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Honor Killing: Horror Under The Head Scarf
#41
Palladin,
In this thread we were discussing "Honor Killings", perhaps if this thread was about Islamic Terrorism toward non-Moslems, I would try to answer your question.
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#42
Kamil,

Gosh Kamil,we haven't brought that subject up ever before,have we?

Look,I used to have high regard for you,but you are just ignoring purposefully what is going on around the globe. It has lots to do with Islam.

Maybe not the one you were raised on,but that one doesn't resonate anywhere but Turkey.
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#43
Kamil, I appreciate your thoughtful comments. Perhaps honor killing is an artifact of tribal societies, but not Islam. But I have a question. You quote from certain segments of Islamic theocracy. Do other branches of Islamic theocracy share the same viewpoint? Are there branches of Islamic theocracy which maintain pre-medieval practices? I grant you that Christian dogma has many disparate spokesmen (some of whom seem to have frightened GG), and perhaps the same is true of Islam. However in today's world, Christianity seems to have gotten beyond its previous spasms of murderousness, while some Islamic societies seem stuck in the dark ages.
Jefferson: I place economy among the first and important virtues, and public debt as the greatest of dangers. To preserve our independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt. We must make our choice between economy and liberty, or profusion and servitude. If we can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of caring for them, they will be happy.
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#44
JT, there are two issues about Islam on this thread.
One is the stoning to death of two women after they were judged by the Sharia Court of Iran. I strongly condemn this action, and place the blame of it's occurrence on the Moslems who still follow the archaic laws of Religious Courts. There are very few Moslem Countries who still have this practice. As far as I know, Ottoman, and Central Asian Turks newer had this practice.

The other issue on this thread is "Honor Killing", there is no Islamic Country who permits this practice. If it happens in a Moslem Country where Sharia Court is in place, the perpetrators of this crime would be charged and judged for murder in the Sharia Court. Moslem countries with secular courts will treat this crime as any other murder case.
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#45
jt wrote:
Quote:(some of whom seem to have frightened GG),

Heavens no jt, I am not afraid in the least of Muslim violence against me or my familty. I live in Canada and the amount of harm that Canada has done to Muslim people is very minimal. If I was living in New York or another big US city I would maybe have a little more concerned for my family's safety because I believe that if US foreign policy continuew as it is, it's pretty much inevitable that Muslim terrorists will seek more revenge.

I feel as safe as a person living in Spain.
To be replaced with a signature of my own choice.
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#46
Here's some nice statistics, coming from one Islamic country: Nearly 1,000 Pakistani women ‘killed for honor’.

It would be interesting to have total scores for all countries with Muslims, in order get a pretty good idea of just how bad the numbers really are.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#47
I think Pakistan is one of the worse case. But nobody realy knows.
Anyway these horror killings speak volumes about the great and respectable poeple of Pakistan.
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#48
(03-23-2012, 03:41 PM)Fredledingue Wrote: I think Pakistan is one of the worse case. But nobody realy knows.
Anyway these horror killings speak volumes about the great and respectable poeple of Pakistan.
Of course, the honor killings are shameful, and mostly happen in Moslem Countries, including in Southeastern Turkey.
However, if you count lover and spousal killings of women, the USA has about equal kill rate of women as Moslem Countries.

In India dowry dispute killings are very high for women; I think last year 5000 women were killed by their in-laws for that reason.

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#49
(03-23-2012, 04:20 PM)Kamil Wrote:
(03-23-2012, 03:41 PM)Fredledingue Wrote: I think Pakistan is one of the worse case. But nobody realy knows.
Anyway these horror killings speak volumes about the great and respectable poeple of Pakistan.
Of course, the honor killings are shameful, and mostly happen in Moslem Countries, including in Southeastern Turkey.
However, if you count lover and spousal killings of women, the USA has about equal kill rate of women as Moslem Countries.

In India dowry dispute killings are very high for women; I think last year 5000 women were killed by their in-laws for that reason.

Kamil, I wonder what the numbers would reflect if 'lover and spousal killings' were also included in the mix for other countries on top of honour killings?

Since apples and oranges do not compute separately, why not add both apples and oranges together?
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#50
Wikipedia has the chart for murder rates by country.
I just checked a few countries
Looks like USA has a murder rate of 5 for 100,000 population, Turkey has 3.8 per 100,000, Iran has 2 per 100,000.
South American Countries are way up there.

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cou...icide_rate
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#51
The murder rate of Detroit and Flint, Michigan likely more than offsets the murder rate for the entire states of Montana, Wyoming, the Dakotas, Utah, and Idaho, etc.

I imagine the stats would be very accurate concerning Turkey perhaps? I mean, is the country more *uniform* than America is in terms of ethnicity and geography?
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#52
(03-24-2012, 12:16 AM)Gunnen4u Wrote: The murder rate of Detroit and Flint, Michigan likely more than offsets the murder rate for the entire states of Montana, Wyoming, the Dakotas, Utah, and Idaho, etc.

I imagine the stats would be very accurate concerning Turkey perhaps? I mean, is the country more *uniform* than America is in terms of ethnicity and geography?
About 40% of murders in Turkey happens in the Southeastern Turkey among Kurds mostly due to tribal blood feuds.
Kurds are about 12% of Turkish population.
I also heard that Blacks of USA who are about 15% of the USA population cause 50% of murders.
I think with time and similar upbringing the murder rates in a country will become more uniform among all the ethnic groups.

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#53
Perhaps. Or the more murderous groups will continue to function as murderously as they always have been. Unless you mean everyone becomes the same level of murderous of course.
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#54
Anyway, if you got out of Afghanistan, and Iraq, and instructed that miserable little country in the Middle East to shut the fcuk up, we would have far fewer honor killings by Muslims in Europe and the USA, just because they'd stop to immigrate to our countries. Who cares what they do in Pakistan? Or have you developed emotional bonds to virgins in Muslim countries? That's touching.
"You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." Dick Cheney
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#55
(03-24-2012, 12:40 PM)quadrat Wrote: Anyway, if you got out of Afghanistan, and Iraq, and instructed that miserable little country in the Middle East to shut the fcuk up, we would have far fewer honor killings by Muslims in Europe and the USA, just because they'd stop to immigrate to our countries. Who cares what they do in Pakistan? Or have you developed emotional bonds to virgins in Muslim countries? That's touching.

I think they'd keep immigrating due to other forces at play, but yea, I don't give a damn about most of the world's population.

I have to point out that it seems America is well-feminized enough that we have to be militant and use armed force to project it on other societies and cultures. I mean, who can argue with invading the women beaters, no matter what the cost or how relevant these people are to you? If you're against the war, you're AGAINST WOMEN'S RIGHTS.
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#56
Kamill Wrote:However, if you count lover and spousal killings of women, the USA has about equal kill rate of women as Moslem Countries.
..........
Looks like USA has a murder rate of 5 for 100,000 population, Turkey has 3.8 per 100,000, Iran has 2 per 100,000.
South American Countries are way up there.
Yes but as John said, it's like apples and oranges.

Why don't you argue while you are at it, that cars, drug dealers and boots selling cigarettes kill more in the West than execution of homosexuals in muslim countries?

Fisrt, Honnor killing is not considered a murder by the poeple who commit it. Whereas the drunkar who kill his unfaithful whife in Detroit knows very well he is commiting a murder and live nonetheless in place where such act is a crime. In some muslim areas it's not a crime: they do it to preserve the honnor of the family.
In one way some poeple think it's good to murder for that reason.

The second thing is that honor killing is not about a woman who betray her husband, but who faithfuly love her should-be husband and refuse to marry a man she doesn't love. This is highly immoral.

Thirdly, it's organized crime, not the fact of an isolated violent person who's murder is often not premeditated. Honor killing are decided and commited by several poeple with the aproval of even more poeple.
There isn't only one murderer, there are at 3, 5, 10...

Fourthly there is the agravating circumstance that the murder is often commited by the brother of the victim with the aproval and sometimes participation of her father and mother.
The very persons supposed to protect and love her.
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#57
(03-24-2012, 01:44 PM)Gunnen4u Wrote: I have to point out that it seems America is well-feminized enough that we have to be militant and use armed force to project it on other societies and cultures. I mean, who can argue with invading the women beaters, no matter what the cost or how relevant these people are to you? If you're against the war, you're AGAINST WOMEN'S RIGHTS.

I bet they chose a beating by Muslim men over being shot by a Christian special-forces lady. And western feminists would probably agree with that.
"You know, Paul, Reagan proved that deficits don't matter." Dick Cheney
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#58
Honor killings continue to be a stain on Islam and are not in accordance with Islamic teachings. Unfortunately mist Imams do not speak out against it since it is often an accepted part of society in many Muslim countries. It is less accepted in more moderate countries such as Turkey, but I believe it in increasing as the Islamists increase their influence.

One thing that skews the figures in murder statistics is often honor killings are not reported as murders. Many girls seem to have died of natural causes after accidentally inflicted knife wounds to the neck area.

As for Q, the flood of immigrants to Europe and the USA have nothing to do with the US presence in Iraq and Afghanistan. Iraq has seen an increasing flood of Iraqis leaving the country after the US military has departed.
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