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Chavez turning Venezuela into a socialist state
#1
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,242418,00.html

He's going to nationalize Venezuela's energy and going to amend his constitution. I wonder if there will be a vote on it? :roll: Atleast this guy is open about what he does, he hasn't packed their courts with activist judges like others. :roll: Hye isn't that what democrats want to do, nationalize everything? Maybe they should follow in Hugo Chavez's foot steps.

This makes my prediction of civil war in Venezuela closer to becoming true. We need to drill for oil here in our country. As Hugo nationalizes everything his country will enter chaos and his oil won't be reliable.
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#2
It just goes to show, that not all idiots are sequestered on US college campuses. Some still manage to escape and run wild. Wink1

I too received this alert from FEE. Here is a nice article of past days, concering State planning and ownership. I wonder when these brilliant Idiots will ever learn?

Here is a timely classic from Dr David Kelley on the failure of economic planning, and how collectivism simply cannot compete with Free Enterprise And individual liberty. It is very long, but well worth the read. I shall only paste the beginning here.


Quote: The Bases of Economic Planning
By David Kelley



Dr. Kelley Is Assistant Professor in the Department of Philosophy at Vassar College.

Liberals and socialists share a vision of a planned economy. It is a vision of order, extending to economic matters the rational foresight that is the glory of our nature: weighing and ranking our needs by intelligent deliberation, allocating resources with scientific efficiency to satisfy those needs. The concept of economic planning wears a public face of dedication to reason. Behind the face, however, lies a deep-seated philosophical hostility toward reason.

The concept originated with the socialists of the nineteenth century, principally Karl Marx. Marx complained that while man had achieved control over the forces of nature, and bent them to his ends, he was still the pawn of economic forces. The movements of supply and demand determine prices, wages, profits; they determine the investment of capital and the allocation of resources; yet they operate outside anyone's control. No attempt is made, in a capitalist system, to direct these forces to our ends. To allow this, he said, is to abandon the methods we use in controlling nature—it is to abandon reason.

Since these forces arise from voluntary exchanges between individuals, each acting as an independent agent, Marx wanted to eliminate that system. There would be instead only one economic agent: the state, and it would act by consciously deciding the allocation of resources: that is, by economic planning.' As his collaborator Engels put it: "In making itself the master of all the means of production to use them in

accordance with a social plan, society puts an end to the former subjection of men to their own means of production [i.e., to the marketplace]."2
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#3
The energy sector was nationalized long ago. It's called PDVSA.

I doubt his rhetoric is matched even by serious effort myself. Venezuela is no banana republic and has a large middle class.
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#4
That middle class is what's going to oppose him. I'm telling you there's going to be civil war.
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#5
Indy,

Might be,I hope not. What I feel will occur is the Venezuelans will leave the nation that are not into this nonsense. They'll relocate all over South & North America. Venezuela will go from fairly prosperous to a disaster zone.
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#6
Palladin Wrote:Indy,

Might be,I hope not. What I feel will occur is the Venezuelans will leave the nation that are not into this nonsense. They'll relocate all over South & North America. Venezuela will go from fairly prosperous to a disaster zone.
----------------------------
Well. Venezuela still have plenty of oil.

They will stay fairly prosperous even with this decision to nationalize the energy sector.

But some will leave the country, in that you are right. But there will be no civil war in Venezuela and Chavez has enough supporters to back him up for long times yet.

/track_snake
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#7
Yeah but the productive class will have their wealth stolen. This will cause them to leave or fight, either way Chavez's economic power goes with it.
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#8
Independents4Bush Wrote:Yeah but the productive class will have their wealth stolen. This will cause them to leave or fight, either way Chavez's economic power goes with it.
------------------------------------------
Well. I suppose that the state will pay compensations for the owners of oil companies when nationalizing.

/track_snake
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#9
No sir that's not who I refer to. I'm refering to middle class workers. Not the owners of oil companies.
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#10
It's going to be a mess! Socialism doesn't EVER work. This Ugo character should be on college campus, where he belongs. Wink1

He's a Buggering Idiot.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#11
The oil revenue,as we readily saw in Iraq,can be frittered away and what to show ot it all? Venezuela had become fairly prosperous and with socialism would become less so.

Mexico sells more oil,look at that dump.
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#12
Here's another article on the same thing:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/0...index.html

63% of the country voted for him, and he made no secret that he was going to continue the journey toward socialism.

I hope they are successful.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.
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#13
Yes sTroll since it has succeeded in so many other countries. 63% of the country voted for him, here's some more numbers, he had 23 hours of himself on television and his opponent was limited to minutes a day. You think that's fair? Maybe some of that 63% would have gone to the other guy with a more balanced portion of time. Perhaps people who didn't vote would have came out and voted for the other guy.
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#14
stroll Wrote:Here's another article on the same thing:
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/0...index.html

63% of the country voted for him, and he made no secret that he was going to continue the journey toward socialism.

I hope they are successful.

No matter the outcome, they will not be successful, in the long run. Socialism/Collectivism does not work, when it has to compete with Free Enterprise. Of course, you should know this. You are either stupid, or trying to troll again. I suspect the later.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#15
Well, yet another ad-hominem attack which is unrelated to the topic at hand...

Your "free-market" ideology was proven wrong by history 100 years ago, pal, would it be reasonable to conclude all you are doing here is "trolling"? :roll:
-and of course, as the admin, you are at liberty to do so, as well as alleging other posters use underage kids for sex and the like... :x

Re. Chavez: Nationalized oil is giving Venezuelans the cheapest gasoline on the planet. Resources should benefit the nation...not a small select cabal of industrialists.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.
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#16
Free market proven wrong 100 years ago? You hear that John, you and I must be living in poverty. I should call off my garage sale, selling a lot of my stuff on ebay because I must be poor and broke. This abundance of wealth and material I have must be a mirage. Shock
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#17
John L Wrote:It's going to be a mess! Socialism doesn't EVER work. This Ugo character should be on college campus, where he belongs. Wink1

He's a Buggering Idiot.
------------------------------------
Well. But still socialism is the dream of many young people around the world. But I agree, it is nothing for old guys like you and me....

/track_snake
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#18
Palladin Wrote:The oil revenue,as we readily saw in Iraq,can be frittered away and what to show ot it all? Venezuela had become fairly prosperous and with socialism would become less so.

Mexico sells more oil,look at that dump.
--------------------------------------------------------
Well. It is obvious that oil money does not help always. Look at Nigeria, where goes all the oil money? Yes. Graft and corruption. And Iraq?

But Venezuela has so far put a decent share back in rural development, health care, education and infrastructure.

/track_snake
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#19
track_snake Wrote:
Palladin Wrote:The oil revenue,as we readily saw in Iraq,can be frittered away and what to show ot it all? Venezuela had become fairly prosperous and with socialism would become less so.

Mexico sells more oil,look at that dump.
--------------------------------------------------------
Well. It is obvious that oil money does not help always. Look at Nigeria, where goes all the oil money? Yes. Graft and corruption. And Iraq?

But Venezuela has so far put a decent share back in rural development, health care, education and infrastructure.

/track_snake

The oil business in Venezuela is faltering. The industry was shocked earlier this year when PDVSA announced that it would be purchasing 100 million barrels of crude from Russia in order to meet its commitments to other buyers around the world. Chavez has managed, with all of his naive (or cynical) appeal to populism, to purge many of his educated and technical people within the production sector.
"Most people just want tomorrow to look pretty much like today." - Terry Pratchett
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#20
stroll Wrote:Well, yet another ad-hominem attack which is unrelated to the topic at hand...

Your "free-market" ideology was proven wrong by history 100 years ago, pal, would it be reasonable to conclude all you are doing here is "trolling"? :roll:
-and of course, as the admin, you are at liberty to do so, as well as alleging other posters use underage kids for sex and the like... :x

Re. Chavez: Nationalized oil is giving Venezuelans the cheapest gasoline on the planet. Resources should benefit the nation...not a small select cabal of industrialists.

No ad-hominem attack there. I stated that you were either one or the other, and that I believed the later. If that is an attack, then so be it.

BTY, there appears to be someone here, who does not like the word "Johnny". He/she keeps deleting posts that contain it, I wouldn't know why, of course. Just though I would give you a "heads up" Komrade. Wink1

Now, go forth and sin no more.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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