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Kurds May Form Regional Force
#1
http//www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/06/front2453944.4326388887.html
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#2
the kurds are the most pro-US people in b/t europe and japan....we need to work with them more.

It would be to our advantage is we could help establish a kurdish state.
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#3
See, I told all of you that a soverigh Kurdistan was only a matter of time! Have you seen the advertisements on Fox lately? They are about to launch a PR campaign that will make it far easier to seek independence.

Bush and his advisors should have divided Iraq into at least three entities, possibly five, adding the Assyrians and Turkmen to the mix along with the Kurds, Sunnis, and Shia. It's going to happen anyway, so why the screwup?

Mark my words, Iraq will never last as one piece. it's only a matter of time.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#4
John L Wrote:See, I told all of you that a soverigh Kurdistan was only a matter of time! Have you seen the advertisements on Fox lately? They are about to launch a PR campaign that will make it far easier to seek independence.

Bush and his advisors should have divided Iraq into at least three entities, possibly five, adding the Assyrians and Turkmen to the mix along with the Kurds, Sunnis, and Shia. It's going to happen anyway, so why the screwup?

Mark my words, Iraq will never last as one piece. it's only a matter of time.

totally agree...The center portion of sunnis will get the short end of the stick, b/c they have no oil though, therefore, it could be difficult to get them to sign on.

Also if they seperated the rich southern oil fields in Shi'ite territory, Iran could tighten a grip on the region S4

take a look at this if you haven't already John

http://www.armedforcesjournal.com/2006/06/1833899

look at the map #2 on the right side.
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#5
John,

I would arm the Kurds with the best we have and let's see if the Turks want to enter Kurdistan to fight or act like Hezzbollah terrorists like they did last night? If the Turks are going to be just another terror supporting state, we should start arming the Turk Kurds.

http//inbrief.threatswatch.org/2006/07/turkish-troops-cross-iraq-bord/
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#6
Truely a GREAT article. Col Peters is a very wise individual, and I read all his articles, and look for him on Fox all the time. He is a real schollar, and on this he is correct as usual.

I'll read the second half in a little while, AND bookmark the article, along with the maps.

Anyone with a degree of wisdom can clearly see that the makeup of boundries are not workable, and will clealy result in untold innocent lives before things finally shake out.

I am convinced that while the 21st century may not be as bad as the 20th, world war wise, it will by far be the bloodiest. It is possible and probably a given that the number of independent states will double before the end of the century, and almost all of them will not end peacefully, as that of Czechoslovakia, which will be the exception rather than the rule.

Look for some of the mightiest nations to split up, including India, Russia, China, and Indonesia. It's only a matter of time.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#7
Palladin Wrote:John,

I would arm the Kurds with the best we have and let's see if the Turks want to enter Kurdistan to fight or act like Hezzbollah terrorists like they did last night? If the Turks are going to be just another terror supporting state, we should start arming the Turk Kurds.

http://inbrief.threatswatch.org/2006/07/...iraq-bord/

Turkey will eventually have to learn that if they wish to remain whole, they had better learn to cooperate with the Kurds, who will not forget what has happened to them, once they gain their sovereignty. There is a lot of Kurdish territory in Turkey, so they had best make them comfortable and treat them well, or they will also break away and form that one entity that WILL eventually happen.

Also, look for Iran to also be divided as well.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#8
That's a huge disloyal cancer to have within the state.

I doubt freeing them would help,Kurds flat dislike Turks according to Jedburgh.
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#9
Palladin Wrote:That's a huge disloyal cancer to have within the state.

I doubt freeing them would help,Kurds flat dislike Turks according to Jedburgh.

Agreed!

And speaking of Jedburgh. Where?
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#10
I wish he were here.
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#11
I just sent him an e-mail. It may or may not get to him. If the address he provided was temporaty, he will not get it. That's the best I can do.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#12
John L Wrote:Truely a GREAT article. Col Peters is a very wise individual, and I read all his articles, and look for him on Fox all the time. He is a real schollar, and on this he is correct as usual.

I'll read the second half in a little while, AND bookmark the article, along with the maps.

Anyone with a degree of wisdom can clearly see that the makeup of boundries are not workable, and will clealy result in untold innocent lives before things finally shake out.

I am convinced that while the 21st century may not be as bad as the 20th, world war wise, it will by far be the bloodiest. It is possible and probably a given that the number of independent states will double before the end of the century, and almost all of them will not end peacefully, as that of Czechoslovakia, which will be the exception rather than the rule.

Look for some of the mightiest nations to split up, including India, Russia, China, and Indonesia. It's only a matter of time.

How so?....Russia? I can see them killing their population before they allow a portion to cede off. Same for China.

India's gov't seems a little different...okay a lot different, but who would want to split off? I know it has amuslim population, but enough to warrant a seperate state?
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#13
Turkey might lightly protest for forming a Kurdish State in N. Iraq, but there would be no serious problems.

Since Jalal Talabani wants to establish close ties with Iran, and bring Iranian companies and workers to his region, I think they will get along with Iranians too.

From: http://www.mehrnews.com/en/NewsDetail.aspx?NewsID=30770

Quote:Iran’s Role in Reconstruction of Iraq Important: Talibani
TEHRAN October 14 (Mehr News Agency) – Speaking upon his arrival at the Mehr-Abad Airport, leader of Patriotic Union of Kurdistan (PUK) Jalal Talibani described Iran’s participation in the reconstruction of Iraq as crucial.
“Unlike U.S. claims, there is no evidence of Iranian interference in Iraq,” he said.

“We are seeking ways of communicating with every Iranian company,” he added.

Current bilateral ties are propitious for a strong economic line between Kermanshah, western Iran and Iraqi Kurdish city of Suleimanieh, Talibani stated, pointing to the availability of projects in Iraq.


“We do not intend to separate Iraq from other Muslim nations,” he said.

“The Temporary Leadership Council of Iraq is looking for ways to improve its multilateral ties with Islamic countries,” he stressed.

However, Arabs will never forgive USA if Iraq is broken into several independent states.
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#14
neocon234 Wrote:
John L Wrote:Truely a GREAT article. Col Peters is a very wise individual, and I read all his articles, and look for him on Fox all the time. He is a real schollar, and on this he is correct as usual.

I'll read the second half in a little while, AND bookmark the article, along with the maps.

Anyone with a degree of wisdom can clearly see that the makeup of boundries are not workable, and will clealy result in untold innocent lives before things finally shake out.

I am convinced that while the 21st century may not be as bad as the 20th, world war wise, it will by far be the bloodiest. It is possible and probably a given that the number of independent states will double before the end of the century, and almost all of them will not end peacefully, as that of Czechoslovakia, which will be the exception rather than the rule.

Look for some of the mightiest nations to split up, including India, Russia, China, and Indonesia. It's only a matter of time.

How so?....Russia? I can see them killing their population before they allow a portion to cede off. Same for China.

India's gov't seems a little different...okay a lot different, but who would want to split off? I know it has amuslim population, but enough to warrant a seperate state?

Any country that is unable to provide for it's citizenry, and allow them to participate in it's running, will feel disenfranchised. If the size of the state is not able to act efficiently, honestly, and fairly, it is too big for it's, and it's citizen's, own good. Thus they will tend to break down into a smaller unit that will allow for this.

It's sort of the Peter Principle in reverse. Large countries tend to devolve into their lowest effective size. What I have always called it was "Lowest Common Functional Denominator". If things don't work, then make it smaller until it does. I think that the US, by virtue of it's Constitution, is in much less danger of this. And too, I am convinced that things will slowly work their way back to what Jefferson envisioned in the first place. The only difference will be that instead of many farm entities, there will be many IT hubs. The end result will still be a more efficient, and benevolent government.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#15
Kamil Wrote:However, Arabs will never forgive USA if Iraq is broken into several independent states.

Doesn't matter: it's going to eventually happen, and for the better. I don't see where we will get the long term blame, since we oppose it.

Besides, who cares what others think in the short run. It is the long term, strategic, timetable that really counts anyway.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#16
There is not 1 Arab who sides with the USA in this grand conflict,so why would an American even concern himself with what Arabs thought?
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#17
Palladin Wrote:There is not 1 Arab who sides with the USA in this grand conflict,so why would an American even concern himself with what Arabs thought?

sure there is
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#18
If we allow Iraq to split Bin Laden would be right and we can never stand up to him in the batttle of ideas with credability. Remember UBL said we would invade Iraq and split it. It doesn't matter how difficult or bloody it is the consequences of failing in Iraq will be more painful, more difficult and more bloody than if we stay however long it takes and walk over as much glass as it takes to have a free, independent, prosperous, united, friendly nation. If Iraq is split we failed. It comes down to this do we want to sacrifice tens of thousands now or millions in the future.
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#19
See Neocon, I told you that we don't agree on everything as you suggested. S6

I completely disagree with D4B here. It would not be a loss, and it is going to happen eventually. So, if we do things based on what other will say or do, we have no moral authority in the first place.

And as the saying goes, you can pay now, or pay later. And the later cost will definately be more expensive. D4B and I agree on that one.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________
"INSIDE EVERY PROGRESSIVE IS A TOTALITARIAN SCREAMING TO GET OUT" - David Horowitz

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#20
Darn it you're hard to argue with. I've met my match. :lol:

Ok here where you're wrong John. UBL was not making a moral proclamation he was making a prediction or even an analytical prediction. Much like President Bush who said Iraq would be a democracy and that democracy would bring down the tyrants in the region thus defeating terrorism.

Whoever is right or wrong in their proclamations will have their side's morale boost through the air. They would have gained not moral credibility but strategic credability. After Bush says Iraq will be a democracy, bring down tyrants and defeat terrorism when we succeed in Iraq and other tyrants start to weaken, terrorists will know he was right and now we're going to lose. If after UBL says they will invade Iraq and split it and Iraq is split UBL will now be believed on what he says not morally but strategically and many more people would be willing to put their eggs in his basket.

Remember after 9/11 many jihadist became upset with UBL because that attack caused them to lose a base in Afghanistan and started an offensive against them. He lost strategic credability and that explains why many were willing to follow Zarqawi into Iraq and ignore Bin Laden's urges to focus on Americans and not Iraqis. Thats right they disobeyed the shiek himself because they no longer trusted his strategic judgement. If Iraq splits they will once again trust his strategic judgement.

If Iraq stays united and tyrants begin to crumble how the heck can anyone in their minds believe we were not winning the war against islamic fascist and their supporters. Bush can always tell our troops, the American people and the world I was right about Iraq and you were wrong and others will lose morale.

Hah beat that John, I challenge you. S2

Quote:And as the saying goes, you can pay now, or pay later. And the later cost will definately be more expensive. D4B and I agree on that one.

Yes I do agree because I stated a couple of minutes ago elsewhere lol. :lol: However you're not applying the concept correctly on this one.
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