrats.
Government is necessary because people left unchecked will do evil.

The government is composed of people left unchecked


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#33
It's worth noting that support for Rumsfeld has dropped ten points since you posted that, and will probably drop more once(if) the other photos are released.
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#34
Your thinking in a vacuum. Add the variable of what happened to Berg and think about it.
"I detest the man who hides one thing in the depths of his heart and speaks forth another"
-Homer
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#35
What do you mean by the 'variable of what happened to Berg'? I think that'll scare people more than it will strengthen their resolve. I'm not sure what you mean by 'my thinking is in a vacuum' either. My thinking is based on sound logic: the more this scandal drags on, the more it seems Rumsfeld's popularity goes down, and if the other photos are released, this scandal will get a lot worse.
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#36
LOL, not in this life. The criticisms you seem to gleefully point at Rumsfeld (criticisms without any basis in fact I might add) will also be muted by a perspective on the type of animals we have to deal with.
"I detest the man who hides one thing in the depths of his heart and speaks forth another"
-Homer
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#37
Baldar Wrote:LOL, not in this life. The criticisms you seem to gleefully point at Rumsfeld (criticisms without any basis in fact I might add) will also be muted by a perspective on the type of animals we have to deal with.

This depends on how the media plays it. Right now most networks are basically suppressing the story. Talk radio reports it all right, of course.
Government is necessary because people left unchecked will do evil.

The government is composed of people left unchecked


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#38
Baldar, stop making these kinds of posts.

MV, if this stuff does come out, I think it will really hurt Rumsfeld. There is a real chance he could end up having to resign.
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#39
Anonymous24 Wrote:MV, if this stuff does come out, I think it will really hurt Rumsfeld. There is a real chance he could end up having to resign.

No, not over the jail abuse story. This would be too damaging to the entire war effort.

The great irony is that there are several real reasons to get rid of Rumsfeld and if it were not for this scandal, he might have been out already. Now he is protected---for a couple of weeks at least---and we are likely losing very valuable time which should go into building of a new strategy: something that Rumsfeld failed to do earlier and is very unlikely to do well when under attack.
Government is necessary because people left unchecked will do evil.

The government is composed of people left unchecked


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#40
Anonymous what kind of posts are you talking about? You are pretty free in your unsubstantiated attacks on Rumsfeld so why shouldn't I call you on it. Every single time I have asked for any kind of real evidence or example you fall back to a position similar to "because I said so". That just doesn't wash. So you are going to have to be more specific.

Is it my "not in this life comment"?

Is it my "The criticisms you seem to gleefully point at Rumsfeld " comment?

Is it my "(criticisms without any basis in fact I might add)" comment?

Or is it my "will also be muted by a perspective on the type of animals we have to deal with" comment.

I think all "not in this life" definately reflects the view.

The other three are a response to your rather vague and whispy accusations regarding the White House and its abuse. You are going to have to be more specific to be credible in you accusations. The question is can you be?

Haven't seem much of it yet.

Can you show us where Rumsfeld and Bush changed policy?

Can you show us where Bush or Rumsfeld specifically ordered the actions taken?

So far from the evidence presented there is absolutely no connection. Just because you don't like Rumsfeld or Bush is not sufficient reason.
"I detest the man who hides one thing in the depths of his heart and speaks forth another"
-Homer
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